Oldest son has a lot of animosity towards middle son

[Anonymous]

Not normal for the 16 year old to be so bothered ( your word was rage) by his brother talking at the dinner table. Do you and your spouse each have alone time with each of your kids? Your oldest should be able to verbalize what the problem is. Annoying and nerdy isn’t a good reason. Something is not right.

[Anonymous]

I can tell you the damage to the relationship is already done. You have allowed it to go one for too long. Acting now may allow things to be repaired enough so they can have a relationship as adults, but to do that you must admit that you have a serious problem with your 16 year old.

This is so beyond the stage of,"have special dates with mommy and daddy".

Rage towars a sibling, bullyinh a sibling is not normal. It really doesn't better if the yonger brothers give it right back, somethings shouldn't be allowed within a family. Mocking someone for their apperance and personality are two such things.

Your sons behavior is abusive. Full stop. Even if it seems your younger son is okay with it he isn't.

You need professional help, and you need to get a now. Therapy and coaching for you and DH and for all the boys.

I wish my parents had done this with my oldest sister, really all of us. They are paying for it now because her abusive behavior is now directed to them.

[Anonymous]

OP, based on the wording of your post it seems you think you are doing everything possible to mitigate the situation. But I would guess that there is a dynamic that has been set in place that the 16yo feels that the 14yo was initially loved more (babies need so much attention and a 2yo certainly is not going to understand that) and he felt pushed aside.

FWIW, my father and his brother have this dynamic. It astounds me that even to this day they avoid each other. Childhood playing out into perpetuity. I would also guess that my dad wasn't "easy" and then when younger brother came along their mother, one, knew how to parent a little more, and two, second son was in general easier, more laid back. Until the day my grandmother died it was clear she was much easier around my uncle.

I also believe that even if a parent is trying to be fair, the kids can see when it's just easier with one child over another. And that brews resentment in the non-easy kid.

Is there something that you could do with older son so he can have some quality one-on-one time? Maybe if you're doing something that isn't a sit down, rather something that he can focus on in front of you both, and you both doing it, that he can relax enough to talk. Hard during a pandemic, but maybe something.

[Anonymous]

Maybe your oldest son is just a bad seed. Perhaps his personality is such that he will be perpetually jealous, irritated and nasty to others.

It's hard to think about but the fact of the matter is the world is filled with @ssholes. They all started out as someone's kid. Parents aren't always to blame either.

My sibling dynamic (family of 3) was much like what you describe. My oldest sibling acted this way and turned out to be a nasty person none of us in the family trust, nor care to be around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe your oldest son is just a bad seed. Perhaps his personality is such that he will be perpetually jealous, irritated and nasty to others.

It's hard to think about but the fact of the matter is the world is filled with @ssholes. They all started out as someone's kid. Parents aren't always to blame either.

My sibling dynamic (family of 3) was much like what you describe. My oldest sibling acted this way and turned out to be a nasty person none of us in the family trust, nor care to be around.

^ BTW, my nasty sibling got plenty of one-on-one time. In fact, I think it was too much attention that turned them into a self-absorbed jerk.

[Anonymous]

16 year old can feel however he wants. He needs to behave respectfully. You need to ensure he does so.

Send 16 year old off to school as soon as circumstances allow. Your younger child deserves not to live with someone who hates him.

Therapy might help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My family had similar dynamics as in younger two siblings getting along well, oldest neutral to the youngest, but I was like your oldest towards the middle. NOw that I am away from all of them physically, I can now understand the part of the reasons why I’ve acted the way it was came from mother’s constant criticism and denial about anything I did. It was so hurtful. Maybe there was a reason for mom to be so hard on me, but I was very much done with mother by age 16. BY then. I’ve grown not to trust her (I loved dad but if he intervened between me and sibling, mom got upset with dad). I probably needed her attention and care when I was little but not when I was at 16. Why would I listen to someone I don’t trust?

With COVID, it gave all of us a legit reason not to see each other. So, no communication what’s so ever between me and the rest of family now. The siblings and mom are fully engaged with each other but I am excluded intentionally or unintentionally from them. I think it is true about what a poster above says, when your oldest leaves home, he will likely distance himself from OP and the siblings.

What I would have liked from my parents back then? Well, first stop criticizing me, for once be positive and supportive for me (dad always, mom never), stop negative campaigns on me in front of siblings/extended family/mutual friends, be fair in how you treat siblings because mom did not treat them like she treated me. I grew up thinking “why always me, me , me” (I take that maybe I was a difficult child, that difficult child was the first born and mom being a young inexperienced mother, she needed to act the way she did).

Now, it doesn’t matter because I learnt a hard lesson over the winter holiday just before COVID, how mom and the siblings are viewing me in a extreme negative way. I don’t have any recourse with them, but OP and oldest son may be able to salvage and renew a relationship. Good luck.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings. Maybe you should seek therapy because, perhaps you are doing something or behaving in a way that contributed to the existence of these problems? Good luck to you too, sincerely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sibling and I were like this and are parents were like you and didn't care. You need to stand up and protect the younger boys and set a good example. You both also need to spend more 1-1 time with each child, especially the older one as he's clearly not getting his needs met.

I am not sure where you get we don't care. We care very much. That is why I am posting. We have numerous conversations about this with each other and him when warranted. Also 16yo wants to be with his friends more than anything, not us. His "needs" are that he wants his brothers not to talk to him or even be in earshot.

NP. Well it's hard to think someone cares when they're not doing something. Like presumably you care about your car, and if you looked out your window and someone was smashing it up with a sledgehammer, I suspect you wouldn't shrug your shoulders and "stay out of it" by focusing on what's on TV.

So basically, if you care about something, you'll step in to protect it, period. And if that's how complete strangers feel, imagine how your son must feel.

[Anonymous]

My older brother HATED MY GUTS.

Did it hurt, yes. But in hindsight, now that we are 50ish...

I realize my older brother had anxiety and depression... in and out of rehab even though he makes $400K/year as a lawyer.

He has apologized profusely to me over the years and then will say, why didn't mom and dad ever do anything about it. Why didn't they notice I was in pain.

Your 16 yo needs therapy.

[Anonymous]

I am thinking therapy is in order. Not just because of his brothers but his lack of empathy in general. He has a good relationship with us, his parents. He tells me a lot. He asks us for advice. It’s a better relationship than I had with my parents at a teen. I’ve made sure of that. He just wants to be in control of everything. His brothers trigger some insecurity in him, I think, because they are not as intense and generally more fun loving.

I’ve considered therapy for him off and on over the years for diff reasons mainly having to do with signs of narcissism. It’s probably time to do that before he’s 18. But he will resist hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am thinking therapy is in order. Not just because of his brothers but his lack of empathy in general. He has a good relationship with us, his parents. He tells me a lot. He asks us for advice. It’s a better relationship than I had with my parents at a teen. I’ve made sure of that. He just wants to be in control of everything. His brothers trigger some insecurity in him, I think, because they are not as intense and generally more fun loving.

I’ve considered therapy for him off and on over the years for diff reasons mainly having to do with signs of narcissism. It’s probably time to do that before he’s 18. But he will resist hard.

6

New poster. Came to second the many, many posts about therapy and saw this from you, OP. You are right -- if you do not move very quickly to get therapy for your oldest, the two years before he's legally an adult will slip away and you will NOT be able to make him attend therapy. Then he'll be gone to college or whatever he does after HS, and the opportunity is gone. I know there's a pandemic on but you need to find therapy for him, and possibly additional family therapy for him plus you and dad, ASAP. OP, look hard for in-person therapy if you can find it and feel it's safe re: covid. Your son likely is on screens a LOT, and another screen appointment will surely mean he checks out mentally and gets nothing out of it.

OP, I would do a new thread here seeking recommendations for therapists who are very experienced with teens his age and with sibling dynamics issues as well as control issues. I think you are perceptive about the idea your oldest might feel he can't control things around him; that is often a sign of anxiety.

Even before that, look today at the list of therapists your health insurance covers and start making calls today to see who is taking new patients, is experienced with teens, and is doing appropriately safe in-person therapy. Don't wait. It can take a LONG time to get any therapist, to get a first appointment, and then you might still have to try more than one therapist before one "clicks" with your son enough for him to open up.

Ask your son's pediatrician for recommendations as well. Again -- put in the initial call to the pediatrician now. This is a job to start today, not in a week. It really can take time to find a therapist.

You note that he will resist hard. You and your DH must present a united front that this is something that will happen, not a debate or negotation, but not a yelling match either. I would try at least for now to ensure his brothers do not know this is being arranged. You and DH really could use counseling yourselves to help you know how better to deal with the fraternal strife, and to ensure you don't -- without meaning to -- encourage the 14-year-old to "stand up for himself" in ways that worsen the dynamic and make your 14-year-old sarcastic and snarky with others besides his brother.

Please update us. You are RIGHT that this situation is not merely "boys will be boys" or "brothers always fight" and right that it indicates something more is needed beyond you and dad. Is DH on board with therapy? If he's not --that is your first battle, because if both of you are not totally consistent about it, your son will pick up on that and use it to resist even harder. Remember: At 18, you can no longer make him do anything, much less get any therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am thinking therapy is in order. Not just because of his brothers but his lack of empathy in general. He has a good relationship with us, his parents. He tells me a lot. He asks us for advice. It’s a better relationship than I had with my parents at a teen. I’ve made sure of that. He just wants to be in control of everything. His brothers trigger some insecurity in him, I think, because they are not as intense and generally more fun loving.

I’ve considered therapy for him off and on over the years for diff reasons mainly having to do with signs of narcissism. It’s probably time to do that before he’s 18. But he will resist hard.

Okay but also you should be doing it for the brothers' sake as well. Because they matter, very much, and you as the parent should realize that. And you should be willing to do the work and take whatever heat you have to take to make them have a safe home, a safe place to land, and to be able to build up their sense of self and confidence at home. And by not standing up for them, you're not doing any of that. And I hate to be blunt, but IMO you're failing at one of the fundamentals of being a parent. And you need to fix it, like- ASAP.

[Anonymous]

OP, you don’t sound like you care very much for your middle son.

[Anonymous]

Anxiety and depression can manifest as irritability and aggression.

Google misophonia.

[Anonymous]

I realize that I misrepresented the situation some in terms of how much we intervene. We absolutely do when warranted. We do not intervene when, for example, he gets upset with his brothers for opening his door without knocking. Or when they are discussing sports or school or something and ds is rude. When he starts picking on them personally for no reason we separate immediately. There have been times when I’ve intervened and his brothers have told me to chill out. I’m still trying to learn how boys and brothers work.