Seeking opinions on an incident involving another family member disciplining my child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't necessarily think that the apology means that BIL was so out of line. I have apologized to my SIL before when she has really not deserved it, and I was not really sorry and did nothing wrong in my view. However, she is nothing but drama and I did it so that my MIL would not be upset because the family is fighting. MIL knew I didn't do anything wrong either but was grateful I kept the peace.

It's possible BIL apologized because he didn't want his wife to come home to her family gone and God knows what kind of rift left behind.

it still points back to BIL's temper being a known quantity in the family. Even if you are right with this, it means he didn't want to have to answer the question "where did they go? what happened?" with "well, her kid was on the armrest and wouldn't come down, and I..." He had just raised his voice at two ADULTS about their child and his authority. Is that sort of behavior really normal for so many of you?

THANK YOU. Are people just forgetting that part?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

I would bet he apologized because they were packing up to leave. Drama all around.

If you read the OP it sounds like he didn't even know they were packing up. Just that they had retreated to the guest room because he had reduced two children to tears and screamed in his BIL's face.

OP here. That's right; he came right up to the room a few moments later and apologized. So it wasn't at my SIL's prompting (she wasn't home). And no, he didn't know we were packing; just that we had gone to the room. And we really weren't packing--I shouldn't have said that earlier. We were just discussing packing up and leaving. Although packing up would have meant just putting the bags in the car, because basically everything was still in the bags.

Anyway, I guess I did come here because I was hoping for support, for validation that what my BIL did was wrong. I get it that many of you don't seem to agree.

OP, I'm sorry. These people are nuts. I posted a minute ago about my father and I totally understand how this whole incident could have gone down. This post has zero to do with whether she was doing something she shouldn't because it really doesn't even have that much to do with the fact that he tried discipline your kid. Correcting someone else's child who is misbehaving in your home is fine. Your BIL just has a temper and he lashed out in a totally inappropriate way. But his apology indicates that he knows it.

This. For the most part, OP, I don't mind you seeking validation. Regardless of whether your BIL was right to react to the kid being on the arm of the couch, he was wrong to yell. I think the reason that some people are pointing to the problems in your own reaction is because this really-pretty-trivial situation could still needlessly escalate. Part of the reason the kids were so upset is that they saw your reaction. And he has already apologized. I'm all for validating you, I just think we should stop at the point where you are going to radically change your interactions with your BIL over something he has already apologized for. That would be unfortunate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you've got a sofa that you don't want kids feet on then don't have kids, invite people over with kids, or have a kid's birthday party.

Your fundamental premise is that kids are animals/brats who can do whatever the hell they want and are above being disciplined. I didn't grow up that way, and neither did my cousins. We were taught to respect people's houses and properties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a very relaxed parent. You have to be with a bunch of boys or you will be yelling all the time.

OP, you were way out of line. You over reacted. You escalated the situation. Your child's behavior was out of control. If that infraction resulted in BIL yelling then I am sure there was a lot of wildness by your kids prior to that point that really tried his patience.

I am guessing if he posted here his side would be very different than what you posted, particularly with regards to her getting off the couch arm. I am sure she did not compliantly step down when asked, and the grabbing for her legs leads me to believe there was likely some defiant response from her coupled with her launching herself or running across his couch on the way down.

My kids would have gotten scolded by me after that exchange and then made to help clean or something similar as an apology for being rude to someone else's house.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. To clarify about the leg-grabbing--I don't think that he removed her from the couch--I think she got herself down onto the seat part when she saw him moving toward her. She scrambled down, and he grabbed at her as she was scrambling down. By the time I turned around, she was on the seat part face-up with her legs facing him, and he was leaning over the arm rest trying to grab at her legs.

OP, how do you know how it all went down if you had your back to them? You are making assumptions based on your bias.

It sounds as if she was maybe trying to kick him or scramble back up to the arm rest and that is why he grabbed her legs.

Who cares, the right thing to do was for bIl to walk up to the mom and say quietly, "I know u r busy but larva is standing on the couch, can u ask her to get down"

She was not going to break anything is he 16 seconds it takes to bring this to Ops attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just sharing: I was beaten and screamed at as a child growing up and have deep emotional scars from it. I don't care if it's family - NOBODY touches my child in an aggressive manner. Use words.

Grabbing a child to remove them from a dangerous situation is so totally different than abuse. I'm sorry you were abused, but this is not the same situation at all. FWIW, I was abused and screamed at as a child, too (and well into my teens), but I can see the difference between abuse and this situation.

No I'm not saying that this was abuse at all, but if an adult is so angry that he's yelling at someone's face, then he needs to step away and calm down first to get a control over emotions - otherwise a light grabbing in anger can be very painful to a small child.

[Anonymous]

OP everything you've said in this thread speaks to your desire for validation and predilection for drama
- Your child doesn't cry when corrected she "sobs hysterically"
- You don't see what's going on but you're happy to fiction in the gaps
- You run from a room, so horrified at an explicable situation because that's what you want to teach your kids??
- You cast you BIL as some monster because he believes in boundaries and consequences and continue to try and cast his conduct as worst and worse as the thread continues and people are not all in your camp.
- Apparently it's okay for you to get overwrought and emotional but it's not okay for him to get cross
- You see a contrived apology to keep the peace as a justification for your perspectives

I'm sorry but there are so many things you could have done to handle this more appropriately and maturely. Asking "what exactly happened here?" Giving your child space and time to calm down. Talking to your sister about what is and is not allowed in her house. Instead your making an explicable situation into a daytime TV show (a really bad one).

I'm guessing that you BIL overreacted because he was sick of poorly managed, over-sensitive, damaging, dangerous brat kids, empowered by a SIL looking to be offended and poised for imminent drama in his house. I am Team BIL because you represent everything that screws up a family dynamic. And you cannot see it. You can't see why you should manage your kids in some else's house. You can't see why risky rambunctious behaviour should be curtailed. You can't see that often a reaction on the part of others is the straw that broke the camel's back. You can't see why chronic overreaction on your part is such a counter-productive thing to do. I really hope our paths never cross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. To clarify about the leg-grabbing--I don't think that he removed her from the couch--I think she got herself down onto the seat part when she saw him moving toward her. She scrambled down, and he grabbed at her as she was scrambling down. By the time I turned around, she was on the seat part face-up with her legs facing him, and he was leaning over the arm rest trying to grab at her legs.

OP, how do you know how it all went down if you had your back to them? You are making assumptions based on your bias.

It sounds as if she was maybe trying to kick him or scramble back up to the arm rest and that is why he grabbed her legs.

This is what I'm thinking, too. How does OP know exactly what happened when, by her own admission, her back was turned and all she saw when she turned around was her kid on her back and him trying to grab her foot? I think OP you did escalate things. And I think BIL apologized because he didn't realize how sensitive you all were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am seriously amazed by the holier than thou posters who claim a 0 tolerance policy for kids on couches. That is nuts. My kids are allowed on the furniture and I'm not stupid enough to think that makes them rude and undisciplined.

Your kids ARE rude and undisciplined, but OP's kid is worse - blatantly ignoring an instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just sharing: I was beaten and screamed at as a child growing up and have deep emotional scars from it. I don't care if it's family - NOBODY touches my child in an aggressive manner. Use words.

Grabbing a child to remove them from a dangerous situation is so totally different than abuse. I'm sorry you were abused, but this is not the same situation at all. FWIW, I was abused and screamed at as a child, too (and well into my teens), but I can see the difference between abuse and this situation.

No I'm not saying that this was abuse at all, but if an adult is so angry that he's yelling at someone's face, then he needs to step away and calm down first to get a control over emotions - otherwise a light grabbing in anger can be very painful to a small child.

Also, he should not be grabbing a child in this situation, she is not in danger, she is not running at a speeding car.

[Anonymous]

Okay recent PPs, despite the details (whether she was sticking legs out or not, whether op saw everything or not...) do you think bat the BIL acted appropriately? Screaming at the DH and everything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Same thing happened to me but I did not run out of the room or pack up.

My brother disciplined my child for standing on something he should not stand on but his way of handling it was heavy handed and my son screamed bloody murder. I didn't move and I let it go on for a little until he turned to me and said "r u going to do something" I asked " you want me to clean up your mess?"

In the meantime, I pulled up a picture of his younger child standing on the counter getting a snack, it was on FB and it said! little man helping himself... So cute.

It's cute when it is yours right, I said as I showed him the picture

My SIL who is awesome said, "got you on that one."

Whatever, kids are not perfect, they climb on shit.

My roommate from college was visiting and her son stood on my coffee table, I knew what he was doing it, like hey look we are in front of a stranger what ya going to do. So I quietly told her, I know you are sweating this one, I am going to pretend to get something from the kitchen, he will be less brave with me gone. that is how you handle it.

Never judge... Provide support.

I like you. will you be my friend?

Wait, with a level head like this you probably don't live in the DC area do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay recent PPs, despite the details (whether she was sticking legs out or not, whether op saw everything or not...) do you think bat the BIL acted appropriately? Screaming at the DH and everything?

Really on a scale of 1-10 the kids misbehavior was a 2 at worst and all he needed to do was ask her to get down, if she didn't comply. ask the parents for assistance.

His reactions was a 7 so an overreaction.

But OP's reaction should have been more like he dude lighten up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same thing happened to me but I did not run out of the room or pack up.

My brother disciplined my child for standing on something he should not stand on but his way of handling it was heavy handed and my son screamed bloody murder. I didn't move and I let it go on for a little until he turned to me and said "r u going to do something" I asked " you want me to clean up your mess?"

In the meantime, I pulled up a picture of his younger child standing on the counter getting a snack, it was on FB and it said! little man helping himself... So cute.

It's cute when it is yours right, I said as I showed him the picture

My SIL who is awesome said, "got you on that one."

Whatever, kids are not perfect, they climb on shit.

My roommate from college was visiting and her son stood on my coffee table, I knew what he was doing it, like hey look we are in front of a stranger what ya going to do. So I quietly told her, I know you are sweating this one, I am going to pretend to get something from the kitchen, he will be less brave with me gone. that is how you handle it.

Never judge... Provide support.

I like you. will you be my friend?

Wait, with a level head like this you probably don't live in the DC area do you?

Yes. I do, but let's just say I have been through a lot. The kind that makes anything not life threatening not a big deal.

I like to add friends, but I am a libra so I can't be friends with your friends and you can't meet my friends (apparently) ... See zodiac sign thread..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay recent PPs, despite the details (whether she was sticking legs out or not, whether op saw everything or not...) do you think bat the BIL acted appropriately? Screaming at the DH and everything?

Really on a scale of 1-10 the kids misbehavior was a 2 at worst and all he needed to do was ask her to get down, if she didn't comply. ask the parents for assistance.

His reactions was a 7 so an overreaction.

But OP's reaction should have been more like he dude lighten up.

Wasn't her kid already past the point of no return though? I thought OP said her kid was inconsolable by the time she got there (before BIL had yelled at any adults). seems like a lot of PPs are blaming OP for reacting to her kid. She didn't pick up her kid and remove her from the room bc of what BIL was doing, but because of how the kid was reacting. Was the kid overreacting? probably, because, you know, SHE'S FOUR.