Can you tell me about upscale southern culture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My H comes from a family like this one. Old southern $$$, probably mixed with slavery. Incredible furniture and valuable antiques with guns unlocked in random places in the house. Kids get smacked if they say anything that can be interpreted as cursing. Everyone is dressed up all the time, including the kids. Good china all the time. Formula feeding. Gossip. OMG, the gossip and backstabbing. I'm European and they are worse than us about gossiping. Racism. Manners are huge, also hypocrisy. The younger generation drinks way way too much. Vacation houses in Alys Beach. UVA and Princeton are the only respectable school choices. Lots and lots of plastic surgery. GOP.

What happened to Duke? Emory?

I have no clue; we went to Brown, where the devil is in charge with the education lol. They are Baptists, so allegedly alcohol free, and the teens drink heavily while also boating. Have I mentioned the hypocrisy? They all have gorgeous, big houses but with the master on the first floor, so I suspect they do hard core sleep training with the infants.

Oh sh&t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And the babies wear frilly headbands with bows!

Wrong. Not your "old money" types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from poor white trash who went to southern private schools for 16 years, both k-12 and college, I am an outside observer on the subject of southern rich people.

Some are casually racist, some are not. Usually the richer and more well educated they are, the less classist and racist they are (in my experience) and try to make everyone feel welcome.

The warnings:

If the family welcomes all family members, they will usually have a number of eccentric family members they are fine with. And gay uncle Larlo and his partner Miles, for example, will be invited and embraced at family events, even if they aren't completely out. See, at least partially: a famous politician from SC.

Not all rich southern families are casually racist, but again, those with less money and less education than others are more likely to be racist than the richer, more educated families.

Beware any rich southerners who are still South Baptist or evangelical--they are the most likely to be racist. Episcopalians and Presbyterians, less so.

If I were your DD, I would plan for a longer engagement--she will need it if planning a large wedding that includes the groom's whole family and their old friends.

The one thing I have seen trip up people who marry into rich "old" southern families are the expectations: she needs to figure out what expectations there may be before actually getting married.

Does his family expect them to go to the family vacation house every single year, no matter what?
Does his family expect the couple to live near them, no matter what?

Does his family expect her to dress and act a particular way? (for example, many of the wealthier southern women I know have a fairly strict unwritten dress code, unless they are considered "eccentric.") It's fine to be eccentric, but there will be pressure to conform, which may continue on if they family is really conservative.

Does his family expect women to stay home and not work after they have children? Do any of his female family members work after having children?

If his family is old southern money, they are used to getting what they want. Your dd needs to observe his family and especially the female relatives, to see if there are any expectations they might not be talking about, which they assume everyone knows about already.

I've known really welcoming, wonderful, generous "old money" southern families, and then I've known others that could have stepped out of a southern gothic novel from the 1950s.

This is pretty much the only person on this thread that knows what they are talking about.

FWIW, a person living in the South will have more social and business interactions with people of color on a daily basis than most Northerners. I grew up in the South, and live there now, and Washington, DC was the most segregated place I ever lived.

+1 to the above list and to comment about interactions with people in the south. So much of this reads like a summary of tv stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

When I lived in the Deep South, I spent a lot more time with black people than I do now in DC. I went to school with them, played sports with them. Traveled to school events and sat together on the bus. I'd call them friends, and I think it was reciprocal.

North Arlington is nowhere near as integrated as my life in a southern state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I lived in the Deep South, I spent a lot more time with black people than I do now in DC. I went to school with them, played sports with them. Traveled to school events and sat together on the bus. I'd call them friends, and I think it was reciprocal.

North Arlington is nowhere near as integrated as my life in a southern state.

North Arlington is nowhere near as integrated as Montgomery or Fairfax, much less Georgia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of these posters seem to have no firsthand knowledge, and many stereotypes are either inaccurate or 50 years out of date. These days, many women in these families have great careers themselves. Lots of women under 60 wearing on trend clothing, not stuff our parents wore 40 years ago. Many Southern towns have great local arts scenes, and people under 60 are well traveled and cultured.

I also agree with the cold segregation of the North and the WOTP DC moms with the BLM signs working so hard to keep those brown kids out of their schools. I can't stand this type of hypocritical Northern left-wing racist liberal.

Same. They're also the ones who need constant, and I do mean constant, reassurance that they aren't racist/bad people/are examples for all/etc. They're an exhausting bunch that's addicted to anxiety.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My H comes from a family like this one. Old southern $$$, probably mixed with slavery. Incredible furniture and valuable antiques with guns unlocked in random places in the house. Kids get smacked if they say anything that can be interpreted as cursing. Everyone is dressed up all the time, including the kids. Good china all the time. Formula feeding. Gossip. OMG, the gossip and backstabbing. I'm European and they are worse than us about gossiping. Racism. Manners are huge, also hypocrisy. The younger generation drinks way way too much. Vacation houses in Alys Beach. UVA and Princeton are the only respectable school choices. Lots and lots of plastic surgery. GOP.

What happened to Duke? Emory?

I have no clue; we went to Brown, where the devil is in charge with the education lol. They are Baptists, so allegedly alcohol free, and the teens drink heavily while also boating. Have I mentioned the hypocrisy? They all have gorgeous, big houses but with the master on the first floor, so I suspect they do hard core sleep training with the infants.

Oh sh&t.

The master bedroom is on the first floor in most houses in the south. I thought it was because of the heat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I lived in the Deep South, I spent a lot more time with black people than I do now in DC. I went to school with them, played sports with them. Traveled to school events and sat together on the bus. I'd call them friends, and I think it was reciprocal.

North Arlington is nowhere near as integrated as my life in a southern state.

North Arlington is nowhere near as integrated as Montgomery or Fairfax, much less Georgia.

There's a long history of racial housing discrimination in Arlington. Redlining and restrictive covenants led to segregated neighborhoods, and the effects are still noticeable today. Some people living in North Arlington still have restrictive covenants (now unenforceable) on their deeds.

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2020/08/VirginiaTech_ArlingtonStudy_HistoryofResidentialDevelopmentandPlanning.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bless your heart!

Indeed.

Yes, upscale Southerners are beautiful, cultured, and educated. Children are raised with manners, style, and charm. Boys look you in the eye when they shake your hand and girls know to compliment the hostess on her home decor. Mothers dress very well and coordinate the clothing of the entire family. Beachy brands like Vineyard Vines, Southern Tide, etc. They take professional family portraits for their holiday cards. Monogrammed stationery and hand-written thank you notes.

You forgot racist.

Why do people from the West/East coast pretend like they've got no racists? Or that all southerners are racist? I mean, have you been to PA, MD? Or even NY, MD? I was in NY the other day and I saw just as many Trump bumper stickers/flags as I did here in VA. New England and all of the E coast has their fair share of racists. As far as I'm concerned, they're just rednecks in the cold. And CA, OR, WA? Pfft. A haven for white supremacists. Stop pretending like it's just the South. Such a flawed premise that lets the rest of the country off easy.

[Anonymous]

i think it's weird how people get so captivated by southern people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from poor white trash who went to southern private schools for 16 years, both k-12 and college, I am an outside observer on the subject of southern rich people.

Some are casually racist, some are not. Usually the richer and more well educated they are, the less classist and racist they are (in my experience) and try to make everyone feel welcome.

The warnings:

If the family welcomes all family members, they will usually have a number of eccentric family members they are fine with. And gay uncle Larlo and his partner Miles, for example, will be invited and embraced at family events, even if they aren't completely out. See, at least partially: a famous politician from SC.

Not all rich southern families are casually racist, but again, those with less money and less education than others are more likely to be racist than the richer, more educated families.

Beware any rich southerners who are still South Baptist or evangelical--they are the most likely to be racist. Episcopalians and Presbyterians, less so.

If I were your DD, I would plan for a longer engagement--she will need it if planning a large wedding that includes the groom's whole family and their old friends.

The one thing I have seen trip up people who marry into rich "old" southern families are the expectations: she needs to figure out what expectations there may be before actually getting married.

Does his family expect them to go to the family vacation house every single year, no matter what?
Does his family expect the couple to live near them, no matter what?

Does his family expect her to dress and act a particular way? (for example, many of the wealthier southern women I know have a fairly strict unwritten dress code, unless they are considered "eccentric.") It's fine to be eccentric, but there will be pressure to conform, which may continue on if they family is really conservative.

Does his family expect women to stay home and not work after they have children? Do any of his female family members work after having children?

If his family is old southern money, they are used to getting what they want. Your dd needs to observe his family and especially the female relatives, to see if there are any expectations they might not be talking about, which they assume everyone knows about already.

I've known really welcoming, wonderful, generous "old money" southern families, and then I've known others that could have stepped out of a southern gothic novel from the 1950s.

This is pretty much the only person on this thread that knows what they are talking about.

FWIW, a person living in the South will have more social and business interactions with people of color on a daily basis than most Northerners. I grew up in the South, and live there now, and Washington, DC was the most segregated place I ever lived.

Both of these are spot on. Some also have a bit of a chip on their shoulder about being considered less than or racist or redneck or whatever so they really put on a show in front of non-southerners and get offended at the slightest questions. (That said, there is a lot of assumptions made about Southerners that don't apply to many- i.e. that they're not well-traveled or well-educated or whatever). There are definitely interesting decorating and personal grooming norms, like you don't see women going gray until they are actual grandmas, and the decor is very traditional. The rich Southern family I married into has A LOT of unreasonable expectations of adult children staying obedient to the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i think it's weird how people get so captivated by southern people.

Hilarious!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My H comes from a family like this one. Old southern $$$, probably mixed with slavery. Incredible furniture and valuable antiques with guns unlocked in random places in the house. Kids get smacked if they say anything that can be interpreted as cursing. Everyone is dressed up all the time, including the kids. Good china all the time. Formula feeding. Gossip. OMG, the gossip and backstabbing. I'm European and they are worse than us about gossiping. Racism. Manners are huge, also hypocrisy. The younger generation drinks way way too much. Vacation houses in Alys Beach. UVA and Princeton are the only respectable school choices. Lots and lots of plastic surgery. GOP.

What happened to Duke? Emory?

I have no clue; we went to Brown, where the devil is in charge with the education lol. They are Baptists, so allegedly alcohol free, and the teens drink heavily while also boating. Have I mentioned the hypocrisy? They all have gorgeous, big houses but with the master on the first floor, so I suspect they do hard core sleep training with the infants.

Oh sh&t.

This is so funny b/c "Moms on Call" books/method/FB group is SO popular in the South. I remember (and this was a few years ago) I did a search for the term on DCUM and only got like one hit. (not relevant but the schedules are great!! but I didn't do the CIO at 12 weeks b/c that was a bit much for me...).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i think it's weird how people get so captivated by southern people.

Hilarious!

it's like they are aliens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have no clue; we went to Brown, where the devil is in charge with the education lol. They are Baptists, so allegedly alcohol free, and the teens drink heavily while also boating. Have I mentioned the hypocrisy? They all have gorgeous, big houses but with the master on the first floor, so I suspect they do hard core sleep training with the infants.

If they are wealthy wouldn't they just have a night nanny to deal with the middle of the night wakings?