Stopping caring saved my marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^formatting got screwed up

He's not a nonfunctional bump on a log. But what I really want is for him to notice that things need doing and to do them himself without me having to ask him or nag him into doing it. When I notice that chores need doing (such as emptying the dishwasher or taking the trash out to the garbage can, or rinsing out the sink after the kids have brushed their teeth), I usually do it immediately. Why is this too much to ask of men?

The other thing is, we both have demanding careers. When he comes home, he wants to lay around. I want to too but I don't because we have children who need to be fed, bathed, read to, and tucked into bed. We have chores that need doing: clean up after dinner, empty and repack backpacks and lunch boxes, sign son's homework planner, check homework, lay out clothes for tomorrow. He never takes the initiative on any of that stuff. It's like he thinks "I worked a full day, now I can rest." Well I did TOO but SOMEONE needs to do this stuff!

Well what does he say when you point this out?

It gets better for a little while then goes downhill again. But if I were to take the advice in here, I'd resign myself to being a single mother within a marriage and take on all this myself all the time. What's the point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?

I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.

He SHOULD care about that stuff. He would if you were truly 50/50 partners. You are lowering your standards and settling for something second rate. I don't know why you would do that let alone advise someone else to. Bad idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?

I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.

He SHOULD care about that stuff. He would if you were truly 50/50 partners. You are lowering your standards and settling for something second rate. I don't know why you would do that let alone advise someone else to. Bad idea.

+ 1

New Poster here. I agree. If it matters to you, it should matter to him. It's really that simple. The fact that it doesn't shows disrespect to you. If he truly cared about you, he wouldn't want you to run yourself ragged doing all this work for the family and house, he would *want* to help you in order to ease your burden. I really do not understand this thread. I'm getting the sense that there are a lot more "bad" marriages out there than I thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^formatting got screwed up

He's not a nonfunctional bump on a log. But what I really want is for him to notice that things need doing and to do them himself without me having to ask him or nag him into doing it. When I notice that chores need doing (such as emptying the dishwasher or taking the trash out to the garbage can, or rinsing out the sink after the kids have brushed their teeth), I usually do it immediately. Why is this too much to ask of men?

The other thing is, we both have demanding careers. When he comes home, he wants to lay around. I want to too but I don't because we have children who need to be fed, bathed, read to, and tucked into bed. We have chores that need doing: clean up after dinner, empty and repack backpacks and lunch boxes, sign son's homework planner, check homework, lay out clothes for tomorrow. He never takes the initiative on any of that stuff. It's like he thinks "I worked a full day, now I can rest." Well I did TOO but SOMEONE needs to do this stuff!

Well what does he say when you point this out?

It gets better for a little while then goes downhill again. But if I were to take the advice in here, I'd resign myself to being a single mother within a marriage and take on all this myself all the time. What's the point?

But if he's as oblivious as you describe, he's sort of a lump on a log. Does he actually see what happens when things aren't done?

Also, is there a way to take a beat and both get a break you guys walk in the door? I actually made the excuse that I'm getting changed out of work clothes for 20 minutes. DH deals with the kids and they are old enough to talk to him and not bother me. In reality, I sit in silence and meditate and then throw own some sweats and dive in. He actually does a lot of stuff during this time like going through backpacks or starting dinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Let me see if this is sinking in. So..I get off work, I exercise, I clean the house, I bathe the kids and do dinner, homework, etc. DH is a lazy POS and hasn't done much of anything but come home from work and veg on the tv or phone. I don't get mad or feel resentful about this because hey, if I want to clean or feed the kids that's my side of the road to worry about, not his? Is the idea that he'll see me happy and not complaining and will eventually join in and help?

1+. No joke. This is like: "How to be a doormat: 101." Success is... When after you do 95% of all the work you don't get so mad when your dear POS ("DPOS"?) criticizes all you've done??? Is this what you want for your daughters?? How can you possible be offering this as good advice?

x 1000

[Anonymous]

I love the disengage idea but I just can't see how you don't boil over with resentment.

The other day my husband cleaned up a spill on the floor and showed me the paper towel and said, we really need to mop this floor.

Well, I had mopped the kitchen floor earlier that week. Of course he did not notice./know that.

I said so and told him he was welcome to go ahead and do it. He got all huffy telling me it wasn't a criticism, just a comment. But it felt like a criticism. I never tell him "We need to empty the dishwasher, do laundry etc." That's passive aggressive in my book. I just DO it. Or if I want him to do it, I ask him.

Once he offered to mop and nothign happened. I asked why. he said he didn't know where the mop and bucket were. So I took out the mop and bucket and put it in the bathroom sink and it sat there TWO weeks, until I finally got tired of it and mopped myself.

I just don't see how to let go. I want to, but like a PP it makes me crazy to see him plop in front of the TV every night while i am cleaning the dishes/getting the kids ready for bed. I would LOVE to plop too, but stuff needs to get done. And then the temerity to point out the floor isn't spotless. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^formatting got screwed up

He's not a nonfunctional bump on a log. But what I really want is for him to notice that things need doing and to do them himself without me having to ask him or nag him into doing it. When I notice that chores need doing (such as emptying the dishwasher or taking the trash out to the garbage can, or rinsing out the sink after the kids have brushed their teeth), I usually do it immediately. Why is this too much to ask of men?

The other thing is, we both have demanding careers. When he comes home, he wants to lay around. I want to too but I don't because we have children who need to be fed, bathed, read to, and tucked into bed. We have chores that need doing: clean up after dinner, empty and repack backpacks and lunch boxes, sign son's homework planner, check homework, lay out clothes for tomorrow. He never takes the initiative on any of that stuff. It's like he thinks "I worked a full day, now I can rest." Well I did TOO but SOMEONE needs to do this stuff!

Well what does he say when you point this out?

It gets better for a little while then goes downhill again. But if I were to take the advice in here, I'd resign myself to being a single mother within a marriage and take on all this myself all the time. What's the point?

But if he's as oblivious as you describe, he's sort of a lump on a log. Does he actually see what happens when things aren't done?

Also, is there a way to take a beat and both get a break you guys walk in the door? I actually made the excuse that I'm getting changed out of work clothes for 20 minutes. DH deals with the kids and they are old enough to talk to him and not bother me. In reality, I sit in silence and meditate and then throw own some sweats and dive in. He actually does a lot of stuff during this time like going through backpacks or starting dinner.

I think so but he's lazy, especially at night after work. Like if he comes home to a full, clean dishwasher that needs to be unloaded, instead of emptying it right away as he should, as I want him to, he'll take a few clean dishes out to eat (and sometimes leave the dirty dishes for me in the sink!) because he knows that I will come around huffing and puffing and empty the damn dishwasher because I can't stand for things to be unorganized like that. If he knows that it bothers me, why doesn't he just do it the way I want him to do it? If asked, he will say he was planning to get to it later after he ate (which I doubt, I think that is just a convenient excuse). I do think it is a sign of disrespect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^formatting got screwed up

He's not a nonfunctional bump on a log. But what I really want is for him to notice that things need doing and to do them himself without me having to ask him or nag him into doing it. When I notice that chores need doing (such as emptying the dishwasher or taking the trash out to the garbage can, or rinsing out the sink after the kids have brushed their teeth), I usually do it immediately. Why is this too much to ask of men?

The other thing is, we both have demanding careers. When he comes home, he wants to lay around. I want to too but I don't because we have children who need to be fed, bathed, read to, and tucked into bed. We have chores that need doing: clean up after dinner, empty and repack backpacks and lunch boxes, sign son's homework planner, check homework, lay out clothes for tomorrow. He never takes the initiative on any of that stuff. It's like he thinks "I worked a full day, now I can rest." Well I did TOO but SOMEONE needs to do this stuff!

Well what does he say when you point this out?

It gets better for a little while then goes downhill again. But if I were to take the advice in here, I'd resign myself to being a single mother within a marriage and take on all this myself all the time. What's the point?

But if he's as oblivious as you describe, he's sort of a lump on a log. Does he actually see what happens when things aren't done?

Also, is there a way to take a beat and both get a break you guys walk in the door? I actually made the excuse that I'm getting changed out of work clothes for 20 minutes. DH deals with the kids and they are old enough to talk to him and not bother me. In reality, I sit in silence and meditate and then throw own some sweats and dive in. He actually does a lot of stuff during this time like going through backpacks or starting dinner.

yes but again I will take 20 minutes and he will take an hour. Just like he'll hide away in the bathroom with his phone for 30 minutes when he is supposedly using the toilet. Talking to friends, I hear this is quite common among men. We are on to you, men! We know you are not pooping in there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?

I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.

He SHOULD care about that stuff. He would if you were truly 50/50 partners. You are lowering your standards and settling for something second rate. I don't know why you would do that let alone advise someone else to. Bad idea.

+ 1

New Poster here. I agree. If it matters to you, it should matter to him. It's really that simple. The fact that it doesn't shows disrespect to you. If he truly cared about you, he wouldn't want you to run yourself ragged doing all this work for the family and house, he would *want* to help you in order to ease your burden. I really do not understand this thread. I'm getting the sense that there are a lot more "bad" marriages out there than I thought.

That's a fundamentally losing game for a lot of people. Because you are inevitably going to run into things that your spouse doesn't give a crap about. It just sets the stage for disappointment for a lot of people and builds resentment, entrenchment (my way or the highway) and a lack of perspective. Some people live absolutes. For the rest of us in the grey, we are trying to find a sense of peace while enjoying (yes enjoying) our marriage and families. There's no one right way to do this, but this thread raises a big point -- what's important to you should matter and you shouldn't spend your energy trying to make your spouse see your view or feel a certain way because they are their own person and are in charge of their own happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?

I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.

He SHOULD care about that stuff. He would if you were truly 50/50 partners. You are lowering your standards and settling for something second rate. I don't know why you would do that let alone advise someone else to. Bad idea.

+ 1

New Poster here. I agree. If it matters to you, it should matter to him. It's really that simple. The fact that it doesn't shows disrespect to you. If he truly cared about you, he wouldn't want you to run yourself ragged doing all this work for the family and house, he would *want* to help you in order to ease your burden. I really do not understand this thread. I'm getting the sense that there are a lot more "bad" marriages out there than I thought.

This is what I always thought, but this approach is making me truly miserable in my marriage. I can't divorce while the kids are young so I'm desperate to try anything. I'm going to give OP's suggestion a shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^formatting got screwed up

He's not a nonfunctional bump on a log. But what I really want is for him to notice that things need doing and to do them himself without me having to ask him or nag him into doing it. When I notice that chores need doing (such as emptying the dishwasher or taking the trash out to the garbage can, or rinsing out the sink after the kids have brushed their teeth), I usually do it immediately. Why is this too much to ask of men?

The other thing is, we both have demanding careers. When he comes home, he wants to lay around. I want to too but I don't because we have children who need to be fed, bathed, read to, and tucked into bed. We have chores that need doing: clean up after dinner, empty and repack backpacks and lunch boxes, sign son's homework planner, check homework, lay out clothes for tomorrow. He never takes the initiative on any of that stuff. It's like he thinks "I worked a full day, now I can rest." Well I did TOO but SOMEONE needs to do this stuff!

Well what does he say when you point this out?

It gets better for a little while then goes downhill again. But if I were to take the advice in here, I'd resign myself to being a single mother within a marriage and take on all this myself all the time. What's the point?

But if he's as oblivious as you describe, he's sort of a lump on a log. Does he actually see what happens when things aren't done?

Also, is there a way to take a beat and both get a break you guys walk in the door? I actually made the excuse that I'm getting changed out of work clothes for 20 minutes. DH deals with the kids and they are old enough to talk to him and not bother me. In reality, I sit in silence and meditate and then throw own some sweats and dive in. He actually does a lot of stuff during this time like going through backpacks or starting dinner.

I think so but he's lazy, especially at night after work. Like if he comes home to a full, clean dishwasher that needs to be unloaded, instead of emptying it right away as he should, as I want him to, he'll take a few clean dishes out to eat (and sometimes leave the dirty dishes for me in the sink!) because he knows that I will come around huffing and puffing and empty the damn dishwasher because I can't stand for things to be unorganized like that. If he knows that it bothers me, why doesn't he just do it the way I want him to do it? If asked, he will say he was planning to get to it later after he ate (which I doubt, I think that is just a convenient excuse). I do think it is a sign of disrespect.

Yeah, not a big to me. Dishes will get emptied and used eventually. This isn't the hill I'd die on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^formatting got screwed up

He's not a nonfunctional bump on a log. But what I really want is for him to notice that things need doing and to do them himself without me having to ask him or nag him into doing it. When I notice that chores need doing (such as emptying the dishwasher or taking the trash out to the garbage can, or rinsing out the sink after the kids have brushed their teeth), I usually do it immediately. Why is this too much to ask of men?

The other thing is, we both have demanding careers. When he comes home, he wants to lay around. I want to too but I don't because we have children who need to be fed, bathed, read to, and tucked into bed. We have chores that need doing: clean up after dinner, empty and repack backpacks and lunch boxes, sign son's homework planner, check homework, lay out clothes for tomorrow. He never takes the initiative on any of that stuff. It's like he thinks "I worked a full day, now I can rest." Well I did TOO but SOMEONE needs to do this stuff!

Well what does he say when you point this out?

It gets better for a little while then goes downhill again. But if I were to take the advice in here, I'd resign myself to being a single mother within a marriage and take on all this myself all the time. What's the point?

The ONLY way this has worked out for my friends and me with a similar situation is to have a schedule set in stone - so he cooks dinner on Mondays an Thursdays and does bedtime on Tuesdays and Fridays. You do the opposite days - no trying to "share" duties and hope he helps - he's either on or he's off - and I am either on or off. Eventually, you can soften a bit, but for now - he needs to be 100% responsible so it happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love the disengage idea but I just can't see how you don't boil over with resentment.

The other day my husband cleaned up a spill on the floor and showed me the paper towel and said, we really need to mop this floor.

Well, I had mopped the kitchen floor earlier that week. Of course he did not notice./know that.

I said so and told him he was welcome to go ahead and do it. He got all huffy telling me it wasn't a criticism, just a comment. But it felt like a criticism. I never tell him "We need to empty the dishwasher, do laundry etc." That's passive aggressive in my book. I just DO it. Or if I want him to do it, I ask him.

Once he offered to mop and nothign happened. I asked why. he said he didn't know where the mop and bucket were. So I took out the mop and bucket and put it in the bathroom sink and it sat there TWO weeks, until I finally got tired of it and mopped myself.

I just don't see how to let go. I want to, but like a PP it makes me crazy to see him plop in front of the TV every night while i am cleaning the dishes/getting the kids ready for bed. I would LOVE to plop too, but stuff needs to get done. And then the temerity to point out the floor isn't spotless. Please.

This is me too. It all makes me so mad and resentful. I don't know how to let go of that.

[Anonymous]

I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

And what about how your husband would like to be treated? Is it okay for him to ridicule you when you deserve it?

Great work finding a man with no backbone who allows himself to be turned into what you want. It's clearly what you need. I would have divorced your ass a long time ago with the treatment you've outlined above. Very VERY few men want a wife like you, so stick with your doormat, PP.

New Poster here. Perhaps they have a relationship where they tease each other and banter? It's interesting to me how some people are reacting to this post. While I wouldn't put it in quite the same language, I generally agree with what she is saying. It's true that societal expectations differ greatly for men and women so women have to really hold their husbands to their early promises to be an equal partner. Expect your husband to be a 50/50 partner in your household and family and he will rise to the occasion if he wants to be with you. Lower your standards and, unfortunately, many men will subsequently lower theirs. I do agree with the above PPs that some of this advice tacitly condones men's bad behavior and sets women back generally. I would not put up with a lot of the behavior mentioned throughout this thread and I would not advise anyone else to either.

+1000. Another NP. Why is remotely problematic to expect one's spouse to be considerate and competent? PP considers a man to be "without backbone" because he is willing to, gasp, actually take care of his shit and perhaps even learn how to contribute to his family's life? A man who does groceries is a "doormat"?

So many PPs are tying themselves into knots trying to rationalize why *they* haven't had the backbone to create a fair, functional, harmonious partnership. Hint: It not by turning into an apathetic Stepford wife with (apparently) a filthy house to boot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?

I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.

He SHOULD care about that stuff. He would if you were truly 50/50 partners. You are lowering your standards and settling for something second rate. I don't know why you would do that let alone advise someone else to. Bad idea.

+ 1

New Poster here. I agree. If it matters to you, it should matter to him. It's really that simple. The fact that it doesn't shows disrespect to you. If he truly cared about you, he wouldn't want you to run yourself ragged doing all this work for the family and house, he would *want* to help you in order to ease your burden. I really do not understand this thread. I'm getting the sense that there are a lot more "bad" marriages out there than I thought.

That's a fundamentally losing game for a lot of people. Because you are inevitably going to run into things that your spouse doesn't give a crap about. It just sets the stage for disappointment for a lot of people and builds resentment, entrenchment (my way or the highway) and a lack of perspective. Some people live absolutes. For the rest of us in the grey, we are trying to find a sense of peace while enjoying (yes enjoying) our marriage and families. There's no one right way to do this, but this thread raises a big point -- what's important to you should matter and you shouldn't spend your energy trying to make your spouse see your view or feel a certain way because they are their own person and are in charge of their own happiness.

Good point. Fair enough. For me, it is really important that my husband shows he cares about me by demonstrating an understanding of, and involvement in, what I care about (and yes, a clean, organized house is at the top of the list - I have anxiety that manifests around that issue). Acts of service is "love language" if you are familiar with that concept, so I guess it makes sense. The other day I came home to an organized junk drawer, totally unsolicited by me, and wanted to jump him out of gratitude. YMMV but I couldn't live in any of the "detached" marriages being described here. I would go crazy.