Hate having kids

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Also, to continue the metaphor. One would say you push the distaste of cleaning the toilet to the back of your mind in order to enjoy the clean bathroom the rest of the time. If you never cleaned the toilet seat, the bathroom would be disgusting. There is a trade off. It sounds like you find no joy in the clean bathroom here (if the clean bathroom is, 'relationship with your children'). If you did, I'd say focus on the positives because dwelling in this bitterness will do nothing to change your situation and only cause your life to be worse.

I have to pretend. I do that but I hate it. They’re literally are no positives. I posted because I’m hoping I will not feel this way when they are adults but I know I will continue to feel this way as long as they are living in my house.

Honestly you should go and see a therapist. It is not normal to dislike your entire life and be able to find no positives in it. Even if you have real reasonable reasons for being unhappy about how you got there. You have kids, that is your life, humans adapt and find the good in their situations. If you are unable to do that, I would believe you probably are depressed and could be helped by therapy and medication.

It is not your kid's fault or parenting generally that you are miserable. Misery like you are describing is a choice. I hate working in an office job but it is how I keep a roof over my head so I find the good and focus on that. Life is about finding the good. And an inability to find the good isn't a problem with life, it is a problem with you.

I’m not depressed; this is actually how I feel. Both of my grandmother‘s were exactly the same.

NP. You do not need to be depressed to get therapy. Therapy isn't some fix for brokenness but a tool to increase self awareness and processing which may in turn heal issues if there are any.

OP, even the way you respond to people in this chain is void of emotive expression. It makes me think there could be a lack of empathy in general. Does that resonate? Also, how did your grandmothers disliking parenting impact your own parents and your own experience as a child?

I think there is more going on here. To be fair I don't understand how you feel. I don't particularly enjoy much of parenting myself but it is a joy to get to know my child and bear witness to their evolution and growth. It is also joyful to observe how much joy she gives to her aunts, uncles, grandparents etc...

I'm not really sure what is going on here but kids also become adults one day. Saying you don't like kids is such a huge blanket statement like "I don't like men", "I don't like old people". It just seems peculiar. I believe that you don't like them but it could be good to understand for yourself, if you don't already, what exactly it is that you don't like about them and how you came to this conclusion.

I certainly don't like all kids, or people for that matter, but that's very different than saying "I don't like women period" or "I don't like kids period".

Anyway I wish you the best and some joy in your life too. I'm sorry you are in this position you disdain so much. I believe it can change for you, or I have hope.

I don’t lack empathy. I am actually over empathetic to my own detriment. What you bolded does not make sense to me…I understand how you and others might find joy in that—I simply do not. That does nothing for me. Also, I have never liked kids generally. I did not play with dolls or ever fantasize about getting married like other women seem to. I do not lack the capacity for love either…I have been in love twice. I do not like having kids. I do not find it “rewarding” or any such nonsense. It is time consuming and costly without any benefit…to me personally.

With all due respect, that is extremely abnormal. And it is foundational for most human relationships. You can extract a similar concept out to any other relationship. But generally, what human beings get out of life, a HUGE thing humans get out of life, is interacting with other humans and finding joy in those exchanges. By helping other people, by making another person happy, by feeling another person trying to make us happy. If you find that alien, then honestly you have a mental health condition that would, at the bare minimum, probably be beneficial for you to understand.

I really doubt you have super empathy, you seem INCREDIBLY detached and almost nothing you say has emotion tethered to it, just logistics. You literally equated caring for your children to cleaning a toilet seat. I think you think you understand what empathy and emotions are, but you actually do not. You don't understand what we're saying, because it doesn't match anything about your lived experience. But respectfully, you are the one who is atypical here, you honestly should see a psychiatrist, not just a therapist, and figure out what is going on. And of course it makes sense that you have matrilineal relatives that have similar issues, as things like this have strong genetic components.

I am over emphathetic. I have sacrificed what I wanted in life for the kids. I gave up wealth in a divorce to guarantee there was no lifestyle change for them and they would be financially set later. This was the right thing to do. But it did not serve me. It served them. I don't find having kids I did not want rewarding in any way. It's not abnormal. I did not want to have kids. I have those exchanges with other people that I literally do not have to sacrifice my body, my time, my money, my ambitions for. I am a logical person not an emotional one. If I was a man, no one would be saying something was wrong. There is nothing wrong. I did not want kids and knew that and that was stolen from me despite an agreement and I have to pay lifelong consequences for it. No one would find the outcome of that "rewarding"; they would find it obligatory to do the right thing and feel the need to pretend for the kids sake. This is an anonymous board so I can say how much it truly sucks.

You are incorrect I would be saying the same thing if you were a man. You are correct you are very logical. But even this, where you explain your sacrifices, isn't about empathy, it is about understanding what is right and wrong. That is not empathy, that is logic. Empathy is the ability to FEEL what another person feels, not the ability to look at a child and understand that one parent is better than the other and do the right thing. You barely sound like you feel your own emotions, and as I said earlier, I think you THINK you understand what empathy and emotions are, but you clearly do not. You sound frequently like something trying to masquerade as human, vs how the average person would feel in your situation. Depression frequently mutes emotions and empathy, it is why everyone keeps bringing it up, but if you have always been like this, it might be something different.

But seriously, you should see a doctor, the way you are experiencing the world is not normal.

I know what empathy is. I did my divorce in a nontraditional way because I was thinking about how my kids would FEEL afterward and made decisions based on that. That does not mean I like being a parent. You can be empathetic and put others' feelings first and still hate your own life because it got completely off track and can't be corrected.

1) the more you describe what you think empathy is, the more clear it is you do not understand it, you have again described how you think about your kids feel, how you evaluated it and did the 'right thing' but you don't say you felt agony thinking about your kid's agony, you don't say you felt sadness thinking about their sadness. No, you say you understood what was right and did it despite feeling bitterness and resentment. Again, I don't mean this critically really, just factually, you do not appear to fully grasp what emotions and empathy ARE, and I think it is preventing you from even understanding the advice being offered.

2) Hating your circumstances is one thing. Wallowing in them for a decade without finding a way to find joy in life is again, VERY abnormal. You need help.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Narcissism usually develops as a result of childhood trauma and is more likely when one of the parents, or both, are narcissistic or have narcissistic traits. The fact that you think your dad was one is reason enough to go to therapy to explore yourself. Ask me how I know... so yea... please go and get yourself help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP has posted many, many times. She is completely lacking in insight. Not quite sure what she’s hoping to get from these repeated threads. Just letting everyone know so they can stop wasting their time. OP, just give your kids to their dad already.

They are not comfortable with him. I am the preferred parent. He did 0 for the first 6 years of parenting. Literally ZERO.

That still would not solve the problem. I've already wasted 10 years into this nonsense and I can't fix the trajectory. Him having the kids only would not improve anything and in fact, make it worse.

I wanted to know if people could enjoy kids as adults if they did not like parenting. So far, no one really has that answer. That was the point of the post. I know my life sucks so I don't need more piling on. Be fortunate that you did not have circumstances take your life in a direction you absolutely did not want and then have to deal with the lifelong consequences. There is no "coping" or "therapy" that can fix that. It is what it is and I just have to deal with it.

[Anonymous]

The key word here is “forced.” Via rape and circumstances, you now have a life you didn’t want.

This will never be the life you want. It’s the life you have. You have dealt with your trauma by being very clear in your boundaries and needs in relation to your children. Unfortunately, that part is a bit on overdrive due to your trauma. You can have boundaries and a healthy sense of self without the sense of deadness and resentment and hatred you feel. I agree with other posters that you have stuffed down some feelings as a part of your trauma and probably will need help being in touch with your anger and, most likely, your sense of powerlessness, vulnerability, and shame. Right now you are covering that all up. You literally can’t go there. It is blocking your sense of connection with your children, as children bring so much vulnerability and powerlessness in their very being. Remember that they, too, did not ask to be born.

Good luck, OP. This is a tough path but I feel you have so much to offer and gain from your children.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, to continue the metaphor. One would say you push the distaste of cleaning the toilet to the back of your mind in order to enjoy the clean bathroom the rest of the time. If you never cleaned the toilet seat, the bathroom would be disgusting. There is a trade off. It sounds like you find no joy in the clean bathroom here (if the clean bathroom is, 'relationship with your children'). If you did, I'd say focus on the positives because dwelling in this bitterness will do nothing to change your situation and only cause your life to be worse.

I have to pretend. I do that but I hate it. They’re literally are no positives. I posted because I’m hoping I will not feel this way when they are adults but I know I will continue to feel this way as long as they are living in my house.

New poster. OP, please get therapy -- NOT to force yourself to find you don't have, but to help you come up with strategies for raising your kids in a way where they don't grow up feeling they are responsible for your unhappiness. Yes, their existence makes you unhappy but they did not choose to exist and they are at real risk of internalizing your hatred of having them in your life. I say that without judgement, I really do, OP. You can't un-feel what you feel but neither can they just vanish, so to me, this has to be about how you shield them from believing they did something bad or wrong that alienated you.

Not sure I'm phrasing that well, but I'm trying to say: While you absolutely can own your own honest feelings to yourself and your therapist, you do have a responsibility to ensure that your kids do not believe that they, or something they did, are at fault.

Even if you try your hardest to cover up the fact you do not want them in your life, they WILL know, even if it's just a gut feeling they have that you don't like them. They will pick up on it at some point if they haven't already. And it could leave them with permanent issues they will carry into their own relationships in the future. They do exist, they are yours to help raise, and even though you do not want that responsibility or enjoy any aspect of it at all, it's still on your plate. And I'm sorry, because you don't deserve t be so unhappy--but you are the adult here, and the one who can either damage them or power through raising them so they don't feel responsible for something that's about you and not about them.

I actually commend you for pretending for your kids' sakes. Now please get therapy so you can perhaps feel some level of optimism about how you raise them, even if you never can feel any positives or pleasure in that job. It's not a job one can drop entirely, short of leaving the family and cutting off contact and custody, OP, which would guarantee those feelings of "it's my fault" that they don't deserve to have instilled.

Therapy is a waste of time. It will not change my circumstances. I just wanted to know if it gets better when they are adults, but after reading this I really think it won’t be.

So that's really ALL you got out of my post?

Why do you think anything would "change your circumstances"? That ship has sailed. You can't un-make your children. Therapy won't make you love them or magically erase their existence. But it potentially can give you actions to take, ways to cope with each day, strategies to use day to day to deal with your kids and your own emotions, and a way to think about the present so you can look forward to a future and not sit around obsessing over your wasted 20 years to which you refer.

I see zero concern in your posts for the idea you are going to infect your kids with the belief they are responsible for mom's profound unhappiness. Zero concern. Do you not care that you're going to raise a new generation that will just repeat the hate, anger and regrets you endured with your own upbringing and marriage? You do not even have to love or like your children to at least wish them a better life than yours. Therapy can at least help you get through the remaininig years they're at home, without destroying them, and maybe with some modicum of hope for yourself. You can't undo your children. You cant un-feel your hate. But you can learn how to deal with and even let go of your fixation on all you feel you lost. You will not get there without help, but you keep posting here refusing help. It's out there. But you have to care about your children enough as human beings -- note I did not say "you have to love them" -- you have to care about them as future adults like you are now, so you can get some help getting THEM through their remaining years at home.

They already have a better life than mine. At my expense. They are fine.

"At my expense." Your resentment has rooted itself in you so deeply you no longer view them as indivdiuals capable of being hurt by you. If by "better life" you mean they have what they need physically and you won't push them into marriage with the wrong people, your definition is so very short-sighted. They will not be fine because you cannot be so good an actress that they don't know you blame them for your unhappiness. I think you don't understand, or do not care, that you are perpetuating the damage your family and ex did to you, by not getting yourself help to cope with your own upbringing and marriage traumas.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Let me understand...

Your dad is a narcissist.
Your grandmothers also hated having kids; presumably, one was the mother to your narcissistic father.

You have a family history of mental health issues. You need therapy.

I'm the PP who also wrote that if your kids were a product of rape, then it's understandable how you don't really love them. You said you only love them "sometimes", but you can't love someone only "sometimes". That's a completely narcissistic way of loving someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP has posted many, many times. She is completely lacking in insight. Not quite sure what she’s hoping to get from these repeated threads. Just letting everyone know so they can stop wasting their time. OP, just give your kids to their dad already.

They are not comfortable with him. I am the preferred parent. He did 0 for the first 6 years of parenting. Literally ZERO.

That still would not solve the problem. I've already wasted 10 years into this nonsense and I can't fix the trajectory. Him having the kids only would not improve anything and in fact, make it worse.

I wanted to know if people could enjoy kids as adults if they did not like parenting. So far, no one really has that answer. That was the point of the post. I know my life sucks so I don't need more piling on. Be fortunate that you did not have circumstances take your life in a direction you absolutely did not want and then have to deal with the lifelong consequences. There is no "coping" or "therapy" that can fix that. It is what it is and I just have to deal with it.

OK OP, I will give it to you straight. I do not think you will enjoy your kids as an adult because you sound absolutely miserable and joyless. Furthermore, you refuse to get yourself into therapy and constantly just point out why certain options suck.

NO ONE believes your life sucks but you. Sucky things have happened to you. That is NOT the same thing as your life sucking. You are conflating the two. There is a TON of therapy that can help you but you are absolutely wed to the idea that it won't.

Like you said your whole attitude is "it is what it is and I just have to deal with it". But you can choose to change your belief. You can choose to try on "it is what it is and I am going to do something about it now. I can't change the past but I choose to have faith in the present,"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Narcissism usually develops as a result of childhood trauma and is more likely when one of the parents, or both, are narcissistic or have narcissistic traits. The fact that you think your dad was one is reason enough to go to therapy to explore yourself. Ask me how I know... so yea... please go and get yourself help.

newsflash: I have been to therapy. I am not a narc. I have been told by more than one therapist I don't need to be there and I know what to do. It is not helpful. There is nothing a therapist says or does that I do not know already. I've been down that road. It's not useful or helpful. This is just my life. That is it. I will likely not enjoy kids any more as adults. No one really seems to have an answer about that and that was the point of the post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP has posted many, many times. She is completely lacking in insight. Not quite sure what she’s hoping to get from these repeated threads. Just letting everyone know so they can stop wasting their time. OP, just give your kids to their dad already.

They are not comfortable with him. I am the preferred parent. He did 0 for the first 6 years of parenting. Literally ZERO.

That still would not solve the problem. I've already wasted 10 years into this nonsense and I can't fix the trajectory. Him having the kids only would not improve anything and in fact, make it worse.

I wanted to know if people could enjoy kids as adults if they did not like parenting. So far, no one really has that answer. That was the point of the post. I know my life sucks so I don't need more piling on. Be fortunate that you did not have circumstances take your life in a direction you absolutely did not want and then have to deal with the lifelong consequences. There is no "coping" or "therapy" that can fix that. It is what it is and I just have to deal with it.

No one can answer your question because no one is you.

Once again: seek therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP has posted many, many times. She is completely lacking in insight. Not quite sure what she’s hoping to get from these repeated threads. Just letting everyone know so they can stop wasting their time. OP, just give your kids to their dad already.

They are not comfortable with him. I am the preferred parent. He did 0 for the first 6 years of parenting. Literally ZERO.

That still would not solve the problem. I've already wasted 10 years into this nonsense and I can't fix the trajectory. Him having the kids only would not improve anything and in fact, make it worse.

I wanted to know if people could enjoy kids as adults if they did not like parenting. So far, no one really has that answer. That was the point of the post. I know my life sucks so I don't need more piling on. Be fortunate that you did not have circumstances take your life in a direction you absolutely did not want and then have to deal with the lifelong consequences. There is no "coping" or "therapy" that can fix that. It is what it is and I just have to deal with it.

I actually responded to this on page 2, I think? Yes, people who do not enjoy kids/parenting can enjoy the adults those kids grow up to be. Whether that's possible for you and your kids will depend on a bunch of things an anonymous forum can't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP has posted many, many times. She is completely lacking in insight. Not quite sure what she’s hoping to get from these repeated threads. Just letting everyone know so they can stop wasting their time. OP, just give your kids to their dad already.

They are not comfortable with him. I am the preferred parent. He did 0 for the first 6 years of parenting. Literally ZERO.

That still would not solve the problem. I've already wasted 10 years into this nonsense and I can't fix the trajectory. Him having the kids only would not improve anything and in fact, make it worse.

I wanted to know if people could enjoy kids as adults if they did not like parenting. So far, no one really has that answer. That was the point of the post. I know my life sucks so I don't need more piling on. Be fortunate that you did not have circumstances take your life in a direction you absolutely did not want and then have to deal with the lifelong consequences. There is no "coping" or "therapy" that can fix that. It is what it is and I just have to deal with it.

No one has answered because there are virtually no people who get to year 10 of parenting that feel like you feel. There are people who don't like certain parts of parenting, there are people who feel resentment because they have kids but they still love their kids, but what YOU describe points to a person in a mental health crisis.

People are saying that for YOU, with these problems and your outlook on life, it will not get better, because life is not just about things magically getting better. You have to make them better.

It will get better when your kids get older and more independent and drift from you. And you can become a distant mother and not interact with grandchildren if you don't want.

I'm going to give you a different piece of advice OP, since you clearly aren't really interested in fixing yourself. Get your kids in therapy, and explain these thoughts you have to their therapists. So your children can figure out how to grapple with having a parent like you in a healthy way. I grew up in a very privileged home, my childhood was 'so much better than my parents' and yet, all the money in the world can't buy you emotionally stable parents. And unfortunately kids need that a lot more than they need whatever it is you're buying for them.

So no, your situation will not improve but again, it is because you seem committed to doing literally nothing to improve it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Let me understand...

Your dad is a narcissist.
Your grandmothers also hated having kids; presumably, one was the mother to your narcissistic father.

You have a family history of mental health issues. You need therapy.

I'm the PP who also wrote that if your kids were a product of rape, then it's understandable how you don't really love them. You said you only love them "sometimes", but you can't love someone only "sometimes". That's a completely narcissistic way of loving someone.

You can feel a rush of love sometimes and not other times. But no, I don't love them like I love a sibling. I love him no matter what. I used to say I love my kids no matter what but I don't think that is really the case. Sometimes I am too angry at the circumstances to feel that love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Let me understand...

Your dad is a narcissist.
Your grandmothers also hated having kids; presumably, one was the mother to your narcissistic father.

You have a family history of mental health issues. You need therapy.

I'm the PP who also wrote that if your kids were a product of rape, then it's understandable how you don't really love them. You said you only love them "sometimes", but you can't love someone only "sometimes". That's a completely narcissistic way of loving someone.

You can feel a rush of love sometimes and not other times. But no, I don't love them like I love a sibling. I love him no matter what. I used to say I love my kids no matter what but I don't think that is really the case. Sometimes I am too angry at the circumstances to feel that love.

Almost every parent would describe the reverse of what you describe (siblings vs kids). This is a narcissistic way of loving someone. You do need help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Narcissism usually develops as a result of childhood trauma and is more likely when one of the parents, or both, are narcissistic or have narcissistic traits. The fact that you think your dad was one is reason enough to go to therapy to explore yourself. Ask me how I know... so yea... please go and get yourself help.

newsflash: I have been to therapy. I am not a narc. I have been told by more than one therapist I don't need to be there and I know what to do. It is not helpful. There is nothing a therapist says or does that I do not know already. I've been down that road. It's not useful or helpful. This is just my life. That is it. I will likely not enjoy kids any more as adults. No one really seems to have an answer about that and that was the point of the post.

What is it that you have to do?

Newsflash: a ton of people have had bad sh1t happen to them that changed their trajectory: from deaths, to divorce, unwanted pregnancy (with or without rape), and people learn to deal with it or seek therapy to help deal with it.

Your attitude is deafetist at best, and miserable at worst.

You won't enjoy your adult kids because you are a miserable person. You won't care if your kids don't visit you, call you on your bday, xmas, spend Thanksgiving with you. Is that what you want to hear? Or are you expecting your kids to be more interesting when they become adults, and only then can you really feel some kind of connection to them? I think this is what Trump was like as a parent. He had zero to do with his kids until they turned 18. And we all know Trump is a narcissist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I’d encourage you to talk to a therapist just to come up with strategies. Our US system of child rearing doesn’t help. In many other cultures, having multiple households and/or generations living together helps alleviate the stress. Many of my cousins loved basically nannying their nieces and nephews. We are so nuclear-family oriented that there can be drawbacks (obviously varies based on individuals and the family dynamics). Wealthy people have the resources for endless sitters, boarding schools, etc. Thats just a different reality.

Parenting can be a slog sometimes but hopefully you love your children and can hold on to the positives.

What positives? I really feel like there literally are none.

Do you love your children?

[b]Sometimes. Not worth it.

I'm getting the sense from your responses that you view love as transactional. But most people would say that relationships are transformational . . . the act of loving makes us happier (because creating joy in others creates joy in ourselves -- we are all connected). It's not just about receiving love.

It sounds like the part of you capable of caring for others for their own sake was never developed or hidden away to protect yourself in childhood.

DP.. I figured out what OP's problem is... OP is a narcissist.

How can you only love your kids "sometimes", and think they are not worth that love?

It means you only love them when it's probably easy to love them, and even that moment is not worth having kids.

You don't really love them, which is obviously incredibly sad.

Your problem is that you are a narcissist. It's all about *you*.

You are correct that you should never have had any children. Narcissists really shouldn't. But, it's too late now, and I would suggest you get therapy for your narcissim. I 100% think that your kids will need therapy in the future for having a narcissistic parent.

And I'm a PP who stated that I don't really enjoy all aspects of parenting, and never thought about having kids myself. I firmly believe women can be happy without kids, but OP's issue is that she is a narcissist, not that she doesn't like kids. OP may even be anti-social. I know several women who don't like kids, but love theirs unconditionally, including myself. But, narcissists cannot love anyone but themselves, and even the love they *sometimes* have is conditional, and as a PP noted, transactional.

I don't think OP or her grandmothers were depressed. I think they had a mental condition.

I am not a narcissist. My dad is. You have no idea.

I don't like kids and have said that. I'm not antisocial and I've been in love. I don't like large groups but I like close relationships. I know far more about narcs than you.

Let me understand...

Your dad is a narcissist.
Your grandmothers also hated having kids; presumably, one was the mother to your narcissistic father.

You have a family history of mental health issues. You need therapy.

I'm the PP who also wrote that if your kids were a product of rape, then it's understandable how you don't really love them. You said you only love them "sometimes", but you can't love someone only "sometimes". That's a completely narcissistic way of loving someone.

You can feel a rush of love sometimes and not other times. But no, I don't love them like I love a sibling. I love him no matter what. I used to say I love my kids no matter what but I don't think that is really the case. Sometimes I am too angry at the circumstances to feel that love.

You are basically saying the things that happened to me get in the way of me feeling loving emotions towards my kids.

This is literally what everyone here is trying to tell you - that you need to go to therapy to process these circumstances so they STOP getting in the way of your relationship with your kids.

Clearly there is still stuff to be worked through in therapy because like you said you are too angry at the circumstances to feel love.

Emotions are stronger and more complicated than logic. It is a reality and sometimes it sucks but once we work through it and are free from it it's worth it.