Women expecting other women to be in charge of all holidays/logistics/family dynamics

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My MIL stopped texting me about this stuff when I kept making my husband text her back. I suggest y'all do the same.

This. The only texting I engage in with my MIL is to say happy birthday or other special greetings to one another. She kept trying to make family dynamics my thing and I just—never picked it up. I told FIL to his face to stop asking me to ask my husband to call more, because I’m not a secretary. I told him to his face the phone works both ways, and if he wants the son he raised to call, he should pick up the phone and ask for just that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My MIL stopped texting me about this stuff when I kept making my husband text her back. I suggest y'all do the same.

This. The only texting I engage in with my MIL is to say happy birthday or other special greetings to one another. She kept trying to make family dynamics my thing and I just—never picked it up. I told FIL to his face to stop asking me to ask my husband to call more, because I’m not a secretary. I told him to his face the phone works both ways, and if he wants the son he raised to call, he should pick up the phone and ask for just that.

This here too, and I do it with DH, who tries to delegate his personal shopping and other tasks to me (we both work fulltime + jobs). Problem is, when I won't do it, he then delegates to his mother, and MIL is more than happy to enable this childishness (and gossip to anyone who will listen about all the things she "has" to do for her son).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what also pisses me off? When Dh punts it back to me. His parents will ask what the plans are for the holiday and he’ll say “let me see what wife is planning.” Or “can you ask wife?” Or when he doesn’t want to do something he’ll say “sounds good! Let me see if it’s okay with wife” and then he makes it sound like it’s my fault that we aren’t doing the activity. I had a come to Jesus conversation with Dh around this, but he just can’t stop.

Tell in-laws that he said that won’t work for him. Even though it’s his responsibility to convey it, you might have to choose between communicating with them directly, or continue to let him blame you.

[Anonymous]

I opted out. My H does that stuff because he enjoys it.

I will empower my daughter to opt out too and any DILs I might have.

I’m happy going out to eat. In fact, I prefer that to making people cook and host.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

Perpetuating and enabling is perpetuating and enabling, no matter which gender commits it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

[Anonymous]

My husband's family has a golf tournament on Thanksgiving that only the men are invited to. The women cook and stay home with the kids. The first year I went I was a bit shocked that all the men in the family were gone literally all day - like left first thing in the morning and came back drunk a bit before dinnertime. I've tried bringing up the ridiculous sexist division and overall behavior but I think I'm alone in this.
We are going this year after a many year absence. I put on a cute golf outfit yesterday and told my husband I was going to go golf with the men...it was sort of a joke but I'm tempted to really do it. Someone would have to watch my kids though. And I would be really uncomfortable.

This is outrageous! I'd be totally pissed and wouldn't be a part of it. If golf is for men only, I'd be spending my Thanksgiving elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

IF DH disappeared all day on Tgiving day to golf, he sure as hell would be 100% in charge of the kids adn cooking all day the next day while i slept and shopped online.

[Anonymous]

We don't do anything special for Thanksgiving. We usually eat takeout from the previous day. When we lived in the south, we would do something outdoors. The most important thing is to be with family and friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

I really think you are missing the point of this particular discussion. Women can choose to not do a thing. When they don’t do it, their spouse sometimes does it or sometimes doesn’t. I’m the PP whose DH didn’t get his mom a birthday gift this year. It’s fine. I am having the holiday I want with my own family. If I don’t do certain things, they just don’t get done. Therefore I am doing the things that are important to me and the things that are not are not getting done. It’s the best I can do for my marriage and I’m ok with it (but not ok with his family blaming me for not doing his stuff). Some things will take another generation. My preschool age son already knows how to cook better than my husband does.

I mean, maybe some of this stuff just doesn't need to be done? If the husband doesn't care about some tradition, and it's too much for the wife to do it on her own, why not just stop doing it?

I think most people would enjoy a holiday like Thanksgiving more if it was a lower-key event where you hang out with family and ordered Chinese takeout.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

Nice try. It wasn’t “bragging,” it was correcting the throw-your-hands-up-in-the-air “universal truth” that all men are completely hapless and disengaged when it comes to holidays. I’m sure we can trade anecdata all day, but the bottom line is, don’t excuse the disengaged men by making it A Man Thing. It’s not. It’s a lazy, entitled, coddled man thing. It’s not some foregone conclusion about men, it’s something we all as mothers, wives, sisters, and daughters can take direct action to help change—in addition to the change that men of all ages can change about themselves and society as a whole.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

Perpetuating and enabling is perpetuating and enabling, no matter which gender commits it.

So you’re fine laying at the feet of every woman fixing the patriarchy by not fixing dinner. Don’t you see that’s asking women to do WAY MORE WORK than dinner? Sorry, I’m just not interested in correcting and calling out my whole extended family/in-laws. That’s not fun or pleasant for me. And I won’t be convinced I am a bad feminist if I don’t. Go ahead and tell my husband he’s a bad feminist for not intervening. You can find him on Hacker News, not DCUM.