Visiting family - Prayers before meals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do what you like, but nothing is going to delay me from eating my stuffing, mashed potatoes, and turkey.

Yeah make sure you reach over your family members and get your plate loaded and start eating greedily, as quickly as possible. Heck, why even eat at the table with them? Get a to go plate and leave. Make sure you take extra large portions of each dish so you get as much food as possible. Let them enjoy their precious family time together- you don’t need all that lovey dovey fake crap about being thankful for food and togetherness. How fortunate, advanced logic and intelligence has rendered you immune to superstition, as well as manners. But you still want their food, and even though they lovingly purchased food, prepared dishes, and showed up, you owe them nothing, not even a few moments to be thankful before eating.

What are you going on about? People are welcome to pray for as long as they wish, but I will be quietly eating my dinner. I do all the cooking, so I feel no compunction about eating when I wish. They can pray when they wish. The two have nothing to do with each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Your logic fails completely.

Do we indulge what the guests wish to do, or respect the wishes of our host?

Please answer.

Is your confidence in atheism so weak that a short prayer will shake your foundational beliefs?

A host will consider reasonable requests from guests. A short prayer is not an unreasonable request. They aren't asking to spout racist rants; they aren't asking to fart loudly at the table; other whatever other strawmen you posted above.

But what if the host finds prayer more offensive than farting?

You don’t care. You think your beliefs are paramount and screw everyone else’s, even in their home.

You are a bad and selfish person.

You should really reflect on your bigotry, I can’t be great to be so miserable and hateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Your logic fails completely.

Do we indulge what the guests wish to do, or respect the wishes of our host?

Please answer.

Is your confidence in atheism so weak that a short prayer will shake your foundational beliefs?

A host will consider reasonable requests from guests. A short prayer is not an unreasonable request. They aren't asking to spout racist rants; they aren't asking to fart loudly at the table; other whatever other strawmen you posted above.

But what if the host finds prayer more offensive than farting?

You don’t care. You think your beliefs are paramount and screw everyone else’s, even in their home.

You are a bad and selfish person.

You should really reflect on your bigotry, I can’t be great to be so miserable and hateful.

*it can’t be great

look, your family members are your family. You all should love and respect each other. Why you are so upset and angry about your family saying grace over a meal, that’s something you legitimately need help with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

You aren’t a victim. No one is forcing you not to pray. Don’t expect anyone else to participate to wait for you. Np, not even “being silent.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Your logic fails completely.

Do we indulge what the guests wish to do, or respect the wishes of our host?

Please answer.

Is your confidence in atheism so weak that a short prayer will shake your foundational beliefs?

A host will consider reasonable requests from guests. A short prayer is not an unreasonable request. They aren't asking to spout racist rants; they aren't asking to fart loudly at the table; other whatever other strawmen you posted above.

STOP DEFLECTING AND ANSWER THE QUESTION.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do what you like, but nothing is going to delay me from eating my stuffing, mashed potatoes, and turkey.

Yeah make sure you reach over your family members and get your plate loaded and start eating greedily, as quickly as possible. Heck, why even eat at the table with them? Get a to go plate and leave. Make sure you take extra large portions of each dish so you get as much food as possible. Let them enjoy their precious family time together- you don’t need all that lovey dovey fake crap about being thankful for food and togetherness. How fortunate, advanced logic and intelligence has rendered you immune to superstition, as well as manners. But you still want their food, and even though they lovingly purchased food, prepared dishes, and showed up, you owe them nothing, not even a few moments to be thankful before eating.

Blah blah blah. Pay in your Inside Voice before you eat. But you won’t, because then you won’t get that sweet, sweet attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Your logic fails completely.

Do we indulge what the guests wish to do, or respect the wishes of our host?

Please answer.

Is your confidence in atheism so weak that a short prayer will shake your foundational beliefs?

A host will consider reasonable requests from guests. A short prayer is not an unreasonable request. They aren't asking to spout racist rants; they aren't asking to fart loudly at the table; other whatever other strawmen you posted above.

STOP DEFLECTING AND ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Why are you shouting at other posters and making demands?

You really should go do something relaxing and work on your anger overall. It’s really not that important, this forum or thread. If you don’t have anything better to do maybe that’s why you take it so seriously. I promise you there are better things to do than argue here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ask them to make it a short prayer so the food doesn't get cold.

"God is great, God is good. Lord we thank you for this food. Amen."

" Rub a dub! dub!"
"Thanks for the grub!"
" Yaaaaay God!"

My uncle, a retired Catholic priest, has been known to use this prayer before meals when other family members make a BIG DEAL out of having a priest at the dinner table.

He’s not a fan of performative prayer.

Saying grace at thanksgiving is performative?

Maybe op having anxiety over family saying grace is performative.

DP, no, that's not his point. PP referenced the vanity of the host; pride in having a priest at the meal makes the prayer performative.

Most Catholics aren't fans of performative prayer. I like this quote from Pope Francis: "The Lord tells us: the first task in life is this: prayer. But not the prayer of words like a parrot, but the prayer of the heart, gazing on the Lord, hearing the Lord, asking the Lord."

Prayer is too often turned into something other than prayer. In PP's Thanksgiving example, the host made a "BIG DEAL" over the priest giving grace, which tuned grace into an act of vanity. The priest countered that by offering a humble blessing. In a public place shared by others like a restaurant, a humble, silent prayer is just as good for the earnest believer; there is no need to hold a public prayer meeting at Burger King. The louder and more publicly disruptive you are, the more your prayer risks being something else: vanity, proselytizing, pretense, hypocrisy.

A prayer with family over a meal is an act of vanity?


Christians have a long tradition of pausing and thanking God before eating a meal. It’s so common that sometimes we can slide into and out of our prayer without much thought.

It’s humbling to say, “thank you.” To give thanks before eating is an act of expressing gratitude.

In the life of Jesus, we see him regularly stopping to thank God for providing food. He prays before the feeding of the 5,000 (Matt. 14:19). He prays before the Last Supper (Matt. 26:26–29).

Are you a Christian, pp?

You didn't read my post. I did not say what you think I said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do what you like, but nothing is going to delay me from eating my stuffing, mashed potatoes, and turkey.

Yeah make sure you reach over your family members and get your plate loaded and start eating greedily, as quickly as possible. Heck, why even eat at the table with them? Get a to go plate and leave. Make sure you take extra large portions of each dish so you get as much food as possible. Let them enjoy their precious family time together- you don’t need all that lovey dovey fake crap about being thankful for food and togetherness. How fortunate, advanced logic and intelligence has rendered you immune to superstition, as well as manners. But you still want their food, and even though they lovingly purchased food, prepared dishes, and showed up, you owe them nothing, not even a few moments to be thankful before eating.

Blah blah blah. Pay in your Inside Voice before you eat. But you won’t, because then you won’t get that sweet, sweet attention.

You don’t think your absolute refusal to show respect to your loved ones as they pray is anything other than attention seeking behavior? Rushing in to fill your plate and eat while everyone else is participating in or being respectful of the blessing?

It absolutely is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do what you like, but nothing is going to delay me from eating my stuffing, mashed potatoes, and turkey.

Yeah make sure you reach over your family members and get your plate loaded and start eating greedily, as quickly as possible. Heck, why even eat at the table with them? Get a to go plate and leave. Make sure you take extra large portions of each dish so you get as much food as possible. Let them enjoy their precious family time together- you don’t need all that lovey dovey fake crap about being thankful for food and togetherness. How fortunate, advanced logic and intelligence has rendered you immune to superstition, as well as manners. But you still want their food, and even though they lovingly purchased food, prepared dishes, and showed up, you owe them nothing, not even a few moments to be thankful before eating.

What are you going on about? People are welcome to pray for as long as they wish, but I will be quietly eating my dinner. I do all the cooking, so I feel no compunction about eating when I wish. They can pray when they wish. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Wow, you cook an entire family Thanksgiving dinner alone for your entire family and no one brings any dishes to contribute to the meal? How long does that take you and why doesn’t your family bring any dishes to add to the dinner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

[Anonymous]

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/9lo1jp/is_it_disrespectful_not_to_bow_in_prayer_before_a/

Even the atheist subreddit thinks that not pausing to respect family members when they pray is rude and not a good thing to do.

“Good etiquette would be to place your hands in your lap and wait. Keep your head up and look around if you wish. If they do the hand holding, hold hands if you can't stand outside the circle (mostly works if everyone in standing in a loose circle).“

“You are not obliged to participate in their magic rituals but refusing to wait until they were done was a dick move.

“It does not cost you anything to do so. It also has the benefit of not creating unfortunate scenarios such as the one you describe.“

“I usually sit quietly and wait for them to do their weird ritual. I don’t start eating until they begin as I find it rude to do even without the prayers.“

It’s not about prayer; it’s about not being a jerk when gathered with your family to enjoy a meal together.

I guess dcum atheists are an outlier and the majority of atheists are respectful and have manners. I have found that to be true. Filling your plate and your mouth while others haven’t begun eating yet is just poor manners and open disrespect to your loved ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

Are atheists scared of prayer, even when it’s their family members or friends praying? Why is it so important that friends and family don’t say grace in your presence? I am a Christian and often at family meals when someone is praying and we have bowed heads, I look around to watch my family in prayer and am thankful we are all healthy and together. I have seen non-praying family members sitting quietly and we share a smile. It’s totally a moment of gratitude, and expression of love for family and friends. I don’t know why atheists are against it. It doesn’t hurt them. No one makes anyone participate. It seems like an issue that drives a wedge between families unnecessarily. No one has ever yelled at me for looking around during prayer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

Are atheists scared of prayer, even when it’s their family members or friends praying? Why is it so important that friends and family don’t say grace in your presence? I am a Christian and often at family meals when someone is praying and we have bowed heads, I look around to watch my family in prayer and am thankful we are all healthy and together. I have seen non-praying family members sitting quietly and we share a smile. It’s totally a moment of gratitude, and expression of love for family and friends. I don’t know why atheists are against it. It doesn’t hurt them. No one makes anyone participate. It seems like an issue that drives a wedge between families unnecessarily. No one has ever yelled at me for looking around during prayer.

DP. I'm not scared of it, but I do think it's extremely rude for a guest to ask others to do it. If a guest asked, I'd probably quieting go along with it - obviously not bowing head or closing eyes - and rethink the guest list for next time.