Christopher Columbus statues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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History isn't learned from statues. It is learned from books. Destroying statues doesn't change history. So what exactly is your complaint?

Statues do promote learning about history. But, in any case, for various reasons, mobs should not be removing them.

Do you approve of damaging the statue of the abolitionist? Did you hear about the guy in Portsmouth whose skull was cracked bringing down a statue?

And, the statues are also art.

But, this new think coming to the fore also seems to want to ban art and books. That is scary.

Yes, the abolitionist thing was dumb. But that is what mobs are: wild, dumb people with nothing left to lose.

No one is banning art and books. That would be terrifying. And it 100% is not happening. They aren't banning statues of racists either. They are just kicking them out of public spaces.

That's not true. Mark Twain's novel "Huck Finn" is either censored or banned.

Lol. No it isn't! I am currently reading this story to my daughter each night. We got our copy from the library. The government funded public library.

DP. I don't know about Huck Finn...... but, book banning is more a local issue.
And, yes, books have been banned around the country.......
http://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/classics

Did you click the link? The books aren't being banned. They just aren't being purchased by some local libraries. What is scary about that?

I guess you didn't see the places where specific books are banned.....such as....
Slaughterhouse Five - Banned in Levittown, NY (1975), North Jackson, OH (1979), and Lakeland, FL (1982) because of the "book's explicit sexual scenes, violence, and obscene language."

These books are banned from libraries and schools, which is perfectly legal and appropriate. It is not illegal to own these books.
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/986/book-banning

Although censorship violates the First Amendment right to freedom of speech, some limitations are constitutionally permissible. The courts have told public officials at all levels that they may take community standards into account when deciding whether materials are obscene or pornographic and thus subject to censor.

They cannot, however, censor publications by generally accepted authors — such as Mark Twain, for example, J. K. Rowling, R. L. Stine, Judy Blume, or Robert Cormier — in order to placate a small segment of the community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

History isn't learned from statues. It is learned from books. Destroying statues doesn't change history. So what exactly is your complaint?

Statues do promote learning about history. But, in any case, for various reasons, mobs should not be removing them.

Do you approve of damaging the statue of the abolitionist? Did you hear about the guy in Portsmouth whose skull was cracked bringing down a statue?

And, the statues are also art.

But, this new think coming to the fore also seems to want to ban art and books. That is scary.

Yes, the abolitionist thing was dumb. But that is what mobs are: wild, dumb people with nothing left to lose.

No one is banning art and books. That would be terrifying. And it 100% is not happening. They aren't banning statues of racists either. They are just kicking them out of public spaces.

That's not true. Mark Twain's novel "Huck Finn" is either censored or banned.

Lol. No it isn't! I am currently reading this story to my daughter each night. We got our copy from the library. The government funded public library.

DP. I don't know about Huck Finn...... but, book banning is more a local issue.
And, yes, books have been banned around the country.......
http://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/classics

Did you click the link? The books aren't being banned. They just aren't being purchased by some local libraries. What is scary about that?

I guess you didn't see the places where specific books are banned.....such as....
Slaughterhouse Five - Banned in Levittown, NY (1975), North Jackson, OH (1979), and Lakeland, FL (1982) because of the "book's explicit sexual scenes, violence, and obscene language."

These books are banned from libraries and schools, which is perfectly legal and appropriate. It is not illegal to own these books.
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/986/book-banning

Although censorship violates the First Amendment right to freedom of speech, some limitations are constitutionally permissible. The courts have told public officials at all levels that they may take community standards into account when deciding whether materials are obscene or pornographic and thus subject to censor.

They cannot, however, censor publications by generally accepted authors — such as Mark Twain, for example, J. K. Rowling, R. L. Stine, Judy Blume, or Robert Cormier — in order to placate a small segment of the community.

+1
https://news.miami.edu/stories/2018/09/do-we-ban-books-in-the-united-states.html#:~:text=Fortunately%2C%20the%20First%20Amendment%20protects,libraries%20from%20carrying%20the%20titles.

Fortunately, the First Amendment protects Americans from an outright banning of books by the U.S. government, but each year many books are “challenged” and taken to court to prevent schools or libraries from carrying the titles. Most books are challenged because of sexual content, offensive language or because the content is deemed unsuitable for the age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:THIS is the best thing I've read all day - https://www.latimes.com/nation/bs-md-ci-monuments-removed-20170816-story.html

The Lee-Jackson statue was erected in 1948 after a $100,000 donation from Baltimorean J. Henry Ferguson. Ferguson’s father was a friend of Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

“They were great generals and great Christian soldiers,” Ferguson said at the time.

Three thousand people, including then-Gov. William Preston Lane Jr. and Baltimore Mayor Thomas D’Alesandro Jr., attended the dedication.

“Today, with our nation beset by subversive groups and propaganda which seeks to destroy our national unity, we can look for inspiration to the lives of Lee and Jackson to remind us to be resolute and determined in preserving our sacred institutions,” D’Alesandro said at the time.

Um, this happened years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS is the best thing I've read all day - https://www.latimes.com/nation/bs-md-ci-monuments-removed-20170816-story.html

The Lee-Jackson statue was erected in 1948 after a $100,000 donation from Baltimorean J. Henry Ferguson. Ferguson’s father was a friend of Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

“They were great generals and great Christian soldiers,” Ferguson said at the time.

Three thousand people, including then-Gov. William Preston Lane Jr. and Baltimore Mayor Thomas D’Alesandro Jr., attended the dedication.

“Today, with our nation beset by subversive groups and propaganda which seeks to destroy our national unity, we can look for inspiration to the lives of Lee and Jackson to remind us to be resolute and determined in preserving our sacred institutions,” D’Alesandro said at the time.

Um, this happened years ago.

So did a lot of things that are widely being protested today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Couldn’t the left wait until AFTER November before going off the deep end with this stuff?

It really makes you wonder if there isn’t someone behind it trying to scare people into voting for Trump.

Are Native American rights news to you? They’ve been asking for these statues to come down for as long as I can remember and probably a while before that. This isn’t the “deep end.” This is a pretty measured, reasonable request. Like Jewish people asking for statues of Adolf Eichmann to come down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
In Japan, they have swastikas EVERYWHERE, and still use big symbols for park maps to point out temples. No one gets offended. They still have WWII criminals enshrined in temples in Japan.

There is a massive 100+ foot statue of Ghengis Khan in Mongolia. They aren't tearing down Khan because he was a serial rapist and enslaved millions of people.

The pyramids still exist in Egypt and will never be torn down even though it was built with slave labor from Africa.

Tourists spend millions of dollars per year traveling all throughout South and Central America to visit ancient indigenous ruins that were built with slave labor and were used for human sacrifices of enslaved tribes that bigger civilizations like the Mayans ruled over.

The Great Wall of China was built with slave labor, you gonna tear down that World Heritage Site too?

Huge portions of the Roman Empire were built with slave labor or were entertained by slaves killing each other. Should we tear down the Colosseum because people got enjoyment of watching enslaved people kill each other in the ring?

Even Native American tribes would enslave conquered tribal people and mutilate/kill them during rituals. Let's rename all of the cities, towns, states, and even commercial products because the Native Americans owned slaves, enslaved people, and benefited economically from slaves.

Go back to your safety zones if you are going to be offended by history. History won't change for your fragile little minds, because it literally can't.

You are completely missing the issue. No one is "offended by history." And changing who is honored in public spaces isn't changing history. It is decided what we value as a society today.

Where are the statues of Judas Iscariot? Is he not a part of history? Are we changing history by not having a giant statue of Judas in common areas? No, of course not. You are being deliberately obtuse to try to hide the fact that you are a reactionary.

NP. What is wrong with being a reactionary? Conservatives can't conserve anything, so at least reactionaries are willing to fight for change.

The problem with being a reactionary is that they have no core beliefs other than "Change is bad."

Conservatives don't want change. Reactionaries want to return to the politics and values of an earlier time period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I mean, once the monuments are gone, then what? Or are we not thinking beyond that. Just take them down and then reassess how we feel.

Replace them with statues of actual important people.

Name some important people.

How about we let the populations affected by Columbus select the important people.

You are afraid to name someone because you know you can't find a 100% pure historical character. Stop being a wimp. Name some important people.

The populations affected by Columbus did select the important people. The winners chose, the losers didn’t. That is life. A good winner will be empathetic to the losers but they still get to choose. This is how history has worked and will always work. It is thru struggle and conflict that progress is achieved. We will see how much blacks win over the next few months and years. I hope enough so that we can stop labeling and discriminating one way or the other and just be humans with equal rights. I hope citizens win over police brutality and that the purpose and culture and leadership of law enforcement is fundamentally altered to focus on protecting and serving all citizens not just those in power or with more money and influence. But, we shall see. The only chance you have is to fight smartly and with a purpose to win (not just random, senseless theft and destruction), hopefully peacefully and legally. Else you will lose again and again. Fight politically. Fight thru written words that make sense and aren’t exclusionary. Fight against all injustice not just injustice against “your” clan or race or religion. Fight for the human race, not just yourself.

Good soapbox speech to avoid answering the questions and to beat around the bush while you pretend you're saying anything of substance. It's a simple request - give a list of people who deserve a statue. NAME SPECIFIC NAMES. No more soapbox speeches and trying to avoid answering the question. Give names.

You didn’t really read what I wrote did you? The only “important people” the get statues are those that won. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Columbus, etc. that’s why they have statues. Paterno got a statue cuz he won a lot of games, despite turning the other way in regards to Sandusky. Do you understand? MLK has a statue because he was effective by peacefully protesting. He won. In fact he won so much he was shot for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, once the monuments are gone, then what? Or are we not thinking beyond that. Just take them down and then reassess how we feel.

Replace them with statues of actual important people.

Name some important people.

How about we let the populations affected by Columbus select the important people.

You are afraid to name someone because you know you can't find a 100% pure historical character. Stop being a wimp. Name some important people.

The populations affected by Columbus did select the important people. The winners chose, the losers didn’t. That is life. A good winner will be empathetic to the losers but they still get to choose. This is how history has worked and will always work. It is thru struggle and conflict that progress is achieved. We will see how much blacks win over the next few months and years. I hope enough so that we can stop labeling and discriminating one way or the other and just be humans with equal rights. I hope citizens win over police brutality and that the purpose and culture and leadership of law enforcement is fundamentally altered to focus on protecting and serving all citizens not just those in power or with more money and influence. But, we shall see. The only chance you have is to fight smartly and with a purpose to win (not just random, senseless theft and destruction), hopefully peacefully and legally. Else you will lose again and again. Fight politically. Fight thru written words that make sense and aren’t exclusionary. Fight against all injustice not just injustice against “your” clan or race or religion. Fight for the human race, not just yourself.

Good soapbox speech to avoid answering the questions and to beat around the bush while you pretend you're saying anything of substance. It's a simple request - give a list of people who deserve a statue. NAME SPECIFIC NAMES. No more soapbox speeches and trying to avoid answering the question. Give names.

You didn’t really read what I wrote did you? The only “important people” the get statues are those that won. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Columbus, etc. that’s why they have statues. Paterno got a statue cuz he won a lot of games, despite turning the other way in regards to Sandusky. Do you understand? MLK has a statue because he was effective by peacefully protesting. He won. In fact he won so much he was shot for it.

This isn't true and you know it. Think about the *actual* reasons that people erect statues and come back here and have a real dialogue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, once the monuments are gone, then what? Or are we not thinking beyond that. Just take them down and then reassess how we feel.

Replace them with statues of actual important people.

Name some important people.

How about we let the populations affected by Columbus select the important people.

You are afraid to name someone because you know you can't find a 100% pure historical character. Stop being a wimp. Name some important people.

The populations affected by Columbus did select the important people. The winners chose, the losers didn’t. That is life. A good winner will be empathetic to the losers but they still get to choose. This is how history has worked and will always work. It is thru struggle and conflict that progress is achieved. We will see how much blacks win over the next few months and years. I hope enough so that we can stop labeling and discriminating one way or the other and just be humans with equal rights. I hope citizens win over police brutality and that the purpose and culture and leadership of law enforcement is fundamentally altered to focus on protecting and serving all citizens not just those in power or with more money and influence. But, we shall see. The only chance you have is to fight smartly and with a purpose to win (not just random, senseless theft and destruction), hopefully peacefully and legally. Else you will lose again and again. Fight politically. Fight thru written words that make sense and aren’t exclusionary. Fight against all injustice not just injustice against “your” clan or race or religion. Fight for the human race, not just yourself.

Good soapbox speech to avoid answering the questions and to beat around the bush while you pretend you're saying anything of substance. It's a simple request - give a list of people who deserve a statue. NAME SPECIFIC NAMES. No more soapbox speeches and trying to avoid answering the question. Give names.

You didn’t really read what I wrote did you? The only “important people” the get statues are those that won. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Columbus, etc. that’s why they have statues. Paterno got a statue cuz he won a lot of games, despite turning the other way in regards to Sandusky. Do you understand? MLK has a statue because he was effective by peacefully protesting. He won. In fact he won so much he was shot for it.

Why do all those Confederate generals have soldiers? Were they winners too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, once the monuments are gone, then what? Or are we not thinking beyond that. Just take them down and then reassess how we feel.

Replace them with statues of actual important people.

Name some important people.

How about we let the populations affected by Columbus select the important people.

You are afraid to name someone because you know you can't find a 100% pure historical character. Stop being a wimp. Name some important people.

The populations affected by Columbus did select the important people. The winners chose, the losers didn’t. That is life. A good winner will be empathetic to the losers but they still get to choose. This is how history has worked and will always work. It is thru struggle and conflict that progress is achieved. We will see how much blacks win over the next few months and years. I hope enough so that we can stop labeling and discriminating one way or the other and just be humans with equal rights. I hope citizens win over police brutality and that the purpose and culture and leadership of law enforcement is fundamentally altered to focus on protecting and serving all citizens not just those in power or with more money and influence. But, we shall see. The only chance you have is to fight smartly and with a purpose to win (not just random, senseless theft and destruction), hopefully peacefully and legally. Else you will lose again and again. Fight politically. Fight thru written words that make sense and aren’t exclusionary. Fight against all injustice not just injustice against “your” clan or race or religion. Fight for the human race, not just yourself.

Good soapbox speech to avoid answering the questions and to beat around the bush while you pretend you're saying anything of substance. It's a simple request - give a list of people who deserve a statue. NAME SPECIFIC NAMES. No more soapbox speeches and trying to avoid answering the question. Give names.

You didn’t really read what I wrote did you? The only “important people” the get statues are those that won. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Columbus, etc. that’s why they have statues. Paterno got a statue cuz he won a lot of games, despite turning the other way in regards to Sandusky. Do you understand? MLK has a statue because he was effective by peacefully protesting. He won. In fact he won so much he was shot for it.

Why do all those Confederate generals have soldiers? Were they winners too?

Ugh. Pre-coffee. Should have read:

Why do all those Confederate generals have statues? Were they winners too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Italian wack job Governor Cuomo wants the statues to remain because of "heritage" reasons. Meanwhile the southern heritage can be ignored.

As a person of Italian-American descent, Columbus has never represented Italian-American culture. That would probably be a statue of pizza.

Columbus is now an integral name in North and South America. It's difficult to wipe it away.

I am wondering why Southerners can't honor other heroes in their regional culture? Why not honor with statues your great authors of American literature, like Tennessee Williams, Harpee Lee, and Alice Walker? Why not honor your Native American tribes like the Choctaw and the Seminoles with statues? Of course you could honor with statues your great leaders of the Civil Rights movement. Why not honor with statues of coal miners from Appalachia? Or honor your war dead from World War I to today with statues?

“A statue of pizza?” After all Italian immigrants and Italian-Americans have done to build this country, you think a statue representing that should be of pizza? You are either not really Italian-American or you are a self-hating clueless one who knows nothing about our proud history, culture, and influence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Italian wack job Governor Cuomo wants the statues to remain because of "heritage" reasons. Meanwhile the southern heritage can be ignored.

As a person of Italian-American descent, Columbus has never represented Italian-American culture. That would probably be a statue of pizza.

Columbus is now an integral name in North and South America. It's difficult to wipe it away.

I am wondering why Southerners can't honor other heroes in their regional culture? Why not honor with statues your great authors of American literature, like Tennessee Williams, Harpee Lee, and Alice Walker? Why not honor your Native American tribes like the Choctaw and the Seminoles with statues? Of course you could honor with statues your great leaders of the Civil Rights movement. Why not honor with statues of coal miners from Appalachia? Or honor your war dead from World War I to today with statues?

A “statue of pizza?” You are a stunad.

[Anonymous]

Any chance KKK member’s names comes off building’s etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Italian wack job Governor Cuomo wants the statues to remain because of "heritage" reasons. Meanwhile the southern heritage can be ignored.

As a person of Italian-American descent, Columbus has never represented Italian-American culture. That would probably be a statue of pizza.

Columbus is now an integral name in North and South America. It's difficult to wipe it away.

I am wondering why Southerners can't honor other heroes in their regional culture? Why not honor with statues your great authors of American literature, like Tennessee Williams, Harpee Lee, and Alice Walker? Why not honor your Native American tribes like the Choctaw and the Seminoles with statues? Of course you could honor with statues your great leaders of the Civil Rights movement. Why not honor with statues of coal miners from Appalachia? Or honor your war dead from World War I to today with statues?

+1
Or, considering that enslaved people are the ones who literally built the South, perhaps they should have more statues honoring them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Italian wack job Governor Cuomo wants the statues to remain because of "heritage" reasons. Meanwhile the southern heritage can be ignored.

As a person of Italian-American descent, Columbus has never represented Italian-American culture. That would probably be a statue of pizza.

Columbus is now an integral name in North and South America. It's difficult to wipe it away.

I am wondering why Southerners can't honor other heroes in their regional culture? Why not honor with statues your great authors of American literature, like Tennessee Williams, Harpee Lee, and Alice Walker? Why not honor your Native American tribes like the Choctaw and the Seminoles with statues? Of course you could honor with statues your great leaders of the Civil Rights movement. Why not honor with statues of coal miners from Appalachia? Or honor your war dead from World War I to today with statues?

+1
Or, considering that enslaved people are the ones who literally built the South, perhaps they should have more statues honoring them.

Don’t worry. There will be statues erected all over of every black person who ever accomplished anything. Look at the renaming of some Arlington County Schools as a example. A Founding Father of our country replaced with an oscure black teacher.