This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Congrats OP! Good job! I never picked up the rope and my DH has been great at keeping up communication with his parents. They’re divorced so it is twice as much work for him, but he talks to them, arranges the flights, gets them gifts, etc. Men are totally capable of that stuff. I do get gifts for our one niece on his side because I enjoy doing that. And he thanks me. This is not some marriage-ruining set up.


Did anyone claim it was marriage ruining?


Yes, the 54 year old lady.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Congrats OP! Good job! I never picked up the rope and my DH has been great at keeping up communication with his parents. They’re divorced so it is twice as much work for him, but he talks to them, arranges the flights, gets them gifts, etc. Men are totally capable of that stuff. I do get gifts for our one niece on his side because I enjoy doing that. And he thanks me. This is not some marriage-ruining set up.


Did anyone claim it was marriage ruining?


Yes, the 54 year old lady.


55, sorry.
Anonymous
The very first Christmas we spent together I went all out picking the perfect gifts for his family. They wouldn't even look me in the eye. I've been done ever since. Every year he asks "What are we doing for my parents / sister " and I say "I got my parents X and Y. Do whatever you want."
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.


Why is that the OP’s problem??

Good for you, OP! I did the same when my kids were younger and shocker: my DH didn’t pick up any of the physical or emotional labor. That has, indeed, resulted in a less close relationship with his side of the family but how/why am I supposed to do everything for both sides?!?!


There’s that ridiculous ohrase again - “emotional labor”. Gag! Stop with that nonsense. Maintaining relationships is not “liabor”. I’m not saying you have to put the work into his side of the family but that term you keep using is utter crap.


Since it's so easy, why don't you do it for her then?

My dh doesn't even know if/when we're visiting his parents (who are a 3 hour drive away) over the Christmas holidays. Yes, Christmas is in 6 days. His family could help him by picking up the phone and calling but they won't. He's slammed. I work even longer hours, make more money, and have already planned everything else for our family and kids. No way am I adding to my burden.


Your first comment is just childish. You sound like a toddler.

As for the rest, we’ll then sure. If YOU are carrying the bigger load with money and career, yes HE should do the “emotional labor” more. See how it works? It’s called team work.


So just to be clear, you judge the amount of work someone is doing by the amount of money they make doing it?


I judged YOUR comments on YOUR situation.


OK, first of all, I'm a different poster -- there are more than one of us here who disagree with you.

Second of all, you said:

If YOU are carrying the bigger load with money and career, yes HE should do the “emotional labor” more. See how it works? It’s called team work


I want to know if you mean that money/career = the bigger load.


It says “bigger load with money and career”. The indication is that if there is a SAH partner, that partner should take on more of the domestic duties of which “emotional labor” tends to traditionally fall under. That division of the family responsibilities - one partner more career/money, the other more domestic- is as old as time. No where did I say that money/ career =the bigger load of the responsibilities. That was what YOU read into it. What YOU wanted to see. The work is pretty evenly divided. And that division of labor obviously looks different when both partners are working. I am only commenting on the SAH partner situation.


It's weird that you think you get to decide how a family with a SAHP divides up the labor. Do you also have strong feelings on who does the taxes or mows the lawn?


I seem to have touched a nerve. Go have a cup of tea and relax.


LOL! Who else had “I Touched A Nerve” on their predictable PP Bingo Card? I did, right underneath “You’re Just Jealous.”


I’m pissed - I have a “tell me I touched a nerve without telling me I touched a nerve” on my card. So close!!!


It’s a bit disturbing how you think all posts arguing a different view point from yours come from one person. There are multiple posters with views that are different from yours FYI. I’ve seen this phenomenon on other boards here on DCURBAN mom where you all make up a weird back story and character for all the posts you disagree with when clearly they aren’t all coming from one person. Seems rather mentally unstable and not based in reality. Also it’s definitely unhinged to be this angry about things on an online forum.


DP. Not a single person, other than you, has indicated there's a single person who expects women and or the SAHP to be responsible for managing IL relationships. We KNOW there are many people, women included, with this misogynistic, patriarchal, archaic opinion. I'm so very glad so many of us are aware of how toxic this is and are raising our children with different expectations.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.


Why is that the OP’s problem??

Good for you, OP! I did the same when my kids were younger and shocker: my DH didn’t pick up any of the physical or emotional labor. That has, indeed, resulted in a less close relationship with his side of the family but how/why am I supposed to do everything for both sides?!?!


There’s that ridiculous ohrase again - “emotional labor”. Gag! Stop with that nonsense. Maintaining relationships is not “liabor”. I’m not saying you have to put the work into his side of the family but that term you keep using is utter crap.


Since it's so easy, why don't you do it for her then?

My dh doesn't even know if/when we're visiting his parents (who are a 3 hour drive away) over the Christmas holidays. Yes, Christmas is in 6 days. His family could help him by picking up the phone and calling but they won't. He's slammed. I work even longer hours, make more money, and have already planned everything else for our family and kids. No way am I adding to my burden.


Your first comment is just childish. You sound like a toddler.

As for the rest, we’ll then sure. If YOU are carrying the bigger load with money and career, yes HE should do the “emotional labor” more. See how it works? It’s called team work.


So just to be clear, you judge the amount of work someone is doing by the amount of money they make doing it?


I judged YOUR comments on YOUR situation.


OK, first of all, I'm a different poster -- there are more than one of us here who disagree with you.

Second of all, you said:

If YOU are carrying the bigger load with money and career, yes HE should do the “emotional labor” more. See how it works? It’s called team work


I want to know if you mean that money/career = the bigger load.


It says “bigger load with money and career”. The indication is that if there is a SAH partner, that partner should take on more of the domestic duties of which “emotional labor” tends to traditionally fall under. That division of the family responsibilities - one partner more career/money, the other more domestic- is as old as time. No where did I say that money/ career =the bigger load of the responsibilities. That was what YOU read into it. What YOU wanted to see. The work is pretty evenly divided. And that division of labor obviously looks different when both partners are working. I am only commenting on the SAH partner situation.


It's weird that you think you get to decide how a family with a SAHP divides up the labor. Do you also have strong feelings on who does the taxes or mows the lawn?


I seem to have touched a nerve. Go have a cup of tea and relax.


LOL! Who else had “I Touched A Nerve” on their predictable PP Bingo Card? I did, right underneath “You’re Just Jealous.”


I’m pissed - I have a “tell me I touched a nerve without telling me I touched a nerve” on my card. So close!!!


It’s a bit disturbing how you think all posts arguing a different view point from yours come from one person. There are multiple posters with views that are different from yours FYI. I’ve seen this phenomenon on other boards here on DCURBAN mom where you all make up a weird back story and character for all the posts you disagree with when clearly they aren’t all coming from one person. Seems rather mentally unstable and not based in reality. Also it’s definitely unhinged to be this angry about things on an online forum.


DP. Not a single person, other than you, has indicated there's a single person who expects women and or the SAHP to be responsible for managing IL relationships. We KNOW there are many people, women included, with this misogynistic, patriarchal, archaic opinion. I'm so very glad so many of us are aware of how toxic this is and are raising our children with different expectations.


Not true. There definitely have been people answering posts assuming the identity of the poster. Go back and read more closely. I know because it’s happening to ME! People responding as if they know I also posted x,y,z.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:After a horrific blow up last spring in which I was blamed and made the scapegoat. In the summer I said to him, no more. I don’t mind seeing them but you will do 100% of the hosting and need to be home for 100% of their visit- taking off work if necessary.

Therefore, for the holidays this year we are:

Not seeing or hosting them (he never planned it)

Not exchanging adult gifts (he decided he didn’t want to do it despite me saying that for years)

Also, he was in charge of giving them all the kids gift ideas as they want specific links to things to buy for the kids and want to chose from the options. He keeps complaining about this and it’s unclear if he’s done it as of today (I have provided these links the last 13 years).

I feel so free and happier than I have been in years! Why didn’t I do this earlier?!

I will one day advise my adult daughter- do not do the work for the husbands family, make him step up and do it. You cannot win. If you do it well, no one seems to care and you have just done a ton of work. If you mess up, you’ll be criticized. None of this is good for your marriage or yourself.



I have been married for 34 years, so take my opinions as you will. 55 years old. Adult kids and now grandkids. The advise you plan to give your daughter sucks. My husband's family IS my family. My family IS his family. To be honest, you sound kinda awful. The kind of behaviors you listed do not bode well for a long, happy marriage. Be sure to prepare for life as a single mother in case I'm right.


You give yourself away with the last line. Women like you think that getting and staying married is the ultimate prize. For many of us, marriage, without an equal relationship, is a booby prize and we'd just as well be single mothers rather than having to treat our husbands as incapable children.


“You give yourself away”? What does that mean?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.


Very little. That's what effect it really has on the kids. It has a lot of effect on you though.

Kids just want to unwrap gifts. They might not love it but oh well, they got to unwrap a gift so that's good in their book and they can add it into their total gift count so they can tell their friends when comparing.

If you don't hang out with a relative when their a little kid, this doesn't mean that you can , never, ever form a relationship with them in the future. So right now the kids are building relationships with other family members. They aren't missing out. But you are missing out. Because you want a relationship with them. So that being the case, take the advice of the people in this thread and change your attitude.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Just how far are people willing to take the “your family = your responsibility” mindset?

What happens if the husband decides not to make the trip to the wife’s family during the holidays? Say he decides to stay home and play video games or go golfing instead.


When it is "the norm" for husbands to shop for their MIL's for Christmas. When MEN are wondering "hmm, I wonder what my wife's sister wants for Christmas?" and then buying, wrapping and delivering said item (AND ANY FEEDBACK ABOUT HOW IT"S NOT RIGHT). When MEN do this entirely for their wives families of origin, we can go back to debating if it should be shifted to the middle again.

The only people who argue "It's all family" or "I don't get the big deal" are people who are NOT doing the work. Because the people who are doing the work have spoken loud and clear: this is thankless grueling task that many partners take for granted until their wife drops it all in their lap.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.


That's on your nephew, not his wife.


You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.


You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.


If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.


Domestic labor IS STILL labor. She does work. She works PLENTY. Have you ever had a nanny, babysitter, housecleaner? Do you pay them? Yes. So just because a family is choosing to have one person DO THOSE THINGS so another person can work for money, it does not mean you have MORE TIME. Bc running a house and raising children is WORK.


Absolutely. And part of that work is planning the holidays, is it not? And part of that is visiting extended family in some cases, right? So still under the SAH parent’s domain. And for the record, doesn’t matter what gender the SAH parent is.


NO. Because the SAHP doesn't get to have a job that lasts 24 hours a day all day every day, while the other partner has set work hours. The "off work" hours for the working parent are the time they have to dedicate to the care and keeping of their family of origin. If they aren't doing that, that's ON THEM.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:After a horrific blow up last spring in which I was blamed and made the scapegoat. In the summer I said to him, no more. I don’t mind seeing them but you will do 100% of the hosting and need to be home for 100% of their visit- taking off work if necessary.

Therefore, for the holidays this year we are:

Not seeing or hosting them (he never planned it)

Not exchanging adult gifts (he decided he didn’t want to do it despite me saying that for years)

Also, he was in charge of giving them all the kids gift ideas as they want specific links to things to buy for the kids and want to chose from the options. He keeps complaining about this and it’s unclear if he’s done it as of today (I have provided these links the last 13 years).

I feel so free and happier than I have been in years! Why didn’t I do this earlier?!

I will one day advise my adult daughter- do not do the work for the husbands family, make him step up and do it. You cannot win. If you do it well, no one seems to care and you have just done a ton of work. If you mess up, you’ll be criticized. None of this is good for your marriage or yourself.



I have been married for 34 years, so take my opinions as you will. 55 years old. Adult kids and now grandkids. The advise you plan to give your daughter sucks. My husband's family IS my family. My family IS his family. To be honest, you sound kinda awful. The kind of behaviors you listed do not bode well for a long, happy marriage. Be sure to prepare for life as a single mother in case I'm right.


You give yourself away with the last line. Women like you think that getting and staying married is the ultimate prize. For many of us, marriage, without an equal relationship, is a booby prize and we'd just as well be single mothers rather than having to treat our husbands as incapable children.


“You give yourself away”? What does that mean?


You post one thing but really mean another. The poster makes it sound like this is about recognizing family, but she is worried about ending up alone.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Honest question. Do single men just never see their families? Without a wife to set up visits will be single men never see their mothers again


I have asked DH what he did before me- sometimes jokingly, but I really did wonder how he fed himself and what he did for holidays/birthdays because they don't interest him at all. Apparently his MIL/SIL would pick out gifts for him and have him send them money.

I go through the routine of getting gift cards for SIL/BIL and gifts for their kids (who are older now and really just want gift cards or money anyway). But I am continually at a loss what to get his parents, and this year I put it on him. Not entirely, I sent them ornaments the kids made and a small photo collage from shutterfly. But that's all. Whereas they always send a lot. I know he won't do anything else, but I'm just spent.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.


Why is that the OP’s problem??

Good for you, OP! I did the same when my kids were younger and shocker: my DH didn’t pick up any of the physical or emotional labor. That has, indeed, resulted in a less close relationship with his side of the family but how/why am I supposed to do everything for both sides?!?!


There’s that ridiculous ohrase again - “emotional labor”. Gag! Stop with that nonsense. Maintaining relationships is not “liabor”. I’m not saying you have to put the work into his side of the family but that term you keep using is utter crap.


Since it's so easy, why don't you do it for her then?

My dh doesn't even know if/when we're visiting his parents (who are a 3 hour drive away) over the Christmas holidays. Yes, Christmas is in 6 days. His family could help him by picking up the phone and calling but they won't. He's slammed. I work even longer hours, make more money, and have already planned everything else for our family and kids. No way am I adding to my burden.


Your first comment is just childish. You sound like a toddler.

As for the rest, we’ll then sure. If YOU are carrying the bigger load with money and career, yes HE should do the “emotional labor” more. See how it works? It’s called team work.


So just to be clear, you judge the amount of work someone is doing by the amount of money they make doing it?


I judged YOUR comments on YOUR situation.


OK, first of all, I'm a different poster -- there are more than one of us here who disagree with you.

Second of all, you said:

If YOU are carrying the bigger load with money and career, yes HE should do the “emotional labor” more. See how it works? It’s called team work


I want to know if you mean that money/career = the bigger load.


It says “bigger load with money and career”. The indication is that if there is a SAH partner, that partner should take on more of the domestic duties of which “emotional labor” tends to traditionally fall under. That division of the family responsibilities - one partner more career/money, the other more domestic- is as old as time. No where did I say that money/ career =the bigger load of the responsibilities. That was what YOU read into it. What YOU wanted to see. The work is pretty evenly divided. And that division of labor obviously looks different when both partners are working. I am only commenting on the SAH partner situation.


It's weird that you think you get to decide how a family with a SAHP divides up the labor. Do you also have strong feelings on who does the taxes or mows the lawn?


I seem to have touched a nerve. Go have a cup of tea and relax.


LOL! Who else had “I Touched A Nerve” on their predictable PP Bingo Card? I did, right underneath “You’re Just Jealous.”


I’m pissed - I have a “tell me I touched a nerve without telling me I touched a nerve” on my card. So close!!!


It’s a bit disturbing how you think all posts arguing a different view point from yours come from one person. There are multiple posters with views that are different from yours FYI. I’ve seen this phenomenon on other boards here on DCURBAN mom where you all make up a weird back story and character for all the posts you disagree with when clearly they aren’t all coming from one person. Seems rather mentally unstable and not based in reality. Also it’s definitely unhinged to be this angry about things on an online forum.


DP. Not a single person, other than you, has indicated there's a single person who expects women and or the SAHP to be responsible for managing IL relationships. We KNOW there are many people, women included, with this misogynistic, patriarchal, archaic opinion. I'm so very glad so many of us are aware of how toxic this is and are raising our children with different expectations.


Not true. There definitely have been people answering posts assuming the identity of the poster. Go back and read more closely. I know because it’s happening to ME! People responding as if they know I also posted x,y,z.


I'm not going back to look. I already told you that we know you aren't the only misogynist posting on this thread.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just how far are people willing to take the “your family = your responsibility” mindset?

What happens if the husband decides not to make the trip to the wife’s family during the holidays? Say he decides to stay home and play video games or go golfing instead.


When it is "the norm" for husbands to shop for their MIL's for Christmas. When MEN are wondering "hmm, I wonder what my wife's sister wants for Christmas?" and then buying, wrapping and delivering said item (AND ANY FEEDBACK ABOUT HOW IT"S NOT RIGHT). When MEN do this entirely for their wives families of origin, we can go back to debating if it should be shifted to the middle again.

The only people who argue "It's all family" or "I don't get the big deal" are people who are NOT doing the work. Because the people who are doing the work have spoken loud and clear: this is thankless grueling task that many partners take for granted until their wife drops it all in their lap.

... and furthermore, when it does get dropped for the husband to pick up, the wife gets blamed by in-laws if the husband does a bad job of it. I VERY early on in my relationship took a the approach of each of us being the point person for our respective families. Unfortunately, his family sees me as shirking my responsibility (because I have ovaries, I guess) to be the cruise director and maintainer of relationships, shopper of presents, sender of cards, keeper of the calendar. I don't mind taking the hit for things not getting done the exact way they seem to think that it should, but hot damn that is some sexist nonsense.
Anonymous
I have to say: I’m so grateful there are so many women here who refuse to participate in this thankless BS anymore. Thank You!
Anonymous
I've been married five years. The first two or three years I spent countless hours picking out the prefect presents (presents!) for my husband's five (FIVE) siblings, all of their spouses and all of their kids. His family is huge on Christmas and presents and mine isn't so I thought it was fun.

Then one year I got one present total from his family: a cookbook for dogs. A dog cookbook.

I stopped and never looked back.
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