I hate Mom Cliques

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you never posted your DD’s playdate or party pics on FB?

Are all of the playdates you host for all of the girls in the class? If not, why not? Surely there are other girls who feel excluded that these “4 or 5 girls” are getting together without them.

I am asking these pointed questions bc OP seems like the kind of person who is fine with cliques as long as she is on the inside, but decries them when she is not.

Np. I don't post birthday party pics on Facebook, of course not! If you're doing that, you're rude.

I don't post play date pictures either but my son's friends moms do. I think it's fine if it's just a one on one play date. But not if it's a group thing.

Five moms getting together is not just a little play date of close friends.

Sorry this happened op.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just you Op. If those girls wanted your DD to attend, then they would have pleaded to have her over.

Not if they're only in K and this is what they're used to. The kids are just along for the ride for this type of thing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

THIS

All the context indicates that OP's daughter was pointedly excluded because one or some of the moms do not like OP. Cliquishness is more noticeable to people who are more social (in real life and on the internet) and people who are generally very observant.

People involved in high-demand religions (like Mormonism) or who attend popular mega churches often complain about church cliques. Private schools are also rife with them. They exist in toxic workplaces where nepotism plays a big part in promotion. Posters on this thread trying to gaslight OP are either the usual suspect excluders, or anti-social types who don't notice their surroundings. I am anti-social and not a joiner, but I definitely notice cliques and hangers-on.

+1 and to be more explicit: cliques resource hoard. That's the main difference between a clique and a friend group. Friend groups don't have to include everyone, and can be amorphous, and people have to figure out how to deal with their feelings about that.

But a clique operates as a gatekeeper to resources or hierarchies. Parent cliques in elementary schools can be really harmful in this way. There was a strong clique in the PTA at our elementary school made ups of parents of older children, and they'd resource hoard for their kids. I had a child in a class with a bunch of the "younger siblings" from those families, and there were weird things that went on where, for instance, their kids were always selected for extra tutoring from teachers even if the child was testing above grade level. It's not even that I wanted my kid to go in for extra tutoring, but of course this group also became better friends because they spent more time together after school, and the teachers got to know them better because they were tutoring them. It created a caste system among the kids that was disturbing. We left that school to get away from it and my children are so much happier with a lot less social anxiety or stress.

What OP is describing doesn't rise to that level, but the people in this thread who are rolling their eyes at the whole idea of cliques, or that they don't exist in adult communities, are kidding themselves. Either you've been fortunate to avoid communities with cliques, or you are in one and like it how it is. But yes, this happens.

OMG, read your post. You sound insane. This was not happening, you just have a chip on your shoulder because your kid wasn't as smart as other kids.

This totally happened at the elementary my kids were at verified by parents whose kids spanned over 15 years. You sound naive.

No, sorry, unless this is a private school, this did not happen. You and the other moms are nuts.

I see. You're naive. Public schools rely heavily on donations from parents to by anything beyond basic supplies. Many of these parents were heavy donors along with the fact that with multiple children, these parents could be involved with this elementary for almost 20 years, these teachers know which side their bread is buttered on. You're so vehement about something you know nothing about. Is this your first child?

[Anonymous]

*buy

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

Why do you care if people like OP think the over sharers are jerks?

She posted on an anonymous board for comments. So…that’s how it works

Exactly. And many agree with OP but people are chiming in to say just look away. So people are commenting on that as well. If people can ask why OP cares about any of this, then the social media defenders can be questioned as well. I think the social media defenders don't like the idea that people are judging them for what they post.

You are questioning people for simply replying to the post- which is the whole purpose of starting a thread here- to get replies

I'm asking a question. Which is also a form of reply. Why don't you just answer the question? Why do you care if people like OP can't stand the mom clique people posting kindergarten play dates? What's with the "grow up" answers? Why don't these people explain what they get out of sharing to family and friends flung far and wide pics from an exclusive kindergarten play date? Distant family surely don't care about kids they don't know. But your classmates parents might wonder why they weren't invited. The "Grow up" or "don't look" posters aren't being helpful or insightful whatsoever with their pithy comments.

The problem is you. You view it as an exclusive play date. They view it as their kids and friends going out and having fun.

OP's kid was their kids' friend. End of the year gatherings usually involve inviting your child's regular friends (not all the kids in the class.) To not invite this child seems strange.

That is OP’s interpretation. Surely there are other regular friends that weren’t there as well, whatever that means. I assure you these girls aren’t doing everything together, always, anytime there is a gathering. This is normal and acceptable and not mean

I mean, I trust OP more to describe an event that happened in her own life than you. She says this was a group of girls her DD hung out with all year, and that her DD was the only member of the group not invited. If that's what she says, I believe her.

Also, a big issue with these conversations is how "mean" is defined. I don't think these women got together and decided "let's do something fun for the girls on the last day of school, but let's make sure not to invite Larla because her mom isn't part of our crew." I don't think OP thinks that's what happened either. She doesn't even use the term "mean". She's just saying it sucks because these moms are all friendly with each other and not necessarily with her (note she doesn't complain about this, it' just how it is) and as a result, her DD got left out of a fun activity with them.

OP's whole complaint is that at this age, kids rely mostly on their parents for arranging social engagements outside school, which means OP not being buddies with these women is a liability for her daughter.

It would have been nice for one of these women to think "hey the girls have been spending a lot of time with Larla this year, let's invite her -- I know we don't know her mom very well but this more for the girls." It's not necessarily mean NOT to do this, but it would have been the inclusive thing to do. For the record, it's what I'd probably do in that situation.

You are reading a bunch of nastiness into OP's post that isn't there. She's just saying the dynamic is a bummer. And it is, specifically for her daughter, who was left out of something her friends did only because of the social dynamics of the adults.

Not reading any nastiness into OP. Just pointing out OP has no idea about the social lives of other girls. And whom they get together with and when. Just because her daughter plays with them sometimes, in way obligates the parents to invite her every time. They all have social lives outside of her daughter. There is no group. These are all individuals and they are not bound to each other

We're talking about kindergarteners here. I actually think OP probably has a relatively good sense of the social lives of these kids -- their lives are very regimented and they are together in school all day.

I am betting if all these kids were in soccer together and not with OP's DD, and she saw something about a post-soccer get together, she wouldn't think anything of it. I think the issue was that this was a group her DD hung out with at school all year, and they all celebrated the end of school together but didn't invite her DD. That's all.

As kids get older, there is a lot more about social dynamics that parents don't know, and kids aren't necessarily in the same classroom all day plus activities become more significant. But at kindergarten, you basically know, especially in this specific situation.

It's okay for OP to feel bad about it.

Maybe they see each other a lot more than than see OPs daughter. Maybe the girls and the moms just don’t feel a strong connection with OP and her DD. It doesn’t really matter. The point is, it is simply a gathering a friends. It doesn’t make them a clique bc they didn’t invite you and you feel you are entitled to be there. It isn’t exclusive since OPs daughter sometimes plays with them outside of school. But maybe other kids do too and they weren’t there either.

You have no idea if this is a clique or not. Your defense of this is bizarre.

Neither does OP. When her daughter is included it is a group of friends, when she’s not, it’s a clique.

The difference is simply if you feel entitled to be a part of something and aren’t, then it gets labeled a clique

What you call "entitlement" may simply have been a feeling of belonging. Everybody likes to belong and few people like being confronted with the evidence that they don't belong or were excluded. It's better to be inclusive than exclusive. If you're keeping your group small and private you should also not blast it on social media or things like this happen. It used to be common manners to not talk to people about parties they weren't invited to now people do the opposite because hurt feelings are a natural byproduct to those left out.

all the bolded. I know we can't "police people's social media" but we can certainly start calling out this behavior so that it's not as common.

Guarantee OP knows these moms post a lot of pictures on social media and wouldn’t have cared about the poor manners of it, had her daughter also been in the picture.

Has OP said social media is bad? Or just other posters?

I came to this thread later but I did actually read OP's post and my read is that she's just saying it's a bummer when the close relationships of the adults are what dictate the friendships among kids. It's definitely true for this age group, and it is hard if you don't happen to have a group of close friends at the school with same age kids. It eventually stops being such an issue because older kids have more autonomy to make their own friends and aren't just socializing in ways planned and dictated by their parents. But for K and 1st grade, it's all about parent relationships and that can be hard if there is a somewhat exclusive clique in your grade. It would be easier if instead relationships among the adults were more fluid.

I think people are making this into a much bigger thing than what OP actually said. She didn't come on here and say it that these women were bad people or that they intentionally excluded her kid or that social media is terribly or that they were evil for posting the photo. She's literally just saying that cliques of moms can be hard at this age where kids are totally reliant on their parents for socializing. Which is true, I relate to it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

THIS

All the context indicates that OP's daughter was pointedly excluded because one or some of the moms do not like OP. Cliquishness is more noticeable to people who are more social (in real life and on the internet) and people who are generally very observant.

People involved in high-demand religions (like Mormonism) or who attend popular mega churches often complain about church cliques. Private schools are also rife with them. They exist in toxic workplaces where nepotism plays a big part in promotion. Posters on this thread trying to gaslight OP are either the usual suspect excluders, or anti-social types who don't notice their surroundings. I am anti-social and not a joiner, but I definitely notice cliques and hangers-on.

+1 and to be more explicit: cliques resource hoard. That's the main difference between a clique and a friend group. Friend groups don't have to include everyone, and can be amorphous, and people have to figure out how to deal with their feelings about that.

But a clique operates as a gatekeeper to resources or hierarchies. Parent cliques in elementary schools can be really harmful in this way. There was a strong clique in the PTA at our elementary school made ups of parents of older children, and they'd resource hoard for their kids. I had a child in a class with a bunch of the "younger siblings" from those families, and there were weird things that went on where, for instance, their kids were always selected for extra tutoring from teachers even if the child was testing above grade level. It's not even that I wanted my kid to go in for extra tutoring, but of course this group also became better friends because they spent more time together after school, and the teachers got to know them better because they were tutoring them. It created a caste system among the kids that was disturbing. We left that school to get away from it and my children are so much happier with a lot less social anxiety or stress.

What OP is describing doesn't rise to that level, but the people in this thread who are rolling their eyes at the whole idea of cliques, or that they don't exist in adult communities, are kidding themselves. Either you've been fortunate to avoid communities with cliques, or you are in one and like it how it is. But yes, this happens.

OMG, read your post. You sound insane. This was not happening, you just have a chip on your shoulder because your kid wasn't as smart as other kids.

This totally happened at the elementary my kids were at verified by parents whose kids spanned over 15 years. You sound naive.

No, sorry, unless this is a private school, this did not happen. You and the other moms are nuts.

It's so strange to me that you are convince people are lying or making things up? Why would someone make this up?

You see the same kind of behavior sometimes with HOAs, many volunteer organizations, etc. If you live in DC, you may have an ANC with these kinds of dynamics -- basically every 6 months there will be a local news story about some dysfunctional ANC where people were behaving this way.

It's just kind of hilarious to me that people are saying "oh yeah, I dealt with something like this" and you are just flatly denying it's even possible when, duh, of course this sort of thing happens all the time. Even in, GASP, public schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

Why do you care if people like OP think the over sharers are jerks?

She posted on an anonymous board for comments. So…that’s how it works

Exactly. And many agree with OP but people are chiming in to say just look away. So people are commenting on that as well. If people can ask why OP cares about any of this, then the social media defenders can be questioned as well. I think the social media defenders don't like the idea that people are judging them for what they post.

You are questioning people for simply replying to the post- which is the whole purpose of starting a thread here- to get replies

I'm asking a question. Which is also a form of reply. Why don't you just answer the question? Why do you care if people like OP can't stand the mom clique people posting kindergarten play dates? What's with the "grow up" answers? Why don't these people explain what they get out of sharing to family and friends flung far and wide pics from an exclusive kindergarten play date? Distant family surely don't care about kids they don't know. But your classmates parents might wonder why they weren't invited. The "Grow up" or "don't look" posters aren't being helpful or insightful whatsoever with their pithy comments.

The problem is you. You view it as an exclusive play date. They view it as their kids and friends going out and having fun.

OP's kid was their kids' friend. End of the year gatherings usually involve inviting your child's regular friends (not all the kids in the class.) To not invite this child seems strange.

That is OP’s interpretation. Surely there are other regular friends that weren’t there as well, whatever that means. I assure you these girls aren’t doing everything together, always, anytime there is a gathering. This is normal and acceptable and not mean

I mean, I trust OP more to describe an event that happened in her own life than you. She says this was a group of girls her DD hung out with all year, and that her DD was the only member of the group not invited. If that's what she says, I believe her.

Also, a big issue with these conversations is how "mean" is defined. I don't think these women got together and decided "let's do something fun for the girls on the last day of school, but let's make sure not to invite Larla because her mom isn't part of our crew." I don't think OP thinks that's what happened either. She doesn't even use the term "mean". She's just saying it sucks because these moms are all friendly with each other and not necessarily with her (note she doesn't complain about this, it' just how it is) and as a result, her DD got left out of a fun activity with them.

OP's whole complaint is that at this age, kids rely mostly on their parents for arranging social engagements outside school, which means OP not being buddies with these women is a liability for her daughter.

It would have been nice for one of these women to think "hey the girls have been spending a lot of time with Larla this year, let's invite her -- I know we don't know her mom very well but this more for the girls." It's not necessarily mean NOT to do this, but it would have been the inclusive thing to do. For the record, it's what I'd probably do in that situation.

You are reading a bunch of nastiness into OP's post that isn't there. She's just saying the dynamic is a bummer. And it is, specifically for her daughter, who was left out of something her friends did only because of the social dynamics of the adults.

Not reading any nastiness into OP. Just pointing out OP has no idea about the social lives of other girls. And whom they get together with and when. Just because her daughter plays with them sometimes, in way obligates the parents to invite her every time. They all have social lives outside of her daughter. There is no group. These are all individuals and they are not bound to each other

We're talking about kindergarteners here. I actually think OP probably has a relatively good sense of the social lives of these kids -- their lives are very regimented and they are together in school all day.

I am betting if all these kids were in soccer together and not with OP's DD, and she saw something about a post-soccer get together, she wouldn't think anything of it. I think the issue was that this was a group her DD hung out with at school all year, and they all celebrated the end of school together but didn't invite her DD. That's all.

As kids get older, there is a lot more about social dynamics that parents don't know, and kids aren't necessarily in the same classroom all day plus activities become more significant. But at kindergarten, you basically know, especially in this specific situation.

It's okay for OP to feel bad about it.

Maybe they see each other a lot more than than see OPs daughter. Maybe the girls and the moms just don’t feel a strong connection with OP and her DD. It doesn’t really matter. The point is, it is simply a gathering a friends. It doesn’t make them a clique bc they didn’t invite you and you feel you are entitled to be there. It isn’t exclusive since OPs daughter sometimes plays with them outside of school. But maybe other kids do too and they weren’t there either.

You have no idea if this is a clique or not. Your defense of this is bizarre.

Neither does OP. When her daughter is included it is a group of friends, when she’s not, it’s a clique.

The difference is simply if you feel entitled to be a part of something and aren’t, then it gets labeled a clique

What you call "entitlement" may simply have been a feeling of belonging. Everybody likes to belong and few people like being confronted with the evidence that they don't belong or were excluded. It's better to be inclusive than exclusive. If you're keeping your group small and private you should also not blast it on social media or things like this happen. It used to be common manners to not talk to people about parties they weren't invited to now people do the opposite because hurt feelings are a natural byproduct to those left out.

all the bolded. I know we can't "police people's social media" but we can certainly start calling out this behavior so that it's not as common.

Guarantee OP knows these moms post a lot of pictures on social media and wouldn’t have cared about the poor manners of it, had her daughter also been in the picture.

Has OP said social media is bad? Or just other posters?

I came to this thread later but I did actually read OP's post and my read is that she's just saying it's a bummer when the close relationships of the adults are what dictate the friendships among kids. It's definitely true for this age group, and it is hard if you don't happen to have a group of close friends at the school with same age kids. It eventually stops being such an issue because older kids have more autonomy to make their own friends and aren't just socializing in ways planned and dictated by their parents. But for K and 1st grade, it's all about parent relationships and that can be hard if there is a somewhat exclusive clique in your grade. It would be easier if instead relationships among the adults were more fluid.

I think people are making this into a much bigger thing than what OP actually said. She didn't come on here and say it that these women were bad people or that they intentionally excluded her kid or that social media is terribly or that they were evil for posting the photo. She's literally just saying that cliques of moms can be hard at this age where kids are totally reliant on their parents for socializing. Which is true, I relate to it.

OP said it make her feel terrible. And from that you're getting "she never said it was a bad thing." Huh. And many people have chimed in to say it doesn't get better. These moms are still at it even in middle school. If you had older kids you'd know that. The social engineering goes on for quite awhile.

[Anonymous]

DP. I feel so sorry for OP. I have seen this happen with boys, but it seems much more common with girls. Sad.

We never did Facebook or NextDoor. I guess its good that we still don't.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

Why do you care if people like OP think the over sharers are jerks?

She posted on an anonymous board for comments. So…that’s how it works

Exactly. And many agree with OP but people are chiming in to say just look away. So people are commenting on that as well. If people can ask why OP cares about any of this, then the social media defenders can be questioned as well. I think the social media defenders don't like the idea that people are judging them for what they post.

You are questioning people for simply replying to the post- which is the whole purpose of starting a thread here- to get replies

I'm asking a question. Which is also a form of reply. Why don't you just answer the question? Why do you care if people like OP can't stand the mom clique people posting kindergarten play dates? What's with the "grow up" answers? Why don't these people explain what they get out of sharing to family and friends flung far and wide pics from an exclusive kindergarten play date? Distant family surely don't care about kids they don't know. But your classmates parents might wonder why they weren't invited. The "Grow up" or "don't look" posters aren't being helpful or insightful whatsoever with their pithy comments.

The problem is you. You view it as an exclusive play date. They view it as their kids and friends going out and having fun.

OP's kid was their kids' friend. End of the year gatherings usually involve inviting your child's regular friends (not all the kids in the class.) To not invite this child seems strange.

That is OP’s interpretation. Surely there are other regular friends that weren’t there as well, whatever that means. I assure you these girls aren’t doing everything together, always, anytime there is a gathering. This is normal and acceptable and not mean

I mean, I trust OP more to describe an event that happened in her own life than you. She says this was a group of girls her DD hung out with all year, and that her DD was the only member of the group not invited. If that's what she says, I believe her.

Also, a big issue with these conversations is how "mean" is defined. I don't think these women got together and decided "let's do something fun for the girls on the last day of school, but let's make sure not to invite Larla because her mom isn't part of our crew." I don't think OP thinks that's what happened either. She doesn't even use the term "mean". She's just saying it sucks because these moms are all friendly with each other and not necessarily with her (note she doesn't complain about this, it' just how it is) and as a result, her DD got left out of a fun activity with them.

OP's whole complaint is that at this age, kids rely mostly on their parents for arranging social engagements outside school, which means OP not being buddies with these women is a liability for her daughter.

It would have been nice for one of these women to think "hey the girls have been spending a lot of time with Larla this year, let's invite her -- I know we don't know her mom very well but this more for the girls." It's not necessarily mean NOT to do this, but it would have been the inclusive thing to do. For the record, it's what I'd probably do in that situation.

You are reading a bunch of nastiness into OP's post that isn't there. She's just saying the dynamic is a bummer. And it is, specifically for her daughter, who was left out of something her friends did only because of the social dynamics of the adults.

Not reading any nastiness into OP. Just pointing out OP has no idea about the social lives of other girls. And whom they get together with and when. Just because her daughter plays with them sometimes, in way obligates the parents to invite her every time. They all have social lives outside of her daughter. There is no group. These are all individuals and they are not bound to each other

We're talking about kindergarteners here. I actually think OP probably has a relatively good sense of the social lives of these kids -- their lives are very regimented and they are together in school all day.

I am betting if all these kids were in soccer together and not with OP's DD, and she saw something about a post-soccer get together, she wouldn't think anything of it. I think the issue was that this was a group her DD hung out with at school all year, and they all celebrated the end of school together but didn't invite her DD. That's all.

As kids get older, there is a lot more about social dynamics that parents don't know, and kids aren't necessarily in the same classroom all day plus activities become more significant. But at kindergarten, you basically know, especially in this specific situation.

It's okay for OP to feel bad about it.

Maybe they see each other a lot more than than see OPs daughter. Maybe the girls and the moms just don’t feel a strong connection with OP and her DD. It doesn’t really matter. The point is, it is simply a gathering a friends. It doesn’t make them a clique bc they didn’t invite you and you feel you are entitled to be there. It isn’t exclusive since OPs daughter sometimes plays with them outside of school. But maybe other kids do too and they weren’t there either.

You have no idea if this is a clique or not. Your defense of this is bizarre.

Neither does OP. When her daughter is included it is a group of friends, when she’s not, it’s a clique.

The difference is simply if you feel entitled to be a part of something and aren’t, then it gets labeled a clique

What you call "entitlement" may simply have been a feeling of belonging. Everybody likes to belong and few people like being confronted with the evidence that they don't belong or were excluded. It's better to be inclusive than exclusive. If you're keeping your group small and private you should also not blast it on social media or things like this happen. It used to be common manners to not talk to people about parties they weren't invited to now people do the opposite because hurt feelings are a natural byproduct to those left out.

all the bolded. I know we can't "police people's social media" but we can certainly start calling out this behavior so that it's not as common.

Guarantee OP knows these moms post a lot of pictures on social media and wouldn’t have cared about the poor manners of it, had her daughter also been in the picture.

That is probably true given the particular details. Although I have taken OP's side in this debate, I hope the incident gives her some perspective on how her own behavior is interpreted by others. Almost certainly there are and will be moms who think OP is cliquish. Overall I think OP is justified in feeling the way she feels about this particular situation.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

THIS

All the context indicates that OP's daughter was pointedly excluded because one or some of the moms do not like OP. Cliquishness is more noticeable to people who are more social (in real life and on the internet) and people who are generally very observant.

People involved in high-demand religions (like Mormonism) or who attend popular mega churches often complain about church cliques. Private schools are also rife with them. They exist in toxic workplaces where nepotism plays a big part in promotion. Posters on this thread trying to gaslight OP are either the usual suspect excluders, or anti-social types who don't notice their surroundings. I am anti-social and not a joiner, but I definitely notice cliques and hangers-on.

+1 and to be more explicit: cliques resource hoard. That's the main difference between a clique and a friend group. Friend groups don't have to include everyone, and can be amorphous, and people have to figure out how to deal with their feelings about that.

But a clique operates as a gatekeeper to resources or hierarchies. Parent cliques in elementary schools can be really harmful in this way. There was a strong clique in the PTA at our elementary school made ups of parents of older children, and they'd resource hoard for their kids. I had a child in a class with a bunch of the "younger siblings" from those families, and there were weird things that went on where, for instance, their kids were always selected for extra tutoring from teachers even if the child was testing above grade level. It's not even that I wanted my kid to go in for extra tutoring, but of course this group also became better friends because they spent more time together after school, and the teachers got to know them better because they were tutoring them. It created a caste system among the kids that was disturbing. We left that school to get away from it and my children are so much happier with a lot less social anxiety or stress.

What OP is describing doesn't rise to that level, but the people in this thread who are rolling their eyes at the whole idea of cliques, or that they don't exist in adult communities, are kidding themselves. Either you've been fortunate to avoid communities with cliques, or you are in one and like it how it is. But yes, this happens.

OMG, read your post. You sound insane. This was not happening, you just have a chip on your shoulder because your kid wasn't as smart as other kids.

This totally happened at the elementary my kids were at verified by parents whose kids spanned over 15 years. You sound naive.

No, sorry, unless this is a private school, this did not happen. You and the other moms are nuts.

I see. You're naive. Public schools rely heavily on donations from parents to by anything beyond basic supplies. Many of these parents were heavy donors along with the fact that with multiple children, these parents could be involved with this elementary for almost 20 years, these teachers know which side their bread is buttered on. You're so vehement about something you know nothing about. Is this your first child?

I have three children and we must just live in an area with nicer people. Are you in a wealthy area? This sounds like a rich people thing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

THIS

All the context indicates that OP's daughter was pointedly excluded because one or some of the moms do not like OP. Cliquishness is more noticeable to people who are more social (in real life and on the internet) and people who are generally very observant.

People involved in high-demand religions (like Mormonism) or who attend popular mega churches often complain about church cliques. Private schools are also rife with them. They exist in toxic workplaces where nepotism plays a big part in promotion. Posters on this thread trying to gaslight OP are either the usual suspect excluders, or anti-social types who don't notice their surroundings. I am anti-social and not a joiner, but I definitely notice cliques and hangers-on.

+1 and to be more explicit: cliques resource hoard. That's the main difference between a clique and a friend group. Friend groups don't have to include everyone, and can be amorphous, and people have to figure out how to deal with their feelings about that.

But a clique operates as a gatekeeper to resources or hierarchies. Parent cliques in elementary schools can be really harmful in this way. There was a strong clique in the PTA at our elementary school made ups of parents of older children, and they'd resource hoard for their kids. I had a child in a class with a bunch of the "younger siblings" from those families, and there were weird things that went on where, for instance, their kids were always selected for extra tutoring from teachers even if the child was testing above grade level. It's not even that I wanted my kid to go in for extra tutoring, but of course this group also became better friends because they spent more time together after school, and the teachers got to know them better because they were tutoring them. It created a caste system among the kids that was disturbing. We left that school to get away from it and my children are so much happier with a lot less social anxiety or stress.

What OP is describing doesn't rise to that level, but the people in this thread who are rolling their eyes at the whole idea of cliques, or that they don't exist in adult communities, are kidding themselves. Either you've been fortunate to avoid communities with cliques, or you are in one and like it how it is. But yes, this happens.

OMG, read your post. You sound insane. This was not happening, you just have a chip on your shoulder because your kid wasn't as smart as other kids.

This totally happened at the elementary my kids were at verified by parents whose kids spanned over 15 years. You sound naive.

This is super crazy. Lots of moms who know they have challenging kids like to be extra involved. I work and have my own life but I volunteer as much as I can because I like to see what is going on at school and really appreciate the teachers and special events (my kids love most of them). Both my kids have/had IEPs at various points in time for different issues, not because I got them special help by volunteering (or donating). It’s actually the other way around.

[Anonymous]

Are we talking about the homely looking idiots outside the elementary school? They are nasty sad people with no lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we talking about the homely looking idiots outside the elementary school? They are nasty sad people with no lives.

No, we are talking about farts. Brrrraaaaaap

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, OP. Sixth grade parent still dealing with this crap and I’m so over it.

same happened before here and was part of a group too that wanted to exclude others. Its just so annoying and cant wait to be done with elementary.

It gets "better" (/s) in MS and HS - when the same ("I think I'm) "cool" moms try to live vicariously through their daughters, and micromanage the social calendar. Consider yourself warned.

Omg the number of moms I see who post pictures of their daughters’ social events, boyfriends, etc etc blows my mind. They are nutso.

Omg the number of people posting a picture of what they are eating for dinner blows my mind.

In other words, I don’t see how posting pictures of your kids and friends is any worse, or offensive, or “nutso” than the tons of other stuff people post.

Call me crazy, but I don't think a slice of pizza is having its privacy violated when you post a picture of it.

Ha, gotta love the posters who see nothing wrong with posting all about their kids’ and their own social lives on social media. I am understanding now that they really don’t know that other people think they are sad little insecure people. And that they probably think that those of us who don’t post don’t have social lives. 😂

Maybe they have their permission. You don’t know, so why the snark? I’m not on social media, but if you are- you should stop taking what others post personally or get off.

It doesn’t matter if you have their permission. Why do you need to share about your private social plans with people who weren’t there?? Why can’t you just share with the people who were there, the ones you cared to include?

I don’t and I don’t care if others do or don’t. Their intention is to share pictures of themselves/kids having a good time. If you are bothered by seeing that, move along.

You say you don't care but seem really intent on defending this unnecessary practice that does affect other people. No matter how many times you tell them to look away. What's it to you if people want to vent about it? If you're not actively doing it they're not talking about you.

It’s a delusion. There is no “mom clique.” So what exactly does OP “hate”? That sometimes people get together without her? Grow up

THIS

All the context indicates that OP's daughter was pointedly excluded because one or some of the moms do not like OP. Cliquishness is more noticeable to people who are more social (in real life and on the internet) and people who are generally very observant.

People involved in high-demand religions (like Mormonism) or who attend popular mega churches often complain about church cliques. Private schools are also rife with them. They exist in toxic workplaces where nepotism plays a big part in promotion. Posters on this thread trying to gaslight OP are either the usual suspect excluders, or anti-social types who don't notice their surroundings. I am anti-social and not a joiner, but I definitely notice cliques and hangers-on.

+1 and to be more explicit: cliques resource hoard. That's the main difference between a clique and a friend group. Friend groups don't have to include everyone, and can be amorphous, and people have to figure out how to deal with their feelings about that.

But a clique operates as a gatekeeper to resources or hierarchies. Parent cliques in elementary schools can be really harmful in this way. There was a strong clique in the PTA at our elementary school made ups of parents of older children, and they'd resource hoard for their kids. I had a child in a class with a bunch of the "younger siblings" from those families, and there were weird things that went on where, for instance, their kids were always selected for extra tutoring from teachers even if the child was testing above grade level. It's not even that I wanted my kid to go in for extra tutoring, but of course this group also became better friends because they spent more time together after school, and the teachers got to know them better because they were tutoring them. It created a caste system among the kids that was disturbing. We left that school to get away from it and my children are so much happier with a lot less social anxiety or stress.

What OP is describing doesn't rise to that level, but the people in this thread who are rolling their eyes at the whole idea of cliques, or that they don't exist in adult communities, are kidding themselves. Either you've been fortunate to avoid communities with cliques, or you are in one and like it how it is. But yes, this happens.

OMG, read your post. You sound insane. This was not happening, you just have a chip on your shoulder because your kid wasn't as smart as other kids.

This totally happened at the elementary my kids were at verified by parents whose kids spanned over 15 years. You sound naive.

This is super crazy. Lots of moms who know they have challenging kids like to be extra involved. I work and have my own life but I volunteer as much as I can because I like to see what is going on at school and really appreciate the teachers and special events (my kids love most of them). Both my kids have/had IEPs at various points in time for different issues, not because I got them special help by volunteering (or donating). It’s actually the other way around.

I think you saw someone talking about how a clique centered upon a PTA can be really harmful and got defensive because you are highly involved in your PTA.

But if you don't use your PTA to gatekeeper or get beneficial treatment for your kid, you shouldn't feel defensive. No one is saying this is every PTA. But yes, it happens, and it happens at public schools. And not just in wealthy areas. It's just a negative aspect of human nature, like the office manager who uses their limited power to make life unpleasant for people simply because they are a miserable person who resents others. Well the same thing can happen on a PTA -- you get the wrong person or people in key positions and it can very quickly make a school an unpleasant place for many other families because now the PTA is about their needs and not the school or the kids in general. Seen it happen twice and it's not fun for anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you never posted your DD’s playdate or party pics on FB?

Are all of the playdates you host for all of the girls in the class? If not, why not? Surely there are other girls who feel excluded that these “4 or 5 girls” are getting together without them.

I am asking these pointed questions bc OP seems like the kind of person who is fine with cliques as long as she is on the inside, but decries them when she is not.

Np. I don't post birthday party pics on Facebook, of course not! If you're doing that, you're rude.

I don't post play date pictures either but my son's friends moms do. I think it's fine if it's just a one on one play date. But not if it's a group thing.

Five moms getting together is not just a little play date of close friends.

Sorry this happened op.

I don’t know who would want to see your play date pictures. We just text pictures to the people who were there.