Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

If professors took the time to talk to every student about every breach of common courtesy/common sense, they would have no time left for doing what they're being paid to do.

Maybe there ought to be a remedial one-credit 'how to be a college student' class that college instructors can mandate for students who consistently show that they don't have the skills they need.

Sorry the job is hard, they can always dig ditches, that's so much easier. FFS. Are you kidding me. It's an f'ing email. Did you understand the context, move on. Again professors are so exhausting. We really need to hire teachers for college I am so sick of these full of themselves blow hard "researchers" who never learned how to teach or to live in the real world. We pay them all this money, they do a 1/2 arsed job at teaching and conduct "research" nobody cares about.

Tell me again how the students are the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

Then who will teach your child? YOU?!

How about teachers. Teachers would love to make the salary of a professor and actually teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,

I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.

He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.

He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.

And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.

Best regards,

Mom.

Oh FFS stop using their disabilities like a crutch. The professor is right and if your poor addled ADHD kids you have probably hovered over and made excuses for and bulldozed a path for over the years can’t meet basic expectations, you failed them.

dp.. obviously, people with ADHD have a harder time, but seriously, you cannot keep using this crutch into the workplace. Your boss won't care that you miss deadlines, and your coworkers won't care if you have adhd when you smell so badly no one wants to be in the conference room with you.

I often wonder what the plan is for all these SNs college grads. Do you steer them into becoming a CPA or actuary or computer programmer, etc. where they perhaps don't have to interact much with clients/customers? I mean the descriptions seem to indicate they have real problems functioning in the world.

No, my ADHD/anxiety/no EF kid got out of HS with a 3.5UW, went to a T100 school. Started as a premed/PT major and quickly learned that was not going to work. Had to learn how to go to all the extra session, talk to profs and decide when to drop the course for a W and figure out how to try and stay on track for their program. Then had to ultimately come to the self realization that the major/career path they desired might not work out for them, so had to deal with that and try to figure out what they wanted to major in. For my ADHD kid, this all came to a head in March of Freshman year when at 9pm the night before they needed to register for Fall sophomore year courses (10am registration slot). it was a 3+ hour phone call with them to let them vent and discuss and make "suggestions" and help them come and accept that their dream career wasn't going to happen---they just couldn't hack the science and memorization (medical field) and intensity of that---it's gut wrenching to have to help your kid come to that realization (they feel stupid and worthless when they've wanted to do this for years). So you talk to them and help them realize figure out the next steps.
Then since registration is at 10am, you help them map out what they need to do to switch majors and try to get into the courses they need for their new major (finance/business so they are a full year behind the intro courses and want to graduate in 4 years).

My kid was up, prepared and waiting at 7:55am for the first office to open at 8am. Got guidance from the "gatekeeper" for his original major for how to undeclared with them and then moved onto the business school "gatekeeper" and successfully registered for courses they needed at 10am.
It's was stressful but they did it.
It's a huge accomplishment when you are doing all of this all while feeling like your are worthless and "can't do anything right".
Notice, I didn't do any of it. I simply worked with my kid to make sure they knew everything they might need to do so they wouldn't get screwed up and not get classes.
Now my next kid, I have never had to do any of that, not since MS. They are self motivated, organized, no EF at all (probably have near photographic memory and extremely smart where everything comes easy to them). With them college is a different experience....there is not making sure they are on the right track or anything like that. They manage everything themselves...but they do not have ADHD.

Am trying to imagine how a kid gets to college thinking medical school is a viable option, based on their academic abilities. Did you seriously believe your child had realistic expectations for medical school?

Expectations for PT school, not med school. Personally, no, I figured it would likely end the way it did. But they really wanted to try and it's not my job to tell my kid they cannot achieve something without them at least attempting it. Many kids really come into their own in college---so you never know.

My kid made great strides with their learning issues in ES/MS and did well in HS. So they picked a school with a PT program (highly ranked but my kid did not get direct admit) and a path where a significant portion of remaining spots go to students at the school in the program my kid was in. So if they did well, they had a good chance at getting in. I wasn't going to kill my kid's lifelong dream. But we made sure they picked a good school that had excellent other options to major in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

They are paid to teach academic subjects, not how to turn your alarm clock on or do your laundry.

You're very defensive. Why don't you parent your kid rather than expecting a stranger to do it.

good grief.

No they are paid to do research, they are forced to teach to pay their salary. They don't give 2 f's about students.

You're very defensive. Why don't you expect teacher to teach students? FFS, every campus has a writing lab. Why not ask student to go their. You want at adult to go to mommy to understand sending emails. You ever thing maybe mom is a house cleaner, or disabled, or doesn't speak the language, hmmm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

I think the point is that you let them fail when they are KIDS, so that when they are adults and go to college, they don't look like buffoons.

+1 sort of, yes. I'm a PP, and I've taught my kids as much as I can about this stuff, but let's face it, they are still going to fail sometimes.

I think OP is probably just fed up because of the sheer number of kids they are seeing like this, not just the rare few times.

As to the point about helicoptering vs natural consequences.. I always tell my kids that parenting is walking a fine line between overbearing and hands off. As a parent, we have to find that fine line somewhere.

then he should be writing to HS principals. Please teach kids how to send a proper email. If a parent in HS helps a kid with anything they are helicoptering.

Also, as a person who works in the real world, an email is informational, just the information please... I don't have time for your BS long emails trying to sound literary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

If professors took the time to talk to every student about every breach of common courtesy/common sense, they would have no time left for doing what they're being paid to do.

Maybe there ought to be a remedial one-credit 'how to be a college student' class that college instructors can mandate for students who consistently show that they don't have the skills they need.

Sorry the job is hard, they can always dig ditches, that's so much easier. FFS. Are you kidding me. It's an f'ing email. Did you understand the context, move on. Again professors are so exhausting. We really need to hire teachers for college I am so sick of these full of themselves blow hard "researchers" who never learned how to teach or to live in the real world. We pay them all this money, they do a 1/2 arsed job at teaching and conduct "research" nobody cares about.

Tell me again how the students are the problem.

I teach at a liberal arts college. I do research, but teaching comes first - teaching my SUBJECT. And if my student reviews and numerous awards for teaching and student mentorship/advising are any indication, I am damn good at teaching said subject and forming relationships with students. Yes, a professor's job is to teach and to mentor. But is not, and never has been, a professor's job (or a high school teacher's job, for that matter) to teach your kid how to shower, show up on time, be respectful, or dress for the occasion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the recent thread about "why make your kid make their own dr. appointments" if you want to get a glimpse at what OP is talking about.

Reminded me of the same thread. You had multiple posters saying kids didn’t need to practice things like that. I suspect OP here would beg to differ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I generally agree with the points, just not the tone.

I have a comment about the syllabus, though. Most high school kids have never seen a detailed college syllabus. They don't exist at the high school level.
My freshman called me one night to report her shock that her professors had the entire semester's content and schedule in one document. She was surprised that they don't just give out the next topic or test date in class a week or so in advance, as teachers had done at every level of her prior schooling.

Really?

Even in my Midwest high school in the 1990’s we had class syllabus (granted it wasn’t as detailed as college ones but we had the topics and dates of assignments/tests outlined.

Your kid must have really not been paying attention.

Our teen's HS certainly doesn't publish a full semester, detailed syllabus with dates. Are you maybe generalizing on your experience with a single (non-local) high school 30 years ago?

People. You're missing the forest for the trees! It's not really about the syllabus. It's about being proactive and resourceful! If you need information, FIRST try to figure it out for yourself, whether that's by reviewing the syllabus or an internet search or whatever. If you cannot find the information after a good faith effort, THEN go ask the appropriate person whatever question you have.

So your kid isn't familiar with a syllabus. Fine. But why wouldn't a student review first whatever their teacher or prof gave them to determine if the material contains the information they need? That's one of the points OP was making. Be resourceful! Be proactive! Do as much as you can to figure it out for yourself before going to the prof. And this concept has to start when kids are young, which is why it's on parents. You cannot expect an 18 year old to suddenly be independent and resourceful if you never required them to figure things out for themselves growing up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

If professors took the time to talk to every student about every breach of common courtesy/common sense, they would have no time left for doing what they're being paid to do.

Maybe there ought to be a remedial one-credit 'how to be a college student' class that college instructors can mandate for students who consistently show that they don't have the skills they need.

Sorry the job is hard, they can always dig ditches, that's so much easier. FFS. Are you kidding me. It's an f'ing email. Did you understand the context, move on. Again professors are so exhausting. We really need to hire teachers for college I am so sick of these full of themselves blow hard "researchers" who never learned how to teach or to live in the real world. We pay them all this money, they do a 1/2 arsed job at teaching and conduct "research" nobody cares about.

Tell me again how the students are the problem.

I teach at a liberal arts college. I do research, but teaching comes first - teaching my SUBJECT. And if my student reviews and numerous awards for teaching and student mentorship/advising are any indication, I am damn good at teaching said subject and forming relationships with students. Yes, a professor's job is to teach and to mentor. But is not, and never has been, a professor's job (or a high school teacher's job, for that matter) to teach your kid how to shower, show up on time, be respectful, or dress for the occasion.

+1 It would be inappropriate for a professor to instruct on these matters--but as the go-betweens for their students and their future jobs (they help find internship sites, they write recommendations etc.), OP is giving sound advice for parents to think about with regard to how well they coached their children on these aspects--what professor is going to put their reputation on the line finding an internship site for a kid who doesn't shower or blithely asks the professors for notes on a meeting they had together? They will grade them on their academic work according to academic standards, but the kid is communicating they aren't ready for a professional situation. So either parents coach their kids on this earlier or they accept that their kid is less likely to get professional opportunities in college and strong recommendations for future professional opportunities.

[Anonymous]

"Expectations for PT school, not med school. Personally, no, I figured it would likely end the way it did. But they really wanted to try and it's not my job to tell my kid they cannot achieve something without them at least attempting it. Many kids really come into their own in college---so you never know.

My kid made great strides with their learning issues in ES/MS and did well in HS. So they picked a school with a PT program (highly ranked but my kid did not get direct admit) and a path where a significant portion of remaining spots go to students at the school in the program my kid was in. So if they did well, they had a good chance at getting in. I wasn't going to kill my kid's lifelong dream. But we made sure they picked a good school that had excellent other options to major in."

I don't want to derail OP's thread, but damn. This post deserves its own thread. Of course you snuff out ludicrous career aspirations and redirect them toward things they'd be good at, especially when it involves them destroying their GPA unnecessarily and therefore making it harder to get into the track they should be on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Expectations for PT school, not med school. Personally, no, I figured it would likely end the way it did. But they really wanted to try and it's not my job to tell my kid they cannot achieve something without them at least attempting it. Many kids really come into their own in college---so you never know.

My kid made great strides with their learning issues in ES/MS and did well in HS. So they picked a school with a PT program (highly ranked but my kid did not get direct admit) and a path where a significant portion of remaining spots go to students at the school in the program my kid was in. So if they did well, they had a good chance at getting in. I wasn't going to kill my kid's lifelong dream. But we made sure they picked a good school that had excellent other options to major in."

I don't want to derail OP's thread, but damn. This post deserves its own thread. Of course you snuff out ludicrous career aspirations and redirect them toward things they'd be good at, especially when it involves them destroying their GPA unnecessarily and therefore making it harder to get into the track they should be on.

+1

All parents should be steering their child toward what they are good at, not just what the parent would pick to live vicariously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

I think the point is that you let them fail when they are KIDS, so that when they are adults and go to college, they don't look like buffoons.

+1 sort of, yes. I'm a PP, and I've taught my kids as much as I can about this stuff, but let's face it, they are still going to fail sometimes.

I think OP is probably just fed up because of the sheer number of kids they are seeing like this, not just the rare few times.

As to the point about helicoptering vs natural consequences.. I always tell my kids that parenting is walking a fine line between overbearing and hands off. As a parent, we have to find that fine line somewhere.

then he should be writing to HS principals. Please teach kids how to send a proper email. If a parent in HS helps a kid with anything they are helicoptering.

Also, as a person who works in the real world, an email is informational, just the information please... I don't have time for your BS long emails trying to sound literary.

DP. You are kidding yourself and doing your kids a huge disservice if you think emails don't really matter in the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

Then who will teach your child? YOU?!

How about teachers. Teachers would love to make the salary of a professor and actually teach.

You understand that there’s a difference between a middle school teacher and a global expert in chemical engineering, right? One of these is not equipped to teach at the college level. And frankly, you’re damn lucky that professor has decided to teach—they could make waaaay more in industry.

[Anonymous]

"People. You're missing the forest for the trees! It's not really about the syllabus. It's about being proactive and resourceful! If you need information, FIRST try to figure it out for yourself, whether that's by reviewing the syllabus or an internet search or whatever. If you cannot find the information after a good faith effort, THEN go ask the appropriate person whatever question you have.

So your kid isn't familiar with a syllabus. Fine. But why wouldn't a student review first whatever their teacher or prof gave them to determine if the material contains the information they need? That's one of the points OP was making. Be resourceful! Be proactive! Do as much as you can to figure it out for yourself before going to the prof. And this concept has to start when kids are young, which is why it's on parents. You cannot expect an 18 year old to suddenly be independent and resourceful if you never required them to figure things out for themselves growing up."

+100

I don't get why parents are being so defensive here.

Here's a great way to teach this: When searching for colleges, take the time to look at the school's website where they will tell you all sorts of things like whether the school requires all students to take certain classes freshman year, whether they require all freshman to live on campus, whether you have to apply into a specific major, what GPA is required for merit awards, and so on. Do not waste everyone's time during your campus visit asking these questions. It's about being resourceful, doing some work yourself, and not abusing the time of other people.

It's also about teaching kids (while in high school) that they should not ask for the person in charge to make exceptions to the rules just for them. If your DC is going on a class trip to Washington, DC with a tour group and the tour group's website says to only bring a carry-on and the small backpack they provide to each participant, don't let your DC show up with a full-size suitcase. Explain to your DC that there's probably a reason they need to limit luggage and that unless your DC has a medical need to requires them to take along special medical equipment, they should just follow the rule and not expect that it doesn't apply to them. People need to learn (while they're young) that they aren't more special than everyone else. Too many kids from UMC backgrounds grow up thinking the rules for "the little people" don't apply to them.

[Anonymous]

I can just imagine what the response here would be if someone posted that their child was told by their professor that they needed to shower…sexual harassment! Discrimination! Overstep! Cultural insensitivity! My child is neurodiverse and is averse to water! How dare they?! Stay in your lane! Et cetera, et cetera.