Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

[Anonymous]

The replies to this thread pretty much prove OP's point. Parents making excuses for their kids, getting defensive, trying to flip it back on the prof for being entitled or jaded. There will always be college students who don't take things seriously, are lazy, or who have unique challenges that make it difficult for them in certain respects, but those students should be the outliers rather than the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I generally agree with the points, just not the tone.

I have a comment about the syllabus, though. Most high school kids have never seen a detailed college syllabus. They don't exist at the high school level.
My freshman called me one night to report her shock that her professors had the entire semester's content and schedule in one document. She was surprised that they don't just give out the next topic or test date in class a week or so in advance, as teachers had done at every level of her prior schooling.

Really?

Even in my Midwest high school in the 1990’s we had class syllabus (granted it wasn’t as detailed as college ones but we had the topics and dates of assignments/tests outlined.

Your kid must have really not been paying attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I generally agree with the points, just not the tone.

I have a comment about the syllabus, though. Most high school kids have never seen a detailed college syllabus. They don't exist at the high school level.
My freshman called me one night to report her shock that her professors had the entire semester's content and schedule in one document. She was surprised that they don't just give out the next topic or test date in class a week or so in advance, as teachers had done at every level of her prior schooling.

Really?

Even in my Midwest high school in the 1990’s we had class syllabus (granted it wasn’t as detailed as college ones but we had the topics and dates of assignments/tests outlined.

Your kid must have really not been paying attention.

That was the 90s. I have three kids, and the syllabi they received at the beginning of the semester were a general outline of topics to be covered - never with dates. Dates get added as they move through the material, depending on how much material has been covered. TI reviewed all of them each year, so no, it wasn't my kids not paying attention. I've even asked about it and was told that dates get adjusted depending on the progress the class is making, so there is no point in putting dates on a syllabus.

[Anonymous]

NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

It CAN be. But often (usually, TBH) it's not.

[Anonymous]

Look at the recent thread about "why make your kid make their own dr. appointments" if you want to get a glimpse at what OP is talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

It CAN be. But often (usually, TBH) it's not.

Sure, okay. So…what then? Are we just venting and blaming? What moves the discussion, and families/kids, forward?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

Yes. God. So well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

I think the point is that you let them fail when they are KIDS, so that when they are adults and go to college, they don't look like buffoons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

It CAN be. But often (usually, TBH) it's not.

Sure, okay. So…what then? Are we just venting and blaming? What moves the discussion, and families/kids, forward?

Being a parent. It is a shame we have gotten to the point where people need directions for how to move their families/kids forward in basic life skills like personal hygiene, timeliness, and being respectful to professors/bosses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

Agree - Have neuro divergent DC and find the list helpful.

I did not even take issue with the tone as I get frustrated myself trying to repeatedly explain why basic life and communication skills are important. As you woukd know, the frontal cortex of young people with ADHD are even more immature than the average teenager. Common sense is not their forte. It helps to be able to offer similar advice from the college professors’ perspective.

The real world will be far less forgiving with failures to be on time, prepare for tests/ assignments/ work in advance, maintain hygiene, clean up after self, and be respectful of time and authority, than parents are.

Becoming a responsible independent adult is a long slow process for sure - but paying attention to these little often overlooked details should help.

Thanks OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I generally agree with the points, just not the tone.

I have a comment about the syllabus, though. Most high school kids have never seen a detailed college syllabus. They don't exist at the high school level.
My freshman called me one night to report her shock that her professors had the entire semester's content and schedule in one document. She was surprised that they don't just give out the next topic or test date in class a week or so in advance, as teachers had done at every level of her prior schooling.

Really?

Even in my Midwest high school in the 1990’s we had class syllabus (granted it wasn’t as detailed as college ones but we had the topics and dates of assignments/tests outlined.

Your kid must have really not been paying attention.

Our teen's HS certainly doesn't publish a full semester, detailed syllabus with dates. Are you maybe generalizing on your experience with a single (non-local) high school 30 years ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m a staff member at a university, so I’ve seen a lot of exceptional student behavior, and a lot of entitled/inept student behavior.

My question to you are: why are you, at this point, blaming the parents for the behavior you see in 18+ college students?

When I was in college, I occasionally skipped class, I definitely didn’t study hard enough, and I flubbed the start time of two finals. I once tried to engage the “help” of government and politics faculty members because of essentially a phishing scheme related to human rights violations. (It was the early days of the Internet, but…cringe!)

I had some growing up to do. On my own. That’s…rather the point of college.

My parents didn’t fail to tell me to go to every class, they didn’t fail to raise me to set alarm clocks, they didn’t fail to teach me how to use calendars and budget my time and check syllabi and read through instructions, etc. They didn’t fail to tell me not to drink too much, and to stay with friends and stay safe and not walk alone, etc., etc.

I didn’t follow every rule, guideline, and bit of advice they gave me. Did you?

I agree with you that parents should never be in contact with faculty/staff/administration/RAs unless there is some actual emergency. But other than that, your finger-wagging at parents for their college students not being fully-formed, fully responsible adults is just…way off-base.

Who is expecting college students to be fully formed and fully responsible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

I think the point is that you let them fail when they are KIDS, so that when they are adults and go to college, they don't look like buffoons.

+1 sort of, yes. I'm a PP, and I've taught my kids as much as I can about this stuff, but let's face it, they are still going to fail sometimes.

I think OP is probably just fed up because of the sheer number of kids they are seeing like this, not just the rare few times.

As to the point about helicoptering vs natural consequences.. I always tell my kids that parenting is walking a fine line between overbearing and hands off. As a parent, we have to find that fine line somewhere.