What is the End Game in Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IDK honestly, but it seems like this war is definitely putting a strain on European Union when it comes to access to oil and affordable heating/cooling for its citizens. Sounds like Europe at this moment is the one that's going to suffer harder toll on its populations' standard of living.

Well, it is either a short term strain on the EU, or everyone from France to China speaking Russian in a few decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDK honestly, but it seems like this war is definitely putting a strain on European Union when it comes to access to oil and affordable heating/cooling for its citizens. Sounds like Europe at this moment is the one that's going to suffer harder toll on its populations' standard of living.

Well, it is either a short term strain on the EU, or everyone from France to China speaking Russian in a few decades.

Just like we would be ruled by Iraq if we didn’t go in.

Seems like only Trump can manage a peaceful world. The idiots before and after are just way stupider …they know it and hate him for proving it for everybody to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I should preface this by saying that I'm not a pro-Russian troll. The invasion of Ukraine is both unprovoked and has led to an unending stream of Russian atrocities. I would love to see Russia pushed out of both Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

But I'm getting confused about Ukraine's prognosis and our own objectives. Ukraine has failed to reclaim any significant territory since Kharkiv in the Spring. They lack the manpower to conduct the urban warfare required to push Russia from its defensive positions. From everything I've read the HIMARS long-range missiles donated by the US, while allowing spectacular strikes behind Russian lines, are not likely to substantially affect Russia's long-term defensive capabilities. So we have a long-term (maybe permanent) stalemate. Except it's only a stalemate because of constant infusions of weapons from NATO countries.

So are you supportive of a permanent lien on the US military budget to keep the war as a stalemate? Is that even a moral choice, given the civilian destruction that will result? Should we be pressing instead for some negotiated swap of territory for peace? Or is it better to keep on present course, checkmating Russia by proxy even at a cost to Ukraine's civilian population and military?

unfortunately at this point all Ukrainians hate the Russians with the kind of passion that will take generations to die away. This war will probably smolder for 100 years. You cannot awake such passions and expect peace again in your lifetime.

You say this yet a similar emotion rose in Chechnya after the war, and remember Chechnya suffered more than Ukraine did as of now. You would have thought the hatred would smolder but it did not. Chechens may dislike both regimes but they have no particular problem with ethnic Russians. So, I think that under the right circumstances, the hatred would be contained to those who inherited it through their DNA and that involves mostly Western and Poland-oriented Ukrainians, who are a minority.

The fact of the matter is that both countries are neighbors and share a border. This will not change. They will have to find some way to coexist and they will.

I admit I didn't know much about the Chechnya war. Accord to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War#Civilian_losses 60 thousand died. Wow.

but the difference is the Chechens knew they actually deserved it. It seems like it was a lawless country that lived off kidnapping.

The Ukranians did nothing to deserve it. That is why their hate will never go away. They are more like the palestians and less like the Japanese/Germans after WWII.

another more useful analogy might be Afganistan.

No country would see Afghanistan as a useful role model.

Don't worry it's just some insane framing from our friendly trolls. They also claimed that Chechens "knew they actually deserved it" while also claiming to know nothing about it.

He’s right tho that chechens are much less sympathetic as victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDK honestly, but it seems like this war is definitely putting a strain on European Union when it comes to access to oil and affordable heating/cooling for its citizens. Sounds like Europe at this moment is the one that's going to suffer harder toll on its populations' standard of living.

Well, it is either a short term strain on the EU, or everyone from France to China speaking Russian in a few decades.

Just like we would be ruled by Iraq if we didn’t go in.

Seems like only Trump can manage a peaceful world. The idiots before and after are just way stupider …they know it and hate him for proving it for everybody to see.

Ah yes… siding with Russia, and against Ukraine to own the libs.
Cool story bro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDK honestly, but it seems like this war is definitely putting a strain on European Union when it comes to access to oil and affordable heating/cooling for its citizens. Sounds like Europe at this moment is the one that's going to suffer harder toll on its populations' standard of living.

Well, it is either a short term strain on the EU, or everyone from France to China speaking Russian in a few decades.

Just like we would be ruled by Iraq if we didn’t go in.

Seems like only Trump can manage a peaceful world. The idiots before and after are just way stupider …they know it and hate him for proving it for everybody to see.

Ah yes… siding with Russia, and against Ukraine to own the libs.
Cool story bro.

You don't have to side with Russia to accurately assess the limits of this conflict.

Surely you understand that "Ukraine today, Europe tomorrow" is a talking point sold to you, not a reflection of any kind of reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
IDK honestly, but it seems like this war is definitely putting a strain on European Union when it comes to access to oil and affordable heating/cooling for its citizens. Sounds like Europe at this moment is the one that's going to suffer harder toll on its populations' standard of living.


Well, it is either a short term strain on the EU, or everyone from France to China speaking Russian in a few decades.


Just like we would be ruled by Iraq if we didn’t go in.

Seems like only Trump can manage a peaceful world. The idiots before and after are just way stupider …they know it and hate him for proving it for everybody to see.


Ah yes… siding with Russia, and against Ukraine to own the libs.
Cool story bro.


You don't have to side with Russia to accurately assess the limits of this conflict.

Surely you understand that "Ukraine today, Europe tomorrow" is a talking point sold to you, not a reflection of any kind of reality.

I guess Finland and Sweden got sold by that talking point as well.

[Anonymous]

Best case scenario is, Ukraine gets destroyed but gets to contain Russia.

Worst case scenario is, Ukraine gets destroyed and Russia gets what it wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should preface this by saying that I'm not a pro-Russian troll. The invasion of Ukraine is both unprovoked and has led to an unending stream of Russian atrocities. I would love to see Russia pushed out of both Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

But I'm getting confused about Ukraine's prognosis and our own objectives. Ukraine has failed to reclaim any significant territory since Kharkiv in the Spring. They lack the manpower to conduct the urban warfare required to push Russia from its defensive positions. From everything I've read the HIMARS long-range missiles donated by the US, while allowing spectacular strikes behind Russian lines, are not likely to substantially affect Russia's long-term defensive capabilities. So we have a long-term (maybe permanent) stalemate. Except it's only a stalemate because of constant infusions of weapons from NATO countries.

So are you supportive of a permanent lien on the US military budget to keep the war as a stalemate? Is that even a moral choice, given the civilian destruction that will result? Should we be pressing instead for some negotiated swap of territory for peace? Or is it better to keep on present course, checkmating Russia by proxy even at a cost to Ukraine's civilian population and military?

The goal should be to flush Russian spies and shills out of U.S. web forums and require them to spend the rest of their careers working as a telephone-based fundraisers for Ukrainian reconstruction efforts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDK honestly, but it seems like this war is definitely putting a strain on European Union when it comes to access to oil and affordable heating/cooling for its citizens. Sounds like Europe at this moment is the one that's going to suffer harder toll on its populations' standard of living.

Well, it is either a short term strain on the EU, or everyone from France to China speaking Russian in a few decades.

Just like we would be ruled by Iraq if we didn’t go in.

Seems like only Trump can manage a peaceful world. The idiots before and after are just way stupider …they know it and hate him for proving it for everybody to see.

Ah yes… siding with Russia, and against Ukraine to own the libs.
Cool story bro.

You don't have to side with Russia to accurately assess the limits of this conflict.

Surely you understand that "Ukraine today, Europe tomorrow" is a talking point sold to you, not a reflection of any kind of reality.

Russia is planning to nuke large parts of the world and try to conquer it. The whole Russian effort to manipulate DCUM shows that it's investing enormous resources in trying to fight and win World War III.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDK honestly, but it seems like this war is definitely putting a strain on European Union when it comes to access to oil and affordable heating/cooling for its citizens. Sounds like Europe at this moment is the one that's going to suffer harder toll on its populations' standard of living.

Well, it is either a short term strain on the EU, or everyone from France to China speaking Russian in a few decades.

Just like we would be ruled by Iraq if we didn’t go in.

Seems like only Trump can manage a peaceful world. The idiots before and after are just way stupider …they know it and hate him for proving it for everybody to see.

Ah yes… siding with Russia, and against Ukraine to own the libs.
Cool story bro.

You don't have to side with Russia to accurately assess the limits of this conflict.

Surely you understand that "Ukraine today, Europe tomorrow" is a talking point sold to you, not a reflection of any kind of reality.

Russia is planning to nuke large parts of the world and try to conquer it. The whole Russian effort to manipulate DCUM shows that it's investing enormous resources in trying to fight and win World War III.

I have seen the Russian plan to nuke Mars, then the Sun.

This Putin guy must be stopped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Either we enter the war to end it or we the people put more flags in our twitter bio's.

Well, men of fighting age are fleeing the country.

[Anonymous]

I hate to sound pro Russian, I am not, but without all the flirting the West was engaging in with Ukraine and Georgia, and to some extent Moldova, all this wouldn’t have happened. Even if they stopped the flirting on time it would have been fine.
But maybe the west was ok with Slavs fighting. And EU was too dumb to see the consequences to their own economy?
So now, the endgame is to weaken Russia as much as possible. To the last Ukrainian I am afraid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to sound pro Russian, I am not, but without all the flirting the West was engaging in with Ukraine and Georgia, and to some extent Moldova, all this wouldn’t have happened. Even if they stopped the flirting on time it would have been fine.
But maybe the west was ok with Slavs fighting. And EU was too dumb to see the consequences to their own economy?
So now, the endgame is to weaken Russia as much as possible. To the last Ukrainian I am afraid

Honey. Come on…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to sound pro Russian, I am not, but without all the flirting the West was engaging in with Ukraine and Georgia, and to some extent Moldova, all this wouldn’t have happened. Even if they stopped the flirting on time it would have been fine.
But maybe the west was ok with Slavs fighting. And EU was too dumb to see the consequences to their own economy?
So now, the endgame is to weaken Russia as much as possible. To the last Ukrainian I am afraid

I am thinking the same
Zelensky is ok with sacrificing his people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to sound pro Russian, I am not, but without all the flirting the West was engaging in with Ukraine and Georgia, and to some extent Moldova, all this wouldn’t have happened. Even if they stopped the flirting on time it would have been fine.
But maybe the west was ok with Slavs fighting. And EU was too dumb to see the consequences to their own economy?
So now, the endgame is to weaken Russia as much as possible. To the last Ukrainian I am afraid

Still not an acceptable excuse for Russia invading a sovereign country.

The West tried doing nothing when Russia took Crimea. The West was prepared to do nothing again after Russia attacked in February. It was only after Ukraine proved to the world they wanted to stand against Russia that the West decided to give them a bunch of weapons.