PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder

[Anonymous]

The privilege on display here is sad, but unsurprising.

[Anonymous]

I know lots of people who use my saviors name in vain. Don't see a lot of respect for my sacred traditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

Nice to see you being so respectful of other people.

How is it respectful for YOU to try to tell others what to call gatherings held at THEIR church? Tell me how that is respectful.

The whole "as long as" or "well then do this" attitude of some on this thread is extremely disrespectful. It's basically mansplaining, if you will. I am part of a faith community that traditionally hosts a Passover Supper. You don't have to approve of that. You don't have to like that. It doesn't have to please you.

Just like the Jewish practice of circumcision (which yes, I know is practiced by many religions, including Christianity) doesn't have to please me. It's not a choice I made for my family, but I'm not out here criticizing or telling you not to or giving you conditions. You do you. I do me. That's respect.

I posted several articles explaining why it’s disrespectful.

Maybe read them and learn.

Would you like it if someone burned a Cross under the guise of their religion?

Are you a KKK member?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

Nice to see you being so respectful of other people.

How is it respectful for YOU to try to tell others what to call gatherings held at THEIR church? Tell me how that is respectful.

The whole "as long as" or "well then do this" attitude of some on this thread is extremely disrespectful. It's basically mansplaining, if you will. I am part of a faith community that traditionally hosts a Passover Supper. You don't have to approve of that. You don't have to like that. It doesn't have to please you.

Just like the Jewish practice of circumcision (which yes, I know is practiced by many religions, including Christianity) doesn't have to please me. It's not a choice I made for my family, but I'm not out here criticizing or telling you not to or giving you conditions. You do you. I do me. That's respect.

I posted several articles explaining why it’s disrespectful.

Maybe read them and learn.

Would you like it if someone burned a Cross under the guise of their religion?

Are you a KKK member?

If it’s the expression of my religion, then I should be able to do it, right? Under your logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you should be allowed to drink green beer unless you're irish so please refrain from doing so. Also no polka dancing unless you are polish.

Are those sacred things?

We’re asking you all to be respectful of our sacred traditions.

BTW the polka is a Polish American thing, and only trickled back to Poland from the US (like US styled St Patrick’s Day trickled back to Ireland). I think the polka originated with the Czechs(?). So not a great example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you should be allowed to drink green beer unless you're irish so please refrain from doing so. Also no polka dancing unless you are polish.

Are those sacred things?

We’re asking you all to be respectful of our sacred traditions.

BTW the polka is a Polish American thing, and only trickled back to Poland from the US (like US styled St Patrick’s Day trickled back to Ireland). I think the polka originated with the Czechs(?). So not a great example.

It’s also not sacred, to my knowledge.

Passover is an important holiday that’s steeped in the telling of our story as a Jewish people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know lots of people who use my saviors name in vain. Don't see a lot of respect for my sacred traditions.

You have the right to be upset by that, just as we have the right to be upset about Christians having Christian Seders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a subversion of a sacred Jewish tradition. That’s why it’s offensive.

Would you question why a Muslim finds people drawing Mohammed offensive? Or why a Christian would find burning the Cross offensive?

But Christians trying to celebrate a Passover are not drawing offensive pictures or burning Jewish symbols. They are viewing it as something sacred and observing it as respectfully as they know how. I understand that many Jewish posters feel that they are doing it incorrectly and that to do it at all is inappropriate, but they are doing so to honor a part of their religious heritage which has tremendous meaning for them.

Perhaps a better hypothetical would be if a Christian would find it offensive if a non-Christian practiced Baptism or the Lord's Supper as part of another religion's observance. I won't speak for all Christians, but personally, while I might view it as misguided and ineffective, I would not take offense at sincere, reverent worship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

yeah well - with that attitude, don’t then be surprised when actual Jewish people are upset at you. You can choose to be offensive, but you can’t escape the consequences.

Yup. I feel like this whole “we’ll do what we want” attitude smacks of such privilege.

Clearly these people have never had to worry that their traditions might be assimilated and lost. They don’t understand.

Anything that is "lost" is likely because you belong to a religion that very strictly bars outsiders from entry. Ever thought of that?

Me doing what I do in my church does not have anything to do with what you do in your household or in your place of worship. Maybe if someone from your community finds their way to my church and is interested and engaged, it is literally because the motto of my particular house of worship is "All are welcome, and all means all."

Really? Church is a welcoming place? Tell that to my best friend who is having a hard time finding a place to baptize his baby daughter because he is a man married to another man.

dp Sorry pp but, do you force yourself into an organization where your ideals and theirs don't mix? I don't think that if the church believes that gay marriage is against their beliefs they should be forced to accept them. What if a homophonic wanted to join a gay pride parade? Would you expect the gays to accept them? Of course not.

This is not what I believe but, there are churches for everyone. Your friend hasn't found the right one.

I mean I believe in accepting everyone but I don't believe in forcing a church to baptize a child. It isn't needed.

[Anonymous]

Catholic here and I know a number of parishes that have celebrated Passover Seder. I think it’s not needed and a more than a bit insulting to Jewish people from an appropriation perspective. The ones I’ve been to were shallow and most attendees I suspect had only a minimal understanding of what Passover is. If I was an invited to a Jewish person’s house for Seder, I would consider it an utmost honor and do my best to participate quietly and respectfully but understand fully it is not about me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a subversion of a sacred Jewish tradition. That’s why it’s offensive.

Would you question why a Muslim finds people drawing Mohammed offensive? Or why a Christian would find burning the Cross offensive?

But Christians trying to celebrate a Passover are not drawing offensive pictures or burning Jewish symbols. They are viewing it as something sacred and observing it as respectfully as they know how. I understand that many Jewish posters feel that they are doing it incorrectly and that to do it at all is inappropriate, but they are doing so to honor a part of their religious heritage which has tremendous meaning for them.

Perhaps a better hypothetical would be if a Christian would find it offensive if a non-Christian practiced Baptism or the Lord's Supper as part of another religion's observance. I won't speak for all Christians, but personally, while I might view it as misguided and ineffective, I would not take offense at sincere, reverent worship.

Except the last supper wasn’t even a Passover Seder. So it’s inaccurate to say it has meaning for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Catholic here and I know a number of parishes that have celebrated Passover Seder. I think it’s not needed and a more than a bit insulting to Jewish people from an appropriation perspective. The ones I’ve been to were shallow and most attendees I suspect had only a minimal understanding of what Passover is. If I was an invited to a Jewish person’s house for Seder, I would consider it an utmost honor and do my best to participate quietly and respectfully but understand fully it is not about me.

Thank you! This is a perfect response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

Nice to see you being so respectful of other people.

How is it respectful for YOU to try to tell others what to call gatherings held at THEIR church? Tell me how that is respectful.

The whole "as long as" or "well then do this" attitude of some on this thread is extremely disrespectful. It's basically mansplaining, if you will. I am part of a faith community that traditionally hosts a Passover Supper. You don't have to approve of that. You don't have to like that. It doesn't have to please you.

Just like the Jewish practice of circumcision (which yes, I know is practiced by many religions, including Christianity) doesn't have to please me. It's not a choice I made for my family, but I'm not out here criticizing or telling you not to or giving you conditions. You do you. I do me. That's respect.

I posted several articles explaining why it’s disrespectful.

Maybe read them and learn.

Would you like it if someone burned a Cross under the guise of their religion?

Are you a KKK member?

If it’s the expression of my religion, then I should be able to do it, right? Under your logic.

Are you a using the cross to burn on a Black person's yard? If so, than you will be arrested for a hate crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my church, we have a Passover gathering. It is not a Seder.

There is a reading from the book of Exodus, followed by a brief prayer, followed by a simple meal of soup and bread that is available to the entire community, including those in need of a meal.

That's it. It's not a Seder. It is a recognition of Passover and of God's mercy and protection.

That is part of my religious observance as a Christian. I will observe my religious traditions as I see fit.

ok, call it an Exodus meal.

I don't have to call it anything to please you. Neither does my pastor or my church community. We are having Passover Supper. Literally all are welcome. It's gonna be what it's gonna be, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attend.

Nice to see you being so respectful of other people.

How is it respectful for YOU to try to tell others what to call gatherings held at THEIR church? Tell me how that is respectful.

The whole "as long as" or "well then do this" attitude of some on this thread is extremely disrespectful. It's basically mansplaining, if you will. I am part of a faith community that traditionally hosts a Passover Supper. You don't have to approve of that. You don't have to like that. It doesn't have to please you.

Just like the Jewish practice of circumcision (which yes, I know is practiced by many religions, including Christianity) doesn't have to please me. It's not a choice I made for my family, but I'm not out here criticizing or telling you not to or giving you conditions. You do you. I do me. That's respect.

I posted several articles explaining why it’s disrespectful.

Maybe read them and learn.

Would you like it if someone burned a Cross under the guise of their religion?

Are you a KKK member?

If it’s the expression of my religion, then I should be able to do it, right? Under your logic.

Are you a using the cross to burn on a Black person's yard? If so, than you will be arrested for a hate crime.

1. Plenty of Jews had crosses burned by the KKK near them to intimidate them.

2. I posited it as part of a religious expression, not to intimidate anyone.