Parents please believe your child’s teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, glad you're back.

You still haven't responded to criticism of this part of your OP:

And your child on the spectrum is not only “a loner genius”, they’re autistic. And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim.

Do you really not see how statement like this are essentially designed to make parents angry and defensive? You are not qualified to diagnose a child with autism, and if you are speaking like this to parents with autistic children, do you really not understand that they are own their own difficult journey that you simply do not understand? And your phrasing here about kids who get picked on is absolutely unacceptable from a teacher. Absolutely, 100%, not acceptable. Parents with kids who are being picked on and bullied are ALWAYS working with their kids to figure out how to keep themselves from being a target. Do you have kids? Do you not understand how heartbreaking it is to have send your kid to school where another kid is making fun of them or tormenting them? If there was a magic thing you could tell your kid to keep it from happening, you would.

It's just so condescending. If a teacher said this to me about my kid who was being tormented, not only would I not "believe her", I'd ask that my kid be removed from her class. When I child is being consistently picked on in your classroom, the answer is for the adult in the room to intervene, and work with the kids to address these issues. I get that you don't have perfect control, but you have more than I do in that moment, and "sorry kiddo but you've got to stop making yourself a victim here" is NOT going to cut it. Address the problem.

Fortunately I've never had a teacher pull this with me -- we've always had good relationships built on trust and mutual respect. But what you wrote in your OP was not trusting or respectful. I think if you have enough poor relationships with parents to write something like this, the problem might be you.

Well folks I apologize for triggering so many parents with this post. Please know that I would never in a million years be so blunt in an actual conversation with a parent of a struggling student. I DO understand how heartbreaking it is, having been on the receiving end of such information twice. Please know, however, that there are many many parents out there who would rather deny that a problem exists and verbally attack the teacher for bringing it up in the most respectful, compassionate way. That was the audience for this post - parents who will leave their child, the teacher and sometimes the entire affected class hanging because they cannot believe that their child might need extra support. It is completely demoralizing for all involved. So, with those experiences under my belt along with the multiple chastisements posted in this thread from parents who DO want to support their struggling children, I will think twice about having these conversations in the future. You have cut me down to size, put me in my place, and schooled the teacher.

OP,
Thank you for your attempt here. I’m a teacher, but for the moment I’m going to speak from the perspective of a parent. I had a teacher who sat me down and gave me some raw, upsetting information about my own child. No other teacher had done that. I was defensive at first. I wanted to defend my child, her upbringing, and all I had already done to try to prepare her for school. I took the teacher’s comments as a criticism and, initially, I was mad at the teacher for exposing something I didn’t want to accept or deal with. Two years later, I have nothing but appreciation for that teacher. She took the time to really learn about my child and she cared enough to put herself in that uncomfortable position. I can’t imagine she relished having that conversation with me. What she said was a spark and I am now grateful for her insights.

I know you were speaking from experience and you weren’t speaking to ALL parents. I think the reason you got so much heat in response is because (A) we are all very defensive about our own children and (B) this is DCUM and our intentions/tone don’t always translate the way we want them to.

OP here - thank you, fellow teacher and fellow parent. I concur with all you said and how well you said it. My old pony, Trigger, is back in his stall and I will give myself a bit more time between a hard day and posting anything on a public forum. Your balanced assessment of WHY these conversations can be so difficult is spot on.

Honestly as a parent I thought your post was fine and I was surprised at all the comments. But I have mainly had positive interactions with teachers around social issues that have come up for my kid. Also, I'm the one who has brought them up.

One question I have though is this: "And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim" - this seems suspect to me. How do you teach this? At home it's so easy to say do x do y when so and so bothers you. I don't think it helps. This is an age old problem and I don't really see how we parents can actually help our victim kids. Seems like only the teacher can devise a solution in the moment. And unless it's super obvious bullying, they usually don't do anything in my experience.

The only way to teach someone to not be a victim in this context is to teach them to stand up for themselves, fight back and have self-respect. I don't see how schools can teach that or how parents can do that without information.

"Fight back" how? Be specific. Surely you're not suggesting physical fighting?

If they are being physically assaulted then yes. It's called self-defense and self-respect. What would you suggest as a response to physical assault? Remember that we are talking about kids that are being bullied. Should they accept it? If not, what should they do?

Good luck with that. Schools have zero tolerance policies for any kind of physical violence, even if it is self defense. The bullied child who hits back will end up getting detention or be suspended.

+1

This. The perp only gets worse - wait until high school, when the perp's parents are well practiced at total denial, and threatening the school system to not pull their "sweet boy" (always this). Doesn't get better. Other parents need to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with trusting teachers and the administration about my child was that it meant DC missed out on two years of appropriate reading instruction. Those two years are also some of the most impactful with regard to reading. Apparently DC was put on a watch list in kindergarten, this was not revealed to us until mid-second grade when we were having our first IEP meeting. The secrecy involved in that and the amount of pushback we received that initial year and in subsequent years destroyed any trust I had in the teachers and administrators. “The gift of time” is most detrimental to the students that are in need of the most help.

Can you elaborate on what this "watchlist" is?

x1000000

"The gift of time" - parents need to be aware that this is an enormous red flag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, glad you're back.

You still haven't responded to criticism of this part of your OP:

And your child on the spectrum is not only “a loner genius”, they’re autistic. And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim.

Do you really not see how statement like this are essentially designed to make parents angry and defensive? You are not qualified to diagnose a child with autism, and if you are speaking like this to parents with autistic children, do you really not understand that they are own their own difficult journey that you simply do not understand? And your phrasing here about kids who get picked on is absolutely unacceptable from a teacher. Absolutely, 100%, not acceptable. Parents with kids who are being picked on and bullied are ALWAYS working with their kids to figure out how to keep themselves from being a target. Do you have kids? Do you not understand how heartbreaking it is to have send your kid to school where another kid is making fun of them or tormenting them? If there was a magic thing you could tell your kid to keep it from happening, you would.

It's just so condescending. If a teacher said this to me about my kid who was being tormented, not only would I not "believe her", I'd ask that my kid be removed from her class. When I child is being consistently picked on in your classroom, the answer is for the adult in the room to intervene, and work with the kids to address these issues. I get that you don't have perfect control, but you have more than I do in that moment, and "sorry kiddo but you've got to stop making yourself a victim here" is NOT going to cut it. Address the problem.

Fortunately I've never had a teacher pull this with me -- we've always had good relationships built on trust and mutual respect. But what you wrote in your OP was not trusting or respectful. I think if you have enough poor relationships with parents to write something like this, the problem might be you.

Well folks I apologize for triggering so many parents with this post. Please know that I would never in a million years be so blunt in an actual conversation with a parent of a struggling student. I DO understand how heartbreaking it is, having been on the receiving end of such information twice. Please know, however, that there are many many parents out there who would rather deny that a problem exists and verbally attack the teacher for bringing it up in the most respectful, compassionate way. That was the audience for this post - parents who will leave their child, the teacher and sometimes the entire affected class hanging because they cannot believe that their child might need extra support. It is completely demoralizing for all involved. So, with those experiences under my belt along with the multiple chastisements posted in this thread from parents who DO want to support their struggling children, I will think twice about having these conversations in the future. You have cut me down to size, put me in my place, and schooled the teacher.

OP,
Thank you for your attempt here. I’m a teacher, but for the moment I’m going to speak from the perspective of a parent. I had a teacher who sat me down and gave me some raw, upsetting information about my own child. No other teacher had done that. I was defensive at first. I wanted to defend my child, her upbringing, and all I had already done to try to prepare her for school. I took the teacher’s comments as a criticism and, initially, I was mad at the teacher for exposing something I didn’t want to accept or deal with. Two years later, I have nothing but appreciation for that teacher. She took the time to really learn about my child and she cared enough to put herself in that uncomfortable position. I can’t imagine she relished having that conversation with me. What she said was a spark and I am now grateful for her insights.

I know you were speaking from experience and you weren’t speaking to ALL parents. I think the reason you got so much heat in response is because (A) we are all very defensive about our own children and (B) this is DCUM and our intentions/tone don’t always translate the way we want them to.

OP here - thank you, fellow teacher and fellow parent. I concur with all you said and how well you said it. My old pony, Trigger, is back in his stall and I will give myself a bit more time between a hard day and posting anything on a public forum. Your balanced assessment of WHY these conversations can be so difficult is spot on.

Honestly as a parent I thought your post was fine and I was surprised at all the comments. But I have mainly had positive interactions with teachers around social issues that have come up for my kid. Also, I'm the one who has brought them up.

One question I have though is this: "And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim" - this seems suspect to me. How do you teach this? At home it's so easy to say do x do y when so and so bothers you. I don't think it helps. This is an age old problem and I don't really see how we parents can actually help our victim kids. Seems like only the teacher can devise a solution in the moment. And unless it's super obvious bullying, they usually don't do anything in my experience.

The only way to teach someone to not be a victim in this context is to teach them to stand up for themselves, fight back and have self-respect. I don't see how schools can teach that or how parents can do that without information.

"Fight back" how? Be specific. Surely you're not suggesting physical fighting?

If they are being physically assaulted then yes. It's called self-defense and self-respect. What would you suggest as a response to physical assault? Remember that we are talking about kids that are being bullied. Should they accept it? If not, what should they do?

Good luck with that. Schools have zero tolerance policies for any kind of physical violence, even if it is self defense. The bullied child who hits back will end up getting detention or be suspended.

That's the point. Only a parent can teach that. The school is constrained. Teaching a kid to turtle, run away, or accept the bullying does not help them to not become a permanent victim. There are things school centered supports are good at. Protecting oneself against bullies is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with trusting teachers and the administration about my child was that it meant DC missed out on two years of appropriate reading instruction. Those two years are also some of the most impactful with regard to reading. Apparently DC was put on a watch list in kindergarten, this was not revealed to us until mid-second grade when we were having our first IEP meeting. The secrecy involved in that and the amount of pushback we received that initial year and in subsequent years destroyed any trust I had in the teachers and administrators. “The gift of time” is most detrimental to the students that are in need of the most help.

Can you elaborate on what this "watchlist" is?

In my school (DCPS) the watchlist is compiled by a grade level team at the end of year to give to the next team up (so K would make a list to give to 1). We put kids on the list that we want to be sure get intervention right off the bat. This also means a tier program and documentation can begin immediately. Each tier cycle is about 8 weeks. If we go through 2 cycles and goals aren't met then we start talking about something more formal like an IEP. The watchlist is meant to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, glad you're back.

You still haven't responded to criticism of this part of your OP:

And your child on the spectrum is not only “a loner genius”, they’re autistic. And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim.

Do you really not see how statement like this are essentially designed to make parents angry and defensive? You are not qualified to diagnose a child with autism, and if you are speaking like this to parents with autistic children, do you really not understand that they are own their own difficult journey that you simply do not understand? And your phrasing here about kids who get picked on is absolutely unacceptable from a teacher. Absolutely, 100%, not acceptable. Parents with kids who are being picked on and bullied are ALWAYS working with their kids to figure out how to keep themselves from being a target. Do you have kids? Do you not understand how heartbreaking it is to have send your kid to school where another kid is making fun of them or tormenting them? If there was a magic thing you could tell your kid to keep it from happening, you would.

It's just so condescending. If a teacher said this to me about my kid who was being tormented, not only would I not "believe her", I'd ask that my kid be removed from her class. When I child is being consistently picked on in your classroom, the answer is for the adult in the room to intervene, and work with the kids to address these issues. I get that you don't have perfect control, but you have more than I do in that moment, and "sorry kiddo but you've got to stop making yourself a victim here" is NOT going to cut it. Address the problem.

Fortunately I've never had a teacher pull this with me -- we've always had good relationships built on trust and mutual respect. But what you wrote in your OP was not trusting or respectful. I think if you have enough poor relationships with parents to write something like this, the problem might be you.

Well folks I apologize for triggering so many parents with this post. Please know that I would never in a million years be so blunt in an actual conversation with a parent of a struggling student. I DO understand how heartbreaking it is, having been on the receiving end of such information twice. Please know, however, that there are many many parents out there who would rather deny that a problem exists and verbally attack the teacher for bringing it up in the most respectful, compassionate way. That was the audience for this post - parents who will leave their child, the teacher and sometimes the entire affected class hanging because they cannot believe that their child might need extra support. It is completely demoralizing for all involved. So, with those experiences under my belt along with the multiple chastisements posted in this thread from parents who DO want to support their struggling children, I will think twice about having these conversations in the future. You have cut me down to size, put me in my place, and schooled the teacher.

OP,
Thank you for your attempt here. I’m a teacher, but for the moment I’m going to speak from the perspective of a parent. I had a teacher who sat me down and gave me some raw, upsetting information about my own child. No other teacher had done that. I was defensive at first. I wanted to defend my child, her upbringing, and all I had already done to try to prepare her for school. I took the teacher’s comments as a criticism and, initially, I was mad at the teacher for exposing something I didn’t want to accept or deal with. Two years later, I have nothing but appreciation for that teacher. She took the time to really learn about my child and she cared enough to put herself in that uncomfortable position. I can’t imagine she relished having that conversation with me. What she said was a spark and I am now grateful for her insights.

I know you were speaking from experience and you weren’t speaking to ALL parents. I think the reason you got so much heat in response is because (A) we are all very defensive about our own children and (B) this is DCUM and our intentions/tone don’t always translate the way we want them to.

OP here - thank you, fellow teacher and fellow parent. I concur with all you said and how well you said it. My old pony, Trigger, is back in his stall and I will give myself a bit more time between a hard day and posting anything on a public forum. Your balanced assessment of WHY these conversations can be so difficult is spot on.

Honestly as a parent I thought your post was fine and I was surprised at all the comments. But I have mainly had positive interactions with teachers around social issues that have come up for my kid. Also, I'm the one who has brought them up.

One question I have though is this: "And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim" - this seems suspect to me. How do you teach this? At home it's so easy to say do x do y when so and so bothers you. I don't think it helps. This is an age old problem and I don't really see how we parents can actually help our victim kids. Seems like only the teacher can devise a solution in the moment. And unless it's super obvious bullying, they usually don't do anything in my experience.

The only way to teach someone to not be a victim in this context is to teach them to stand up for themselves, fight back and have self-respect. I don't see how schools can teach that or how parents can do that without information.

"Fight back" how? Be specific. Surely you're not suggesting physical fighting?

If they are being physically assaulted then yes. It's called self-defense and self-respect. What would you suggest as a response to physical assault? Remember that we are talking about kids that are being bullied. Should they accept it? If not, what should they do?

Good luck with that. Schools have zero tolerance policies for any kind of physical violence, even if it is self defense. The bullied child who hits back will end up getting detention or be suspended.

That's the point. Only a parent can teach that. The school is constrained. Teaching a kid to turtle, run away, or accept the bullying does not help them to not become a permanent victim. There are things school centered supports are good at. Protecting oneself against bullies is not one of them.

This is such a catch-22 and perfectly illustrates why the attitude OP expressed "you're kid need to learn how not to be a victim" is a problem.

First off, I don't know any parent who would tell their kid to "accept the bullying." If that did happen, I would actually assume that the parent in question had a serious history with trauma and abuse and would try to hook that family up with the school's family supports because that's a trauma response.

Second, if a teacher or school is not actively working on not just addressing incidents of bullying behavior, but also working on socio-emotional skills and building a culture of support and kindness, it actually does not matter what you tell your kid in terms of avoiding bullying. This is 100% the purview of educators. Sure, some of the kids doing the bullying are learning it at home and those families are not doing what they can to stop it. That happens. But if bullying is happening beyond isolated incidents with a few kids, it's a reflection on the administration and individual teachers who are not doing what needs to be done to stop this behavior. Bullying is a cultural/environmental issue as much as anything.

It's good for kids to learn strategies to avoid becoming a target of a bully or to diffuse bullying situations. But those skills can take years to learn and are not always effective. Sometimes those skills are actually bad things to teach kids because what you are actually teaching them is how to assimilate or mask aspects of themselves that might provoke bullying. Kids who learn to do that can wind up with mental health issues later in life because they learned to conceal whatever it is that makes them different.

Stopping bullying is never the responsibility of the victims, and it's definitely not the responsibility of the victim's parents. I advise my kids on ways to deal with bullies, but what I say only goes so far. The teacher and the school need to be paying attention, intervening where necessary, and doing class-wide or school-wide education to prevent it from happening in the future. I can't do any of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with trusting teachers and the administration about my child was that it meant DC missed out on two years of appropriate reading instruction. Those two years are also some of the most impactful with regard to reading. Apparently DC was put on a watch list in kindergarten, this was not revealed to us until mid-second grade when we were having our first IEP meeting. The secrecy involved in that and the amount of pushback we received that initial year and in subsequent years destroyed any trust I had in the teachers and administrators. “The gift of time” is most detrimental to the students that are in need of the most help.

Can you elaborate on what this "watchlist" is?

In my school (DCPS) the watchlist is compiled by a grade level team at the end of year to give to the next team up (so K would make a list to give to 1). We put kids on the list that we want to be sure get intervention right off the bat. This also means a tier program and documentation can begin immediately. Each tier cycle is about 8 weeks. If we go through 2 cycles and goals aren't met then we start talking about something more formal like an IEP. The watchlist is meant to help.

Can’t you see how it would erode trust with parents if you put their child on a “watchlist” and don’t tell them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with trusting teachers and the administration about my child was that it meant DC missed out on two years of appropriate reading instruction. Those two years are also some of the most impactful with regard to reading. Apparently DC was put on a watch list in kindergarten, this was not revealed to us until mid-second grade when we were having our first IEP meeting. The secrecy involved in that and the amount of pushback we received that initial year and in subsequent years destroyed any trust I had in the teachers and administrators. “The gift of time” is most detrimental to the students that are in need of the most help.

Can you elaborate on what this "watchlist" is?

In my school (DCPS) the watchlist is compiled by a grade level team at the end of year to give to the next team up (so K would make a list to give to 1). We put kids on the list that we want to be sure get intervention right off the bat. This also means a tier program and documentation can begin immediately. Each tier cycle is about 8 weeks. If we go through 2 cycles and goals aren't met then we start talking about something more formal like an IEP. The watchlist is meant to help.

Can’t you see how it would erode trust with parents if you put their child on a “watchlist” and don’t tell them?

A kid would never have even been discussed for the watchlist if the parent's weren't already in the loop. There would have been emails, phone calls, conferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with trusting teachers and the administration about my child was that it meant DC missed out on two years of appropriate reading instruction. Those two years are also some of the most impactful with regard to reading. Apparently DC was put on a watch list in kindergarten, this was not revealed to us until mid-second grade when we were having our first IEP meeting. The secrecy involved in that and the amount of pushback we received that initial year and in subsequent years destroyed any trust I had in the teachers and administrators. “The gift of time” is most detrimental to the students that are in need of the most help.

Can you elaborate on what this "watchlist" is?

In my school (DCPS) the watchlist is compiled by a grade level team at the end of year to give to the next team up (so K would make a list to give to 1). We put kids on the list that we want to be sure get intervention right off the bat. This also means a tier program and documentation can begin immediately. Each tier cycle is about 8 weeks. If we go through 2 cycles and goals aren't met then we start talking about something more formal like an IEP. The watchlist is meant to help.

Can’t you see how it would erode trust with parents if you put their child on a “watchlist” and don’t tell them?

A kid would never have even been discussed for the watchlist if the parent's weren't already in the loop. There would have been emails, phone calls, conferences.

I wish that were true in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, glad you're back.

You still haven't responded to criticism of this part of your OP:

And your child on the spectrum is not only “a loner genius”, they’re autistic. And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim.

Do you really not see how statement like this are essentially designed to make parents angry and defensive? You are not qualified to diagnose a child with autism, and if you are speaking like this to parents with autistic children, do you really not understand that they are own their own difficult journey that you simply do not understand? And your phrasing here about kids who get picked on is absolutely unacceptable from a teacher. Absolutely, 100%, not acceptable. Parents with kids who are being picked on and bullied are ALWAYS working with their kids to figure out how to keep themselves from being a target. Do you have kids? Do you not understand how heartbreaking it is to have send your kid to school where another kid is making fun of them or tormenting them? If there was a magic thing you could tell your kid to keep it from happening, you would.

It's just so condescending. If a teacher said this to me about my kid who was being tormented, not only would I not "believe her", I'd ask that my kid be removed from her class. When I child is being consistently picked on in your classroom, the answer is for the adult in the room to intervene, and work with the kids to address these issues. I get that you don't have perfect control, but you have more than I do in that moment, and "sorry kiddo but you've got to stop making yourself a victim here" is NOT going to cut it. Address the problem.

Fortunately I've never had a teacher pull this with me -- we've always had good relationships built on trust and mutual respect. But what you wrote in your OP was not trusting or respectful. I think if you have enough poor relationships with parents to write something like this, the problem might be you.

Well folks I apologize for triggering so many parents with this post. Please know that I would never in a million years be so blunt in an actual conversation with a parent of a struggling student. I DO understand how heartbreaking it is, having been on the receiving end of such information twice. Please know, however, that there are many many parents out there who would rather deny that a problem exists and verbally attack the teacher for bringing it up in the most respectful, compassionate way. That was the audience for this post - parents who will leave their child, the teacher and sometimes the entire affected class hanging because they cannot believe that their child might need extra support. It is completely demoralizing for all involved. So, with those experiences under my belt along with the multiple chastisements posted in this thread from parents who DO want to support their struggling children, I will think twice about having these conversations in the future. You have cut me down to size, put me in my place, and schooled the teacher.

OP,
Thank you for your attempt here. I’m a teacher, but for the moment I’m going to speak from the perspective of a parent. I had a teacher who sat me down and gave me some raw, upsetting information about my own child. No other teacher had done that. I was defensive at first. I wanted to defend my child, her upbringing, and all I had already done to try to prepare her for school. I took the teacher’s comments as a criticism and, initially, I was mad at the teacher for exposing something I didn’t want to accept or deal with. Two years later, I have nothing but appreciation for that teacher. She took the time to really learn about my child and she cared enough to put herself in that uncomfortable position. I can’t imagine she relished having that conversation with me. What she said was a spark and I am now grateful for her insights.

I know you were speaking from experience and you weren’t speaking to ALL parents. I think the reason you got so much heat in response is because (A) we are all very defensive about our own children and (B) this is DCUM and our intentions/tone don’t always translate the way we want them to.

OP here - thank you, fellow teacher and fellow parent. I concur with all you said and how well you said it. My old pony, Trigger, is back in his stall and I will give myself a bit more time between a hard day and posting anything on a public forum. Your balanced assessment of WHY these conversations can be so difficult is spot on.

Honestly as a parent I thought your post was fine and I was surprised at all the comments. But I have mainly had positive interactions with teachers around social issues that have come up for my kid. Also, I'm the one who has brought them up.

One question I have though is this: "And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim" - this seems suspect to me. How do you teach this? At home it's so easy to say do x do y when so and so bothers you. I don't think it helps. This is an age old problem and I don't really see how we parents can actually help our victim kids. Seems like only the teacher can devise a solution in the moment. And unless it's super obvious bullying, they usually don't do anything in my experience.

The only way to teach someone to not be a victim in this context is to teach them to stand up for themselves, fight back and have self-respect. I don't see how schools can teach that or how parents can do that without information.

"Fight back" how? Be specific. Surely you're not suggesting physical fighting?

If they are being physically assaulted then yes. It's called self-defense and self-respect. What would you suggest as a response to physical assault? Remember that we are talking about kids that are being bullied. Should they accept it? If not, what should they do?

Good luck with that. Schools have zero tolerance policies for any kind of physical violence, even if it is self defense. The bullied child who hits back will end up getting detention or be suspended.

Yeah the PP sounds like a parent of a bully- they want the bullies kids to fight back to deflect from their own kid. They probably tell their kid that anyone who doesn’t fight back is “weak” and deserves to be bullied too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, glad you're back.

You still haven't responded to criticism of this part of your OP:

And your child on the spectrum is not only “a loner genius”, they’re autistic. And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim.

Do you really not see how statement like this are essentially designed to make parents angry and defensive? You are not qualified to diagnose a child with autism, and if you are speaking like this to parents with autistic children, do you really not understand that they are own their own difficult journey that you simply do not understand? And your phrasing here about kids who get picked on is absolutely unacceptable from a teacher. Absolutely, 100%, not acceptable. Parents with kids who are being picked on and bullied are ALWAYS working with their kids to figure out how to keep themselves from being a target. Do you have kids? Do you not understand how heartbreaking it is to have send your kid to school where another kid is making fun of them or tormenting them? If there was a magic thing you could tell your kid to keep it from happening, you would.

It's just so condescending. If a teacher said this to me about my kid who was being tormented, not only would I not "believe her", I'd ask that my kid be removed from her class. When I child is being consistently picked on in your classroom, the answer is for the adult in the room to intervene, and work with the kids to address these issues. I get that you don't have perfect control, but you have more than I do in that moment, and "sorry kiddo but you've got to stop making yourself a victim here" is NOT going to cut it. Address the problem.

Fortunately I've never had a teacher pull this with me -- we've always had good relationships built on trust and mutual respect. But what you wrote in your OP was not trusting or respectful. I think if you have enough poor relationships with parents to write something like this, the problem might be you.

Well folks I apologize for triggering so many parents with this post. Please know that I would never in a million years be so blunt in an actual conversation with a parent of a struggling student. I DO understand how heartbreaking it is, having been on the receiving end of such information twice. Please know, however, that there are many many parents out there who would rather deny that a problem exists and verbally attack the teacher for bringing it up in the most respectful, compassionate way. That was the audience for this post - parents who will leave their child, the teacher and sometimes the entire affected class hanging because they cannot believe that their child might need extra support. It is completely demoralizing for all involved. So, with those experiences under my belt along with the multiple chastisements posted in this thread from parents who DO want to support their struggling children, I will think twice about having these conversations in the future. You have cut me down to size, put me in my place, and schooled the teacher.

OP,
Thank you for your attempt here. I’m a teacher, but for the moment I’m going to speak from the perspective of a parent. I had a teacher who sat me down and gave me some raw, upsetting information about my own child. No other teacher had done that. I was defensive at first. I wanted to defend my child, her upbringing, and all I had already done to try to prepare her for school. I took the teacher’s comments as a criticism and, initially, I was mad at the teacher for exposing something I didn’t want to accept or deal with. Two years later, I have nothing but appreciation for that teacher. She took the time to really learn about my child and she cared enough to put herself in that uncomfortable position. I can’t imagine she relished having that conversation with me. What she said was a spark and I am now grateful for her insights.

I know you were speaking from experience and you weren’t speaking to ALL parents. I think the reason you got so much heat in response is because (A) we are all very defensive about our own children and (B) this is DCUM and our intentions/tone don’t always translate the way we want them to.

OP here - thank you, fellow teacher and fellow parent. I concur with all you said and how well you said it. My old pony, Trigger, is back in his stall and I will give myself a bit more time between a hard day and posting anything on a public forum. Your balanced assessment of WHY these conversations can be so difficult is spot on.

Honestly as a parent I thought your post was fine and I was surprised at all the comments. But I have mainly had positive interactions with teachers around social issues that have come up for my kid. Also, I'm the one who has brought them up.

One question I have though is this: "And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim" - this seems suspect to me. How do you teach this? At home it's so easy to say do x do y when so and so bothers you. I don't think it helps. This is an age old problem and I don't really see how we parents can actually help our victim kids. Seems like only the teacher can devise a solution in the moment. And unless it's super obvious bullying, they usually don't do anything in my experience.

The only way to teach someone to not be a victim in this context is to teach them to stand up for themselves, fight back and have self-respect. I don't see how schools can teach that or how parents can do that without information.

"Fight back" how? Be specific. Surely you're not suggesting physical fighting?

If they are being physically assaulted then yes. It's called self-defense and self-respect. What would you suggest as a response to physical assault? Remember that we are talking about kids that are being bullied. Should they accept it? If not, what should they do?

Good luck with that. Schools have zero tolerance policies for any kind of physical violence, even if it is self defense. The bullied child who hits back will end up getting detention or be suspended.

Yeah the PP sounds like a parent of a bully- they want the bullies kids to fight back to deflect from their own kid. They probably tell their kid that anyone who doesn’t fight back is “weak” and deserves to be bullied too.

Hahahahaha, you couldn't be further from the mark. That was just a particularly easy example to understand on the range of things kids need to be taught to not be a victim. There are things that schools cannot teach kids to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, glad you're back.

You still haven't responded to criticism of this part of your OP:

And your child on the spectrum is not only “a loner genius”, they’re autistic. And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim.

Do you really not see how statement like this are essentially designed to make parents angry and defensive? You are not qualified to diagnose a child with autism, and if you are speaking like this to parents with autistic children, do you really not understand that they are own their own difficult journey that you simply do not understand? And your phrasing here about kids who get picked on is absolutely unacceptable from a teacher. Absolutely, 100%, not acceptable. Parents with kids who are being picked on and bullied are ALWAYS working with their kids to figure out how to keep themselves from being a target. Do you have kids? Do you not understand how heartbreaking it is to have send your kid to school where another kid is making fun of them or tormenting them? If there was a magic thing you could tell your kid to keep it from happening, you would.

It's just so condescending. If a teacher said this to me about my kid who was being tormented, not only would I not "believe her", I'd ask that my kid be removed from her class. When I child is being consistently picked on in your classroom, the answer is for the adult in the room to intervene, and work with the kids to address these issues. I get that you don't have perfect control, but you have more than I do in that moment, and "sorry kiddo but you've got to stop making yourself a victim here" is NOT going to cut it. Address the problem.

Fortunately I've never had a teacher pull this with me -- we've always had good relationships built on trust and mutual respect. But what you wrote in your OP was not trusting or respectful. I think if you have enough poor relationships with parents to write something like this, the problem might be you.

Well folks I apologize for triggering so many parents with this post. Please know that I would never in a million years be so blunt in an actual conversation with a parent of a struggling student. I DO understand how heartbreaking it is, having been on the receiving end of such information twice. Please know, however, that there are many many parents out there who would rather deny that a problem exists and verbally attack the teacher for bringing it up in the most respectful, compassionate way. That was the audience for this post - parents who will leave their child, the teacher and sometimes the entire affected class hanging because they cannot believe that their child might need extra support. It is completely demoralizing for all involved. So, with those experiences under my belt along with the multiple chastisements posted in this thread from parents who DO want to support their struggling children, I will think twice about having these conversations in the future. You have cut me down to size, put me in my place, and schooled the teacher.

OP,
Thank you for your attempt here. I’m a teacher, but for the moment I’m going to speak from the perspective of a parent. I had a teacher who sat me down and gave me some raw, upsetting information about my own child. No other teacher had done that. I was defensive at first. I wanted to defend my child, her upbringing, and all I had already done to try to prepare her for school. I took the teacher’s comments as a criticism and, initially, I was mad at the teacher for exposing something I didn’t want to accept or deal with. Two years later, I have nothing but appreciation for that teacher. She took the time to really learn about my child and she cared enough to put herself in that uncomfortable position. I can’t imagine she relished having that conversation with me. What she said was a spark and I am now grateful for her insights.

I know you were speaking from experience and you weren’t speaking to ALL parents. I think the reason you got so much heat in response is because (A) we are all very defensive about our own children and (B) this is DCUM and our intentions/tone don’t always translate the way we want them to.

OP here - thank you, fellow teacher and fellow parent. I concur with all you said and how well you said it. My old pony, Trigger, is back in his stall and I will give myself a bit more time between a hard day and posting anything on a public forum. Your balanced assessment of WHY these conversations can be so difficult is spot on.

Honestly as a parent I thought your post was fine and I was surprised at all the comments. But I have mainly had positive interactions with teachers around social issues that have come up for my kid. Also, I'm the one who has brought them up.

One question I have though is this: "And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim" - this seems suspect to me. How do you teach this? At home it's so easy to say do x do y when so and so bothers you. I don't think it helps. This is an age old problem and I don't really see how we parents can actually help our victim kids. Seems like only the teacher can devise a solution in the moment. And unless it's super obvious bullying, they usually don't do anything in my experience.

The only way to teach someone to not be a victim in this context is to teach them to stand up for themselves, fight back and have self-respect. I don't see how schools can teach that or how parents can do that without information.

"Fight back" how? Be specific. Surely you're not suggesting physical fighting?

If they are being physically assaulted then yes. It's called self-defense and self-respect. What would you suggest as a response to physical assault? Remember that we are talking about kids that are being bullied. Should they accept it? If not, what should they do?

Good luck with that. Schools have zero tolerance policies for any kind of physical violence, even if it is self defense. The bullied child who hits back will end up getting detention or be suspended.

Nah, if the bullied kid isn't being suspended, then the kid who fights back won't be either.

If my kid is being physically abused, and other methods of intervention have been exhausted, I'm perfectly fine with my kid physically fighting back. I'm not worried about detention or suspension -- it either won't happen, or won't make any difference in their schooling. Hell, my school closed for over a year and said that was fine for kids' education. Why would we think a day or a week would mean anything?

[Anonymous]

^^edit "if the bully kid isn't being suspended"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with trusting teachers and the administration about my child was that it meant DC missed out on two years of appropriate reading instruction. Those two years are also some of the most impactful with regard to reading. Apparently DC was put on a watch list in kindergarten, this was not revealed to us until mid-second grade when we were having our first IEP meeting. The secrecy involved in that and the amount of pushback we received that initial year and in subsequent years destroyed any trust I had in the teachers and administrators. “The gift of time” is most detrimental to the students that are in need of the most help.

Can you elaborate on what this "watchlist" is?

x1000000

"The gift of time" - parents need to be aware that this is an enormous red flag.

Who is going to make parents aware of this? Why not speak plainly to them?

[Anonymous]

Also, no, schools don't have a "zero tolerance" policy for violence. Ok, maybe where you are. Here, we get to hear about how nothing ever ever happens to disruptive violent kids. They just get sent back to class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, glad you're back.

You still haven't responded to criticism of this part of your OP:

And your child on the spectrum is not only “a loner genius”, they’re autistic. And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim.

Do you really not see how statement like this are essentially designed to make parents angry and defensive? You are not qualified to diagnose a child with autism, and if you are speaking like this to parents with autistic children, do you really not understand that they are own their own difficult journey that you simply do not understand? And your phrasing here about kids who get picked on is absolutely unacceptable from a teacher. Absolutely, 100%, not acceptable. Parents with kids who are being picked on and bullied are ALWAYS working with their kids to figure out how to keep themselves from being a target. Do you have kids? Do you not understand how heartbreaking it is to have send your kid to school where another kid is making fun of them or tormenting them? If there was a magic thing you could tell your kid to keep it from happening, you would.

It's just so condescending. If a teacher said this to me about my kid who was being tormented, not only would I not "believe her", I'd ask that my kid be removed from her class. When I child is being consistently picked on in your classroom, the answer is for the adult in the room to intervene, and work with the kids to address these issues. I get that you don't have perfect control, but you have more than I do in that moment, and "sorry kiddo but you've got to stop making yourself a victim here" is NOT going to cut it. Address the problem.

Fortunately I've never had a teacher pull this with me -- we've always had good relationships built on trust and mutual respect. But what you wrote in your OP was not trusting or respectful. I think if you have enough poor relationships with parents to write something like this, the problem might be you.

Well folks I apologize for triggering so many parents with this post. Please know that I would never in a million years be so blunt in an actual conversation with a parent of a struggling student. I DO understand how heartbreaking it is, having been on the receiving end of such information twice. Please know, however, that there are many many parents out there who would rather deny that a problem exists and verbally attack the teacher for bringing it up in the most respectful, compassionate way. That was the audience for this post - parents who will leave their child, the teacher and sometimes the entire affected class hanging because they cannot believe that their child might need extra support. It is completely demoralizing for all involved. So, with those experiences under my belt along with the multiple chastisements posted in this thread from parents who DO want to support their struggling children, I will think twice about having these conversations in the future. You have cut me down to size, put me in my place, and schooled the teacher.

OP,
Thank you for your attempt here. I’m a teacher, but for the moment I’m going to speak from the perspective of a parent. I had a teacher who sat me down and gave me some raw, upsetting information about my own child. No other teacher had done that. I was defensive at first. I wanted to defend my child, her upbringing, and all I had already done to try to prepare her for school. I took the teacher’s comments as a criticism and, initially, I was mad at the teacher for exposing something I didn’t want to accept or deal with. Two years later, I have nothing but appreciation for that teacher. She took the time to really learn about my child and she cared enough to put herself in that uncomfortable position. I can’t imagine she relished having that conversation with me. What she said was a spark and I am now grateful for her insights.

I know you were speaking from experience and you weren’t speaking to ALL parents. I think the reason you got so much heat in response is because (A) we are all very defensive about our own children and (B) this is DCUM and our intentions/tone don’t always translate the way we want them to.

OP here - thank you, fellow teacher and fellow parent. I concur with all you said and how well you said it. My old pony, Trigger, is back in his stall and I will give myself a bit more time between a hard day and posting anything on a public forum. Your balanced assessment of WHY these conversations can be so difficult is spot on.

Honestly as a parent I thought your post was fine and I was surprised at all the comments. But I have mainly had positive interactions with teachers around social issues that have come up for my kid. Also, I'm the one who has brought them up.

One question I have though is this: "And your child who is getting picked on is not always “an innocent victim” they usually need to learn how to NOT be a victim" - this seems suspect to me. How do you teach this? At home it's so easy to say do x do y when so and so bothers you. I don't think it helps. This is an age old problem and I don't really see how we parents can actually help our victim kids. Seems like only the teacher can devise a solution in the moment. And unless it's super obvious bullying, they usually don't do anything in my experience.

The only way to teach someone to not be a victim in this context is to teach them to stand up for themselves, fight back and have self-respect. I don't see how schools can teach that or how parents can do that without information.

"Fight back" how? Be specific. Surely you're not suggesting physical fighting?

If they are being physically assaulted then yes. It's called self-defense and self-respect. What would you suggest as a response to physical assault? Remember that we are talking about kids that are being bullied. Should they accept it? If not, what should they do?

Good luck with that. Schools have zero tolerance policies for any kind of physical violence, even if it is self defense. The bullied child who hits back will end up getting detention or be suspended.

Yeah the PP sounds like a parent of a bully- they want the bullies kids to fight back to deflect from their own kid. They probably tell their kid that anyone who doesn’t fight back is “weak” and deserves to be bullied too.

Hahahahaha, you couldn't be further from the mark. That was just a particularly easy example to understand on the range of things kids need to be taught to not be a victim. There are things that schools cannot teach kids to do.

DP- ok, how specifically are you teaching your kids not to be a victim, without shaming them if, despite their best efforts, they are still bullied?