New Year Eve's Coordinated Sexual Assault Attacks in Cologne

[Anonymous]

...Not to mention the fact that tailhook was 25 years ago.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

[Anonymous]

The thing is, is that it this behavior typically isn't punished in Muslim/Indian cultures. If anything the victim is sent to jail. The perpetrators are accustomed to their rights as men. This outrage has come to light in recent years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...Not to mention the fact that tailhook was 25 years ago.

+1 instead of expressing horror at what happened it's a look you Americans are not much better. Premeditated massive coordinated attacks on women is unheard of now adays in the US. It also used to be unheard of in Europe till this happened. I used to think it safe for girls to bagpack alone in Europe, not anymore. And if the one example you can find was from 25 years ago, good luck.

[Anonymous]

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

No one said Tailhook was "right" or "okay".......But, this is far from the same thing at all.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

It is alien to our culture, and most people in our society will act with horror if something like this happened in today's world. We treat drunken hookups as rape, let alone mass coordinated sexual assault attacks. Contrary to your protestations, our cultural norms and values dictate this to be a horrific act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

No one said Tailhook was "right" or "okay".......But, this is far from the same thing at all.

+1 shame on the moderator and his obvious bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This was difficult not to foresee. Especially for Germany with Berlin looking pretty much like Istanbul these days. Stop the pity party, they practically begged for it. I don't mean the victims, I mean the fucking politicians.[/quote
The politicians are getting something. Mark my words

[Anonymous]

How did this turn into "interns" and "Tailhook"?

How about we now start yammering about BENGHAAAZIIIII!

Could this thread even possibly get any more off track?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

[Anonymous]

This seems like a general cultural problem of some Middle Eastern men, not just Muslims. Look at this horrible case with a gang of Iraqi Christians in Detroit

http://www.law.ou.edu/sites/default/files/files/FACULTY/03%20Rose.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apparently this has vanished down the memory hole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

"The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in "improper and indecent" conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada"

Tailhook was inexcusable. This is not the same thing. First, this was in Vegas and occurred among people who knew each other and were partying and drinking together. There are conflicting stories, but, for sure, wrongdoing occurred. People were punished--because they knew who the people were. Some were "protected" and that was wrong and there were lots of reports about this and action was taken to stop it from occurring again. (There are some reports that it did not stop the activity.) This is just not the same thing.

The incidents being reported in Cologne and other German cities are quite different. It was totally unexpected and involved strangers. It also appears to be massive.

Exactly!

Jeff, why is your first post on this thread to chime in with "look at the Americans who did this too years ago?"

I agree Tailhook was agregious, but it is very different than what happened to those innocent people, women, daughters, mothers, wives, husbands, boyfriends and fathers.

What if this was your wife with your sons and you watching helpless to do anything?

I would have hoped your first post would have been to post support for the women and outrage for the deviants who think this is acceptable behavior.

Everything they did runs in complete opposition to what is supposed to be liberal, civilized values. Yet your first post is about Tailhook?

I am disappointed.

That was my first post because I hadn't read the thread and clicked on the last page. The first thing I saw was a post saying Americans wouldn't do this. Of course Americans not only would, they have. I'm disappointed at the hair-splitting that is all but excusing Tailhook. Some of the replies practically mimic those who defended it as simply what happens in "Vegas". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel better if my wife was a Tailhook victim rather than one of the victims in Cologne.

Of course the behavior in Cologne was reprehensible. I doubt that anyone has suggested otherwise. But, to act like such an occurrence is completely limited to one culture and completely alien to ours is factually inaccurate.

No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

+1 the apologists are grasping at straws. To defend this atrocity they are trampling all over women's rights

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

I am sure that the vast majority of German women have been in large crushes and not suffered the sort of treatment that occurred in Cologne. That is far from a routine occurrence. It is a simple fact that large numbers of women being groped by large numbers of men has happened in America. To suggest otherwise is to engage in either willful ignorance or nearly-complete denial.

[Anonymous]

The day that my government tells me to prevent against rape and sexual assault in public areas in crowds is to watch my behavior and my clothing is to roll back decades of progress in women's rights.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, they haven't. I have been in large crushes in DC, and having a phone snatched is a real danger. Getting roughly groped by hundreds of men is not a real danger, and has never happened here. Women were bruised black and blue, at least one was raped. This is not like Tailhook, or spring break/hookup culture, etc.

I am sure that the vast majority of German women have been in large crushes and not suffered the sort of treatment that occurred in Cologne. That is far from a routine occurrence. It is a simple fact that large numbers of women being groped by large numbers of men has happened in America. To suggest otherwise is to engage in either willful ignorance or nearly-complete denial.

I have been in many new year Eve's crowds as a woman and no one has been groped. If something like that happened it would make the news quite quickly. This is quite out of the ordinary, to suggest otherwise is to do injustice to the victims.