New Year Eve's Coordinated Sexual Assault Attacks in Cologne

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

I am sure that the vast majority of German women have been in large crushes and not suffered the sort of treatment that occurred in Cologne. That is far from a routine occurrence. It is a simple fact that large numbers of women being groped by large numbers of men has happened in America. To suggest otherwise is to engage in either willful ignorance or nearly-complete denial.

And the one example you found was from 25 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Most women in the US feel safe to go to public areas in crowds in general, especially with their families. Please show us an example otherwise.

[Anonymous]

here is the interview of one of the victims

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/631531/Police-Germany-Hunt-1000-Arab-North-African-Gang-Cologne-Sex-Attack-Assault

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

I am sure that the vast majority of German women have been in large crushes and not suffered the sort of treatment that occurred in Cologne. That is far from a routine occurrence. It is a simple fact that large numbers of women being groped by large numbers of men has happened in America. To suggest otherwise is to engage in either willful ignorance or nearly-complete denial.

I have been in many new year Eve's crowds as a woman and no one has been groped. If something like that happened it would make the news quite quickly. This is quite out of the ordinary, to suggest otherwise is to do injustice to the victims.

You are contradicting yourself. As you say, what happened in Cologne was quite out of the ordinary. Ordinarily, German women would not be groped when they are in a crowd. The fact that you ordinarily are not groped in no way disapproves that similar out of the ordinary events don't occur in the US.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Most women in the US feel safe to go to public areas in crowds in general, especially with their families. Please show us an example otherwise.

Most German women do as well. What is your point?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

But Jeff, even if that post was the first one you read, you knew what this thread was about. Anyone who reads a paper knows, and you are definitely astute with current events. You shut down another thread on this same topic, referring to it as propaganda, so it is not as if you were not aware this is a hot topic.

As a woman, the fact that Tailhook is what you chose to focus on in this thread really, really bothers and saddens me. Perhaps it is a side discussion, hut the very first and passionate post from you is on that?

I am not often on the politics threads, but a long while back there was a thread started pokin gleeful joy about some prolife VA politician's teen daughter who go pregnant out of wedlock. I reported that post to you and you removed it because the right and wrong of it was clear. You could have chimed in first about the hypocracy of that politician, or on some pro choice talking points, or on double standards. But you didn't. The right and wrong was clear and you did what was right, even though it wssn't towing the party line. Why do you seem to struggle with speaking up against horrible things like this perpetrated by a group of muslim men, when the wrong is crystal clear?

Like I said, I am disappointed and a bit saddened by how you responded and what you felt was most important in this thread to react to and express outrage about.

I can't help but wonder if something similar happened by a thousand coordinated white midwest frat boys on spring break, would your first response have been "well, this happened by a bunch of muslim men against women in Egypt too, so muslims do this too"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

No one said Tailhook was "right" or "okay".......But, this is far from the same thing at all.

+1 shame on the moderator and his obvious bias.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

This is a moronic thread with most of you inexplicably bogging down in who did it - FTR, I agree, probably recent-ish immigrants from the Middle East and North African countries. You're getting distracted, however at what matters in this: why now? European countries have for decades had huge influxes of immigrants who are culturally dissimilar to their new country. Why suddenly do they feel emboldened to assault women?

The main point of this isn't who did it, although I hope they catch and throw the book at them, it's the fact that the world has experienced creeping misogyny and the gradual stripping of women's rights. Which if you look at abortion rights as a bellwether most certainly is happening here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

+1 the apologists are grasping at straws. To defend this atrocity they are trampling all over women's rights

Nope. Some of us just see how this story is being used to further stir up emotions about the refugee crisis.

Where's the outrage over all the rapes happening at Oktoberfest and Karnival/ Fasching in Germany every single year? By our "good" German boys. If you've been at any of these events as a woman in Germany, you know what I'm taking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

+1 the apologists are grasping at straws. To defend this atrocity they are trampling all over women's rights

Nope. Some of us just see how this story is being used to further stir up emotions about the refugee crisis.

Where's the outrage over all the rapes happening at Oktoberfest and Karnival/ Fasching in Germany every single year? By our "good" German boys. If you've been at any of these events as a woman in Germany, you know what I'm taking about.

Please do tell. How many women reported being sexually attacked?

[Anonymous]

Where's the outrage over all the rapes happening at Oktoberfest and Karnival/ Fasching in Germany every single year? By our "good" German boys. If you've been at any of these events as a woman in Germany, you know what I'm taking about.

Sorry. Been there and don't know what you are talking about. Sure, it is wild and inappropriate--but strangers attacking you? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

+1 the apologists are grasping at straws. To defend this atrocity they are trampling all over women's rights

Nope. Some of us just see how this story is being used to further stir up emotions about the refugee crisis.

Where's the outrage over all the rapes happening at Oktoberfest and Karnival/ Fasching in Germany every single year? By our "good" German boys. If you've been at any of these events as a woman in Germany, you know what I'm taking about.

What about the "Roast Buster" scandal. No one seemed to care much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Where's the outrage over all the rapes happening at Oktoberfest and Karnival/ Fasching in Germany every single year? By our "good" German boys. If you've been at any of these events as a woman in Germany, you know what I'm taking about.

Sorry. Been there and don't know what you are talking about. Sure, it is wild and inappropriate--but strangers attacking you? No.

American tourist? You must not be reading German news, seeing the Oktoberfest rape statistics. It's an epidemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

+1 the apologists are grasping at straws. To defend this atrocity they are trampling all over women's rights

Nope. Some of us just see how this story is being used to further stir up emotions about the refugee crisis.

Where's the outrage over all the rapes happening at Oktoberfest and Karnival/ Fasching in Germany every single year? By our "good" German boys. If you've been at any of these events as a woman in Germany, you know what I'm taking about.

A rational person sees this as about the victims and does not focus on the agendas of the wing nuts here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

+1 the apologists are grasping at straws. To defend this atrocity they are trampling all over women's rights

Nope. Some of us just see how this story is being used to further stir up emotions about the refugee crisis.

Where's the outrage over all the rapes happening at Oktoberfest and Karnival/ Fasching in Germany every single year? By our "good" German boys. If you've been at any of these events as a woman in Germany, you know what I'm taking about.

Please do tell. How many women reported being sexually attacked?

I'm not doing the googleing for you.