I hate Mom Cliques

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

Why do you care if people like OP think the over sharers are jerks?

She posted on an anonymous board for comments. So…that’s how it works

Exactly. And many agree with OP but people are chiming in to say just look away. So people are commenting on that as well. If people can ask why OP cares about any of this, then the social media defenders can be questioned as well. I think the social media defenders don't like the idea that people are judging them for what they post.

You are questioning people for simply replying to the post- which is the whole purpose of starting a thread here- to get replies

I'm asking a question. Which is also a form of reply. Why don't you just answer the question? Why do you care if people like OP can't stand the mom clique people posting kindergarten play dates? What's with the "grow up" answers? Why don't these people explain what they get out of sharing to family and friends flung far and wide pics from an exclusive kindergarten play date? Distant family surely don't care about kids they don't know. But your classmates parents might wonder why they weren't invited. The "Grow up" or "don't look" posters aren't being helpful or insightful whatsoever with their pithy comments.

The problem is you. You view it as an exclusive play date. They view it as their kids and friends going out and having fun.

OP's kid was their kids' friend. End of the year gatherings usually involve inviting your child's regular friends (not all the kids in the class.) To not invite this child seems strange.

That is OP’s interpretation. Surely there are other regular friends that weren’t there as well, whatever that means. I assure you these girls aren’t doing everything together, always, anytime there is a gathering. This is normal and acceptable and not mean

I mean, I trust OP more to describe an event that happened in her own life than you. She says this was a group of girls her DD hung out with all year, and that her DD was the only member of the group not invited. If that's what she says, I believe her.

Also, a big issue with these conversations is how "mean" is defined. I don't think these women got together and decided "let's do something fun for the girls on the last day of school, but let's make sure not to invite Larla because her mom isn't part of our crew." I don't think OP thinks that's what happened either. She doesn't even use the term "mean". She's just saying it sucks because these moms are all friendly with each other and not necessarily with her (note she doesn't complain about this, it' just how it is) and as a result, her DD got left out of a fun activity with them.

OP's whole complaint is that at this age, kids rely mostly on their parents for arranging social engagements outside school, which means OP not being buddies with these women is a liability for her daughter.

It would have been nice for one of these women to think "hey the girls have been spending a lot of time with Larla this year, let's invite her -- I know we don't know her mom very well but this more for the girls." It's not necessarily mean NOT to do this, but it would have been the inclusive thing to do. For the record, it's what I'd probably do in that situation.

You are reading a bunch of nastiness into OP's post that isn't there. She's just saying the dynamic is a bummer. And it is, specifically for her daughter, who was left out of something her friends did only because of the social dynamics of the adults.

OP did say “4 or 5 girls” in the opening post, which made me think that there was at least a little wiggle room here. It might seem like a minor detail, but if it’s 4 or 5 girls, that means that this is not always the same exact group getting together for everything.

If OP had said these kids were in 4th grade, I would think differently of the whole situation. These kids just finished kindergarten and are pretty young to be tallying who is going to which play dates. OP said her daughter is “clueless” but OP is the one who is mad at being left out.

OP, what is your goal here? Is it to help your daughter cultivate friendships? Or to be included by the other moms of your daughter’s friends? Getting mad at being left out will accomplish neither.

Adding that I’ll guess that everyone with a child past elementary school has had a few or many experiences in which the child and/or the parent has been not invited to a party, not included on a play date, etc, when they expected to be invited. It happens all the time. You have to move on or you will become bitter, or even worse, teach your child to become bitter.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

THIS

All the context indicates that OP's daughter was pointedly excluded because one or some of the moms do not like OP. Cliquishness is more noticeable to people who are more social (in real life and on the internet) and people who are generally very observant.

People involved in high-demand religions (like Mormonism) or who attend popular mega churches often complain about church cliques. Private schools are also rife with them. They exist in toxic workplaces where nepotism plays a big part in promotion. Posters on this thread trying to gaslight OP are either the usual suspect excluders, or anti-social types who don't notice their surroundings. I am anti-social and not a joiner, but I definitely notice cliques and hangers-on.

+1 and to be more explicit: cliques resource hoard. That's the main difference between a clique and a friend group. Friend groups don't have to include everyone, and can be amorphous, and people have to figure out how to deal with their feelings about that.

But a clique operates as a gatekeeper to resources or hierarchies. Parent cliques in elementary schools can be really harmful in this way. There was a strong clique in the PTA at our elementary school made ups of parents of older children, and they'd resource hoard for their kids. I had a child in a class with a bunch of the "younger siblings" from those families, and there were weird things that went on where, for instance, their kids were always selected for extra tutoring from teachers even if the child was testing above grade level. It's not even that I wanted my kid to go in for extra tutoring, but of course this group also became better friends because they spent more time together after school, and the teachers got to know them better because they were tutoring them. It created a caste system among the kids that was disturbing. We left that school to get away from it and my children are so much happier with a lot less social anxiety or stress.

What OP is describing doesn't rise to that level, but the people in this thread who are rolling their eyes at the whole idea of cliques, or that they don't exist in adult communities, are kidding themselves. Either you've been fortunate to avoid communities with cliques, or you are in one and like it how it is. But yes, this happens.

OMG, read your post. You sound insane. This was not happening, you just have a chip on your shoulder because your kid wasn't as smart as other kids.

Whatever you need to believe, I guess. This sort of thing happens all the time. People become myopic about their kids and a lot of people lack the self-awareness to understand when they are abusing power. I've also known people on the PTA to justify stuff like this to themselves because it's how they "pay" themselves back for the time they donate to the PTA. They view this sort of advantage as one of the "perks" of the job.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

Why do you care if people like OP think the over sharers are jerks?

She posted on an anonymous board for comments. So…that’s how it works

Exactly. And many agree with OP but people are chiming in to say just look away. So people are commenting on that as well. If people can ask why OP cares about any of this, then the social media defenders can be questioned as well. I think the social media defenders don't like the idea that people are judging them for what they post.

You are questioning people for simply replying to the post- which is the whole purpose of starting a thread here- to get replies

I'm asking a question. Which is also a form of reply. Why don't you just answer the question? Why do you care if people like OP can't stand the mom clique people posting kindergarten play dates? What's with the "grow up" answers? Why don't these people explain what they get out of sharing to family and friends flung far and wide pics from an exclusive kindergarten play date? Distant family surely don't care about kids they don't know. But your classmates parents might wonder why they weren't invited. The "Grow up" or "don't look" posters aren't being helpful or insightful whatsoever with their pithy comments.

The problem is you. You view it as an exclusive play date. They view it as their kids and friends going out and having fun.

OP's kid was their kids' friend. End of the year gatherings usually involve inviting your child's regular friends (not all the kids in the class.) To not invite this child seems strange.

That is OP’s interpretation. Surely there are other regular friends that weren’t there as well, whatever that means. I assure you these girls aren’t doing everything together, always, anytime there is a gathering. This is normal and acceptable and not mean

I mean, I trust OP more to describe an event that happened in her own life than you. She says this was a group of girls her DD hung out with all year, and that her DD was the only member of the group not invited. If that's what she says, I believe her.

Also, a big issue with these conversations is how "mean" is defined. I don't think these women got together and decided "let's do something fun for the girls on the last day of school, but let's make sure not to invite Larla because her mom isn't part of our crew." I don't think OP thinks that's what happened either. She doesn't even use the term "mean". She's just saying it sucks because these moms are all friendly with each other and not necessarily with her (note she doesn't complain about this, it' just how it is) and as a result, her DD got left out of a fun activity with them.

OP's whole complaint is that at this age, kids rely mostly on their parents for arranging social engagements outside school, which means OP not being buddies with these women is a liability for her daughter.

It would have been nice for one of these women to think "hey the girls have been spending a lot of time with Larla this year, let's invite her -- I know we don't know her mom very well but this more for the girls." It's not necessarily mean NOT to do this, but it would have been the inclusive thing to do. For the record, it's what I'd probably do in that situation.

You are reading a bunch of nastiness into OP's post that isn't there. She's just saying the dynamic is a bummer. And it is, specifically for her daughter, who was left out of something her friends did only because of the social dynamics of the adults.

Not reading any nastiness into OP. Just pointing out OP has no idea about the social lives of other girls. And whom they get together with and when. Just because her daughter plays with them sometimes, in way obligates the parents to invite her every time. They all have social lives outside of her daughter. There is no group. These are all individuals and they are not bound to each other

We're talking about kindergarteners here. I actually think OP probably has a relatively good sense of the social lives of these kids -- their lives are very regimented and they are together in school all day.

I am betting if all these kids were in soccer together and not with OP's DD, and she saw something about a post-soccer get together, she wouldn't think anything of it. I think the issue was that this was a group her DD hung out with at school all year, and they all celebrated the end of school together but didn't invite her DD. That's all.

As kids get older, there is a lot more about social dynamics that parents don't know, and kids aren't necessarily in the same classroom all day plus activities become more significant. But at kindergarten, you basically know, especially in this specific situation.

It's okay for OP to feel bad about it.

Maybe they see each other a lot more than than see OPs daughter. Maybe the girls and the moms just don’t feel a strong connection with OP and her DD. It doesn’t really matter. The point is, it is simply a gathering a friends. It doesn’t make them a clique bc they didn’t invite you and you feel you are entitled to be there. It isn’t exclusive since OPs daughter sometimes plays with them outside of school. But maybe other kids do too and they weren’t there either.

You have no idea if this is a clique or not. Your defense of this is bizarre.

Neither does OP. When her daughter is included it is a group of friends, when she’s not, it’s a clique.

The difference is simply if you feel entitled to be a part of something and aren’t, then it gets labeled a clique

What you call "entitlement" may simply have been a feeling of belonging. Everybody likes to belong and few people like being confronted with the evidence that they don't belong or were excluded. It's better to be inclusive than exclusive. If you're keeping your group small and private you should also not blast it on social media or things like this happen. It used to be common manners to not talk to people about parties they weren't invited to now people do the opposite because hurt feelings are a natural byproduct to those left out.

all the bolded. I know we can't "police people's social media" but we can certainly start calling out this behavior so that it's not as common.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

Why do you care if people like OP think the over sharers are jerks?

She posted on an anonymous board for comments. So…that’s how it works

Exactly. And many agree with OP but people are chiming in to say just look away. So people are commenting on that as well. If people can ask why OP cares about any of this, then the social media defenders can be questioned as well. I think the social media defenders don't like the idea that people are judging them for what they post.

You are questioning people for simply replying to the post- which is the whole purpose of starting a thread here- to get replies

I'm asking a question. Which is also a form of reply. Why don't you just answer the question? Why do you care if people like OP can't stand the mom clique people posting kindergarten play dates? What's with the "grow up" answers? Why don't these people explain what they get out of sharing to family and friends flung far and wide pics from an exclusive kindergarten play date? Distant family surely don't care about kids they don't know. But your classmates parents might wonder why they weren't invited. The "Grow up" or "don't look" posters aren't being helpful or insightful whatsoever with their pithy comments.

The problem is you. You view it as an exclusive play date. They view it as their kids and friends going out and having fun.

OP's kid was their kids' friend. End of the year gatherings usually involve inviting your child's regular friends (not all the kids in the class.) To not invite this child seems strange.

That is OP’s interpretation. Surely there are other regular friends that weren’t there as well, whatever that means. I assure you these girls aren’t doing everything together, always, anytime there is a gathering. This is normal and acceptable and not mean

I mean, I trust OP more to describe an event that happened in her own life than you. She says this was a group of girls her DD hung out with all year, and that her DD was the only member of the group not invited. If that's what she says, I believe her.

Also, a big issue with these conversations is how "mean" is defined. I don't think these women got together and decided "let's do something fun for the girls on the last day of school, but let's make sure not to invite Larla because her mom isn't part of our crew." I don't think OP thinks that's what happened either. She doesn't even use the term "mean". She's just saying it sucks because these moms are all friendly with each other and not necessarily with her (note she doesn't complain about this, it' just how it is) and as a result, her DD got left out of a fun activity with them.

OP's whole complaint is that at this age, kids rely mostly on their parents for arranging social engagements outside school, which means OP not being buddies with these women is a liability for her daughter.

It would have been nice for one of these women to think "hey the girls have been spending a lot of time with Larla this year, let's invite her -- I know we don't know her mom very well but this more for the girls." It's not necessarily mean NOT to do this, but it would have been the inclusive thing to do. For the record, it's what I'd probably do in that situation.

You are reading a bunch of nastiness into OP's post that isn't there. She's just saying the dynamic is a bummer. And it is, specifically for her daughter, who was left out of something her friends did only because of the social dynamics of the adults.

Not reading any nastiness into OP. Just pointing out OP has no idea about the social lives of other girls. And whom they get together with and when. Just because her daughter plays with them sometimes, in way obligates the parents to invite her every time. They all have social lives outside of her daughter. There is no group. These are all individuals and they are not bound to each other

We're talking about kindergarteners here. I actually think OP probably has a relatively good sense of the social lives of these kids -- their lives are very regimented and they are together in school all day.

I am betting if all these kids were in soccer together and not with OP's DD, and she saw something about a post-soccer get together, she wouldn't think anything of it. I think the issue was that this was a group her DD hung out with at school all year, and they all celebrated the end of school together but didn't invite her DD. That's all.

As kids get older, there is a lot more about social dynamics that parents don't know, and kids aren't necessarily in the same classroom all day plus activities become more significant. But at kindergarten, you basically know, especially in this specific situation.

It's okay for OP to feel bad about it.

Maybe they see each other a lot more than than see OPs daughter. Maybe the girls and the moms just don’t feel a strong connection with OP and her DD. It doesn’t really matter. The point is, it is simply a gathering a friends. It doesn’t make them a clique bc they didn’t invite you and you feel you are entitled to be there. It isn’t exclusive since OPs daughter sometimes plays with them outside of school. But maybe other kids do too and they weren’t there either.

You have no idea if this is a clique or not. Your defense of this is bizarre.

Neither does OP. When her daughter is included it is a group of friends, when she’s not, it’s a clique.

The difference is simply if you feel entitled to be a part of something and aren’t, then it gets labeled a clique

What you call "entitlement" may simply have been a feeling of belonging. Everybody likes to belong and few people like being confronted with the evidence that they don't belong or were excluded. It's better to be inclusive than exclusive. If you're keeping your group small and private you should also not blast it on social media or things like this happen. It used to be common manners to not talk to people about parties they weren't invited to now people do the opposite because hurt feelings are a natural byproduct to those left out.

all the bolded. I know we can't "police people's social media" but we can certainly start calling out this behavior so that it's not as common.

Guarantee OP knows these moms post a lot of pictures on social media and wouldn’t have cared about the poor manners of it, had her daughter also been in the picture.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

Why do you care if people like OP think the over sharers are jerks?

She posted on an anonymous board for comments. So…that’s how it works

Exactly. And many agree with OP but people are chiming in to say just look away. So people are commenting on that as well. If people can ask why OP cares about any of this, then the social media defenders can be questioned as well. I think the social media defenders don't like the idea that people are judging them for what they post.

You are questioning people for simply replying to the post- which is the whole purpose of starting a thread here- to get replies

I'm asking a question. Which is also a form of reply. Why don't you just answer the question? Why do you care if people like OP can't stand the mom clique people posting kindergarten play dates? What's with the "grow up" answers? Why don't these people explain what they get out of sharing to family and friends flung far and wide pics from an exclusive kindergarten play date? Distant family surely don't care about kids they don't know. But your classmates parents might wonder why they weren't invited. The "Grow up" or "don't look" posters aren't being helpful or insightful whatsoever with their pithy comments.

The problem is you. You view it as an exclusive play date. They view it as their kids and friends going out and having fun.

OP's kid was their kids' friend. End of the year gatherings usually involve inviting your child's regular friends (not all the kids in the class.) To not invite this child seems strange.

That is OP’s interpretation. Surely there are other regular friends that weren’t there as well, whatever that means. I assure you these girls aren’t doing everything together, always, anytime there is a gathering. This is normal and acceptable and not mean

I mean, I trust OP more to describe an event that happened in her own life than you. She says this was a group of girls her DD hung out with all year, and that her DD was the only member of the group not invited. If that's what she says, I believe her.

Also, a big issue with these conversations is how "mean" is defined. I don't think these women got together and decided "let's do something fun for the girls on the last day of school, but let's make sure not to invite Larla because her mom isn't part of our crew." I don't think OP thinks that's what happened either. She doesn't even use the term "mean". She's just saying it sucks because these moms are all friendly with each other and not necessarily with her (note she doesn't complain about this, it' just how it is) and as a result, her DD got left out of a fun activity with them.

OP's whole complaint is that at this age, kids rely mostly on their parents for arranging social engagements outside school, which means OP not being buddies with these women is a liability for her daughter.

It would have been nice for one of these women to think "hey the girls have been spending a lot of time with Larla this year, let's invite her -- I know we don't know her mom very well but this more for the girls." It's not necessarily mean NOT to do this, but it would have been the inclusive thing to do. For the record, it's what I'd probably do in that situation.

You are reading a bunch of nastiness into OP's post that isn't there. She's just saying the dynamic is a bummer. And it is, specifically for her daughter, who was left out of something her friends did only because of the social dynamics of the adults.

Not reading any nastiness into OP. Just pointing out OP has no idea about the social lives of other girls. And whom they get together with and when. Just because her daughter plays with them sometimes, in way obligates the parents to invite her every time. They all have social lives outside of her daughter. There is no group. These are all individuals and they are not bound to each other

We're talking about kindergarteners here. I actually think OP probably has a relatively good sense of the social lives of these kids -- their lives are very regimented and they are together in school all day.

I am betting if all these kids were in soccer together and not with OP's DD, and she saw something about a post-soccer get together, she wouldn't think anything of it. I think the issue was that this was a group her DD hung out with at school all year, and they all celebrated the end of school together but didn't invite her DD. That's all.

As kids get older, there is a lot more about social dynamics that parents don't know, and kids aren't necessarily in the same classroom all day plus activities become more significant. But at kindergarten, you basically know, especially in this specific situation.

It's okay for OP to feel bad about it.

Maybe they see each other a lot more than than see OPs daughter. Maybe the girls and the moms just don’t feel a strong connection with OP and her DD. It doesn’t really matter. The point is, it is simply a gathering a friends. It doesn’t make them a clique bc they didn’t invite you and you feel you are entitled to be there. It isn’t exclusive since OPs daughter sometimes plays with them outside of school. But maybe other kids do too and they weren’t there either.

You have no idea if this is a clique or not. Your defense of this is bizarre.

Neither does OP. When her daughter is included it is a group of friends, when she’s not, it’s a clique.

The difference is simply if you feel entitled to be a part of something and aren’t, then it gets labeled a clique

What you call "entitlement" may simply have been a feeling of belonging. Everybody likes to belong and few people like being confronted with the evidence that they don't belong or were excluded. It's better to be inclusive than exclusive. If you're keeping your group small and private you should also not blast it on social media or things like this happen. It used to be common manners to not talk to people about parties they weren't invited to now people do the opposite because hurt feelings are a natural byproduct to those left out.

all the bolded. I know we can't "police people's social media" but we can certainly start calling out this behavior so that it's not as common.

Guarantee OP knows these moms post a lot of pictures on social media and wouldn’t have cared about the poor manners of it, had her daughter also been in the picture.

Yes. Is this truly the first time all year they’ve posted pics? OP’s kid has been getting together with these kids all year but this is the first photo drop on FB? I’m guessing posting on social media wasn’t a problem of bad manners when OP’s kid was in the photo.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the only problem here is that they posted on social media and OP saw it. If OP hadn't seen it or if they hadn't posted, then there wouldn't be an issue. The way around getting so easily offended is to get yourself off social media. This sort of thing will continue to happen and you need to start getting over it. I was definitely upset when I discovered my daughter's preschool bestie's family was good friends with two other preschool families and they got together all the time and never invited us, but then I realized that it's not about me, and my daughter didn't know or care. I got over it. I have my own friends.

The problem is that they posted in on social media. Not that OP is on social media.

OP can't police what other people post on social media, but she can look away.

100% this. I don’t know what complaining about “rude” fellow mothers is accomplishing other than giving OP (and at least one defender) a feeling of superiority. It’s been said here and elsewhere but you need to get off social media if it bums you out. The whole point of it is to share photos and daily banalities, not all of which you’ll be included in. Even if the moms were rude to post these photos—and I think they were not—all of this is avoided if OP just gets off social media.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the only problem here is that they posted on social media and OP saw it. If OP hadn't seen it or if they hadn't posted, then there wouldn't be an issue. The way around getting so easily offended is to get yourself off social media. This sort of thing will continue to happen and you need to start getting over it. I was definitely upset when I discovered my daughter's preschool bestie's family was good friends with two other preschool families and they got together all the time and never invited us, but then I realized that it's not about me, and my daughter didn't know or care. I got over it. I have my own friends.

The problem is that they posted in on social media. Not that OP is on social media.

OP can't police what other people post on social media, but she can look away.

100% this. I don’t know what complaining about “rude” fellow mothers is accomplishing other than giving OP (and at least one defender) a feeling of superiority. It’s been said here and elsewhere but you need to get off social media if it bums you out. The whole point of it is to share photos and daily banalities, not all of which you’ll be included in. Even if the moms were rude to post these photos—and I think they were not—all of this is avoided if OP just gets off social media.

The whole point of social media is bad then. Its not as harmless as the defenders are pretending, it’s a fact that its toxic. You just don’t like hearing it. So maybe you should avoid this conversation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Look, the only problem here is that they posted on social media and OP saw it. If OP hadn't seen it or if they hadn't posted, then there wouldn't be an issue. The way around getting so easily offended is to get yourself off social media. This sort of thing will continue to happen and you need to start getting over it. I was definitely upset when I discovered my daughter's preschool bestie's family was good friends with two other preschool families and they got together all the time and never invited us, but then I realized that it's not about me, and my daughter didn't know or care. I got over it. I have my own friends.

The problem is that they posted in on social media. Not that OP is on social media.

OP can't police what other people post on social media, but she can look away.

100% this. I don’t know what complaining about “rude” fellow mothers is accomplishing other than giving OP (and at least one defender) a feeling of superiority. It’s been said here and elsewhere but you need to get off social media if it bums you out. The whole point of it is to share photos and daily banalities, not all of which you’ll be included in. Even if the moms were rude to post these photos—and I think they were not—all of this is avoided if OP just gets off social media.

The whole point of social media is bad then. Its not as harmless as the defenders are pretending, it’s a fact that its toxic. You just don’t like hearing it. So maybe you should avoid this conversation?

What is the point of it if you can’t share your activities? Yes, most social media posts are dumb at this point. I agree that OP wouldn’t have cared if her daughter was included in the playdate but other girls in the class were left out.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

THIS

All the context indicates that OP's daughter was pointedly excluded because one or some of the moms do not like OP. Cliquishness is more noticeable to people who are more social (in real life and on the internet) and people who are generally very observant.

People involved in high-demand religions (like Mormonism) or who attend popular mega churches often complain about church cliques. Private schools are also rife with them. They exist in toxic workplaces where nepotism plays a big part in promotion. Posters on this thread trying to gaslight OP are either the usual suspect excluders, or anti-social types who don't notice their surroundings. I am anti-social and not a joiner, but I definitely notice cliques and hangers-on.

+1 and to be more explicit: cliques resource hoard. That's the main difference between a clique and a friend group. Friend groups don't have to include everyone, and can be amorphous, and people have to figure out how to deal with their feelings about that.

But a clique operates as a gatekeeper to resources or hierarchies. Parent cliques in elementary schools can be really harmful in this way. There was a strong clique in the PTA at our elementary school made ups of parents of older children, and they'd resource hoard for their kids. I had a child in a class with a bunch of the "younger siblings" from those families, and there were weird things that went on where, for instance, their kids were always selected for extra tutoring from teachers even if the child was testing above grade level. It's not even that I wanted my kid to go in for extra tutoring, but of course this group also became better friends because they spent more time together after school, and the teachers got to know them better because they were tutoring them. It created a caste system among the kids that was disturbing. We left that school to get away from it and my children are so much happier with a lot less social anxiety or stress.

What OP is describing doesn't rise to that level, but the people in this thread who are rolling their eyes at the whole idea of cliques, or that they don't exist in adult communities, are kidding themselves. Either you've been fortunate to avoid communities with cliques, or you are in one and like it how it is. But yes, this happens.

OMG, read your post. You sound insane. This was not happening, you just have a chip on your shoulder because your kid wasn't as smart as other kids.

This totally happened at the elementary my kids were at verified by parents whose kids spanned over 15 years. You sound naive.

No, sorry, unless this is a private school, this did not happen. You and the other moms are nuts.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

Why do you care if people like OP think the over sharers are jerks?

She posted on an anonymous board for comments. So…that’s how it works

Exactly. And many agree with OP but people are chiming in to say just look away. So people are commenting on that as well. If people can ask why OP cares about any of this, then the social media defenders can be questioned as well. I think the social media defenders don't like the idea that people are judging them for what they post.

You are questioning people for simply replying to the post- which is the whole purpose of starting a thread here- to get replies

I'm asking a question. Which is also a form of reply. Why don't you just answer the question? Why do you care if people like OP can't stand the mom clique people posting kindergarten play dates? What's with the "grow up" answers? Why don't these people explain what they get out of sharing to family and friends flung far and wide pics from an exclusive kindergarten play date? Distant family surely don't care about kids they don't know. But your classmates parents might wonder why they weren't invited. The "Grow up" or "don't look" posters aren't being helpful or insightful whatsoever with their pithy comments.

The problem is you. You view it as an exclusive play date. They view it as their kids and friends going out and having fun.

OP's kid was their kids' friend. End of the year gatherings usually involve inviting your child's regular friends (not all the kids in the class.) To not invite this child seems strange.

That is OP’s interpretation. Surely there are other regular friends that weren’t there as well, whatever that means. I assure you these girls aren’t doing everything together, always, anytime there is a gathering. This is normal and acceptable and not mean

I mean, I trust OP more to describe an event that happened in her own life than you. She says this was a group of girls her DD hung out with all year, and that her DD was the only member of the group not invited. If that's what she says, I believe her.

Also, a big issue with these conversations is how "mean" is defined. I don't think these women got together and decided "let's do something fun for the girls on the last day of school, but let's make sure not to invite Larla because her mom isn't part of our crew." I don't think OP thinks that's what happened either. She doesn't even use the term "mean". She's just saying it sucks because these moms are all friendly with each other and not necessarily with her (note she doesn't complain about this, it' just how it is) and as a result, her DD got left out of a fun activity with them.

OP's whole complaint is that at this age, kids rely mostly on their parents for arranging social engagements outside school, which means OP not being buddies with these women is a liability for her daughter.

It would have been nice for one of these women to think "hey the girls have been spending a lot of time with Larla this year, let's invite her -- I know we don't know her mom very well but this more for the girls." It's not necessarily mean NOT to do this, but it would have been the inclusive thing to do. For the record, it's what I'd probably do in that situation.

You are reading a bunch of nastiness into OP's post that isn't there. She's just saying the dynamic is a bummer. And it is, specifically for her daughter, who was left out of something her friends did only because of the social dynamics of the adults.

Not reading any nastiness into OP. Just pointing out OP has no idea about the social lives of other girls. And whom they get together with and when. Just because her daughter plays with them sometimes, in way obligates the parents to invite her every time. They all have social lives outside of her daughter. There is no group. These are all individuals and they are not bound to each other

We're talking about kindergarteners here. I actually think OP probably has a relatively good sense of the social lives of these kids -- their lives are very regimented and they are together in school all day.

I am betting if all these kids were in soccer together and not with OP's DD, and she saw something about a post-soccer get together, she wouldn't think anything of it. I think the issue was that this was a group her DD hung out with at school all year, and they all celebrated the end of school together but didn't invite her DD. That's all.

As kids get older, there is a lot more about social dynamics that parents don't know, and kids aren't necessarily in the same classroom all day plus activities become more significant. But at kindergarten, you basically know, especially in this specific situation.

It's okay for OP to feel bad about it.

Maybe they see each other a lot more than than see OPs daughter. Maybe the girls and the moms just don’t feel a strong connection with OP and her DD. It doesn’t really matter. The point is, it is simply a gathering a friends. It doesn’t make them a clique bc they didn’t invite you and you feel you are entitled to be there. It isn’t exclusive since OPs daughter sometimes plays with them outside of school. But maybe other kids do too and they weren’t there either.

You have no idea if this is a clique or not. Your defense of this is bizarre.

Neither does OP. When her daughter is included it is a group of friends, when she’s not, it’s a clique.

The difference is simply if you feel entitled to be a part of something and aren’t, then it gets labeled a clique

What you call "entitlement" may simply have been a feeling of belonging. Everybody likes to belong and few people like being confronted with the evidence that they don't belong or were excluded. It's better to be inclusive than exclusive. If you're keeping your group small and private you should also not blast it on social media or things like this happen. It used to be common manners to not talk to people about parties they weren't invited to now people do the opposite because hurt feelings are a natural byproduct to those left out.

all the bolded. I know we can't "police people's social media" but we can certainly start calling out this behavior so that it's not as common.

Guarantee OP knows these moms post a lot of pictures on social media and wouldn’t have cared about the poor manners of it, had her daughter also been in the picture.

Yes. Is this truly the first time all year they’ve posted pics? OP’s kid has been getting together with these kids all year but this is the first photo drop on FB? I’m guessing posting on social media wasn’t a problem of bad manners when OP’s kid was in the photo.

THIS THIS THIS.

Again, OP is jealous. It's not about social media, it's not even about her kid. It's about her. She is sad she's not a cool mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the only problem here is that they posted on social media and OP saw it. If OP hadn't seen it or if they hadn't posted, then there wouldn't be an issue. The way around getting so easily offended is to get yourself off social media. This sort of thing will continue to happen and you need to start getting over it. I was definitely upset when I discovered my daughter's preschool bestie's family was good friends with two other preschool families and they got together all the time and never invited us, but then I realized that it's not about me, and my daughter didn't know or care. I got over it. I have my own friends.

The problem is that they posted in on social media. Not that OP is on social media.

OP can't police what other people post on social media, but she can look away.

100% this. I don’t know what complaining about “rude” fellow mothers is accomplishing other than giving OP (and at least one defender) a feeling of superiority. It’s been said here and elsewhere but you need to get off social media if it bums you out. The whole point of it is to share photos and daily banalities, not all of which you’ll be included in. Even if the moms were rude to post these photos—and I think they were not—all of this is avoided if OP just gets off social media.

The whole point of social media is bad then. Its not as harmless as the defenders are pretending, it’s a fact that its toxic. You just don’t like hearing it. So maybe you should avoid this conversation?

What is the point of it if you can’t share your activities? Yes, most social media posts are dumb at this point. I agree that OP wouldn’t have cared if her daughter was included in the playdate but other girls in the class were left out.

Well, exactly. What is the point? Who needs to see your activities? Why do you share them? I think updates of you and your family are fine, to a point. Although do your kids really consent to you posting their face everywhere? Will they hate you for it later? Maybe some people need to rethink what they're doing with their social media usage.

[Anonymous]

For those of you who think your oversharing is harmless and people need to look away. You should read this, especially since we're talking about posting your kid's activities, not even your own.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/05/parents-posting-kids-online-tiktok-social-media/674137/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think your oversharing is harmless and people need to look away. You should read this, especially since we're talking about posting your kid's activities, not even your own.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/05/parents-posting-kids-online-tiktok-social-media/674137/

I 1000% do not believe in posting kids on my social media. I don’t post on social media at all. If other people do, it’s not only none of my business, it’s not a problem for me because I don’t see it. The OP needs to focus on her own problems and deleting social media eliminates this one for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think your oversharing is harmless and people need to look away. You should read this, especially since we're talking about posting your kid's activities, not even your own.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/05/parents-posting-kids-online-tiktok-social-media/674137/

You KEEP posting stuff about this. What is your point?

I hate social media. I literally never ever post. I agree it is toxic. And yet—I realize I cannot control what other people do, but I CAN control myself and LOOK AWAY if I don’t like it.

You keep saying it’s toxic but yet OP isn’t responsible for staying away from something toxic? Like she knows not to drink poison but she just can’t help it, so let’s blame the poison instead of OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think your oversharing is harmless and people need to look away. You should read this, especially since we're talking about posting your kid's activities, not even your own.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/05/parents-posting-kids-online-tiktok-social-media/674137/

You KEEP posting stuff about this. What is your point?

I hate social media. I literally never ever post. I agree it is toxic. And yet—I realize I cannot control what other people do, but I CAN control myself and LOOK AWAY if I don’t like it.

You keep saying it’s toxic but yet OP isn’t responsible for staying away from something toxic? Like she knows not to drink poison but she just can’t help it, so let’s blame the poison instead of OP.

You can stop replying if it bothers you that people are talking about this. Or stick your head in the sand. Either way, we can talk about bad things like social media, drugs, drinking, etc. Stop telling people to look away because we aren't gong to shut up about it. Got it?