Women expecting other women to be in charge of all holidays/logistics/family dynamics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

I agree. I’m a poster that never picked up the rope with my husband’s family. But he literally cannot cook a thing so I’m bringing a couple of things on Thursday. My husband’s family is SUPER old fashioned. They live in a small southern town like it is the 1950s. They belong to a religion with no drinking, dancing or gambling. It is actually bananas to me that they have never expected me to pick up the rope. The only reason that makes sense to me is that my hsuband didn’t marry until he was 40. So they had a lot of years of just dealing with him. The majority of the 65 and older crown definitely thinks women run the calendar, the food, the gifts, etc. I just lucked out.

I do think marrying older men helps. I met dh in college and my inlaws really never had holidays with him as an adult post college. I think if they had, they would have lowered their expectations.

DH loves to cook and so do all the guys in my family. In my family, the men are always perfecting grandma's recipe and roasting/frying the turkey.

The thing I can't get DH to do is plan trips/holidays with his parents or decorate for the holidays. He just cannot decorate or plan out more events in December. Like our kids really want to go to the Nutcracker. If you don't buy tickets in November, the seats will be terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I opted out. My H does that stuff because he enjoys it.

I will empower my daughter to opt out too and any DILs I might have.

I’m happy going out to eat. In fact, I prefer that to making people cook and host.

I'm guessing your daughter won't opt out and she'll take on that roll and whatever mil shows her and then blame you for not knowing things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don't do anything special for Thanksgiving. We usually eat takeout from the previous day. When we lived in the south, we would do something outdoors. The most important thing is to be with family and friends.

That might work for you, but I doubt it will work once your kids get married. If dh's family did nothing on Thanksgiving and didn't have a big turkey on the table, I wouldn't attend. That's kind of sad.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

I agree. I’m a poster that never picked up the rope with my husband’s family. But he literally cannot cook a thing so I’m bringing a couple of things on Thursday. My husband’s family is SUPER old fashioned. They live in a small southern town like it is the 1950s. They belong to a religion with no drinking, dancing or gambling. It is actually bananas to me that they have never expected me to pick up the rope. The only reason that makes sense to me is that my hsuband didn’t marry until he was 40. So they had a lot of years of just dealing with him. The majority of the 65 and older crown definitely thinks women run the calendar, the food, the gifts, etc. I just lucked out.

I do think marrying older men helps. I met dh in college and my inlaws really never had holidays with him as an adult post college. I think if they had, they would have lowered their expectations.

DH loves to cook and so do all the guys in my family. In my family, the men are always perfecting grandma's recipe and roasting/frying the turkey.

The thing I can't get DH to do is plan trips/holidays with his parents or decorate for the holidays. He just cannot decorate or plan out more events in December. Like our kids really want to go to the Nutcracker. If you don't buy tickets in November, the seats will be terrible.

Why should he? You are just as capable. It's no better for you to opt out of all holiday organizing and then complain than it would be if he did it to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

Perpetuating and enabling is perpetuating and enabling, no matter which gender commits it.

So you’re fine laying at the feet of every woman fixing the patriarchy by not fixing dinner. Don’t you see that’s asking women to do WAY MORE WORK than dinner? Sorry, I’m just not interested in correcting and calling out my whole extended family/in-laws. That’s not fun or pleasant for me. And I won’t be convinced I am a bad feminist if I don’t. Go ahead and tell my husband he’s a bad feminist for not intervening. You can find him on Hacker News, not DCUM.

Hey, modeling for your kids that holidays and family dynamics are women’s work—that’s cool, just don’t be surprised when your son is completely disengaged in the future, and your daughter is disenchanted with your sexist antics and refuses to participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

Perpetuating and enabling is perpetuating and enabling, no matter which gender commits it.

So you’re fine laying at the feet of every woman fixing the patriarchy by not fixing dinner. Don’t you see that’s asking women to do WAY MORE WORK than dinner? Sorry, I’m just not interested in correcting and calling out my whole extended family/in-laws. That’s not fun or pleasant for me. And I won’t be convinced I am a bad feminist if I don’t. Go ahead and tell my husband he’s a bad feminist for not intervening. You can find him on Hacker News, not DCUM.

Hey, modeling for your kids that holidays and family dynamics are women’s work—that’s cool, just don’t be surprised when your son is completely disengaged in the future, and your daughter is disenchanted with your sexist antics and refuses to participate.

Don't be surprised when your son's marry women the total opposite of you. Don't be surprised when your daughter is happy to take on the oppressed role.
Don't be surprised when they both opt out of celebrating the holidays with you having grown tired of your antics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

I’m not getting this vibe. Instead, the message seems to be that women don’t want to be assumed to be the person in charge of holidays and meals just because we have a vagina. I don’t think any one on here has said that women should not have any involvement with Thanksgiving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't do anything special for Thanksgiving. We usually eat takeout from the previous day. When we lived in the south, we would do something outdoors. The most important thing is to be with family and friends.

That might work for you, but I doubt it will work once your kids get married. If dh's family did nothing on Thanksgiving and didn't have a big turkey on the table, I wouldn't attend. That's kind of sad.

I would love it. Count me in. Doing something outdoors instead of all the cooking, clean up, nonstop talk about recipes. Sign me up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

Perpetuating and enabling is perpetuating and enabling, no matter which gender commits it.

So you’re fine laying at the feet of every woman fixing the patriarchy by not fixing dinner. Don’t you see that’s asking women to do WAY MORE WORK than dinner? Sorry, I’m just not interested in correcting and calling out my whole extended family/in-laws. That’s not fun or pleasant for me. And I won’t be convinced I am a bad feminist if I don’t. Go ahead and tell my husband he’s a bad feminist for not intervening. You can find him on Hacker News, not DCUM.

Hey, modeling for your kids that holidays and family dynamics are women’s work—that’s cool, just don’t be surprised when your son is completely disengaged in the future, and your daughter is disenchanted with your sexist antics and refuses to participate.

Don't be surprised when your son's marry women the total opposite of you. Don't be surprised when your daughter is happy to take on the oppressed role.
Don't be surprised when they both opt out of celebrating the holidays with you having grown tired of your antics.

+1 your children are not clay for you to shape. I know so many MILs who are shocked their DILs are SAHMs, parents shocked their children raised atheist converted to Catholicism or children raised catholic converted to Judaism, college professors shocked their kids became blue collar workers… you are not baking a cake that will be the result of your recipe. You’re just tagging along with another human while they figure out who to be.

[Anonymous]

I like the answer above!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

Nice try. It wasn’t “bragging,” it was correcting the throw-your-hands-up-in-the-air “universal truth” that all men are completely hapless and disengaged when it comes to holidays. I’m sure we can trade anecdata all day, but the bottom line is, don’t excuse the disengaged men by making it A Man Thing. It’s not. It’s a lazy, entitled, coddled man thing. It’s not some foregone conclusion about men, it’s something we all as mothers, wives, sisters, and daughters can take direct action to help change—in addition to the change that men of all ages can change about themselves and society as a whole.

Nope. The posts I'm referring to were feigning "confusion" about this dynamic. That's not correcting. It's also not feminism.

Also, for the record, I never said it was a "universal truth" - I specifically referenced older generations because this dynamic is far more common among them. I can have higher expectations of my husbands and sons than my mom had of my dad without, you know, thinking I'm a better person my mom and others of her generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

Perpetuating and enabling is perpetuating and enabling, no matter which gender commits it.

So you’re fine laying at the feet of every woman fixing the patriarchy by not fixing dinner. Don’t you see that’s asking women to do WAY MORE WORK than dinner? Sorry, I’m just not interested in correcting and calling out my whole extended family/in-laws. That’s not fun or pleasant for me. And I won’t be convinced I am a bad feminist if I don’t. Go ahead and tell my husband he’s a bad feminist for not intervening. You can find him on Hacker News, not DCUM.

If nothing changes, then nothing changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I told my in-laws repeatedly early in our marriage that my DH and I both had large families and had agreed that he handled all holidays/gifts/thank you notes etc for his side and I would for mine. They could not wrap their minds around this and for years I’d get passive aggressive texts about all this stuff. I just ignored and forwarded to him. Sometimes he handled stuff, sometimes he wouldn’t. Yeah, they got a lot of random last minute panic purchased Harry and David gift baskets from him over the years, instead of more personal gifts, but oh well. I know they thought badly of me but it had literally zero impact bon my day to day life.

DH and I have been together nearly 30 years. The first Christmas DH and I were together in the States (we met during an overseas posting and were living together before moving back to the US), I bought things for his family because I knew I'd be the 'bad girlfriend' if his relatives got nothing. The second year, I decided I was done. I told him that his choices were to buy gifts for his relatives or let them know we'd be making a donation in their name to charity and they should do the same rather than get anything for us. He chose the donation route.

I'm sure you can imagine the blowback I got for this. It was all part of a pattern where my ILs and DH's extended family expected me to conform to their ideas (sometimes patriarchal) of what an outside female should do to be included in their family. I dropped the rope. I have my own family and friends and didn't need them. After we had kids, they extended an olive branch because DH was indifferent/disorganized and they did want to see him and the kids. Of course, they have themselves to blame because DH was taught that the women do all that stuff and it wasn't important to him.

It's not been easy to navigate this with DH's family but I'm glad I've drawn the line. I don't mind helping but I refuse to accept primary responsibility. I'm raising my kids differently but it's still hard because societal expectation are still very much gender based.

You sound awesome. Good decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IF DH disappeared all day on Tgiving day to golf, he sure as hell would be 100% in charge of the kids adn cooking all day the next day while i slept and shopped online.

We do this every thanksgiving with my father. I am a much better golfer than my DH. Love it!