How much secrets/lying is tolerable in a relationship?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not the strip club that’s the problem. It’s that he feels the need to lie to you. It puts you in a Mother-teenage son dynamic. He has a dirty little secret and he doesn’t want to get in trouble with Mommy.

My friend had a DH who would lie about stupid stuff. (did you take out the trash, as they are going to bed, he says YES, only to discover that they missed trash Day because he didn’t take out the trash. Stupid because she’d soon discover he hadn’t done it. This is just one example of the many many little lies he’d tell) And because they were stupid, she let them go.

Turns out it was a sign about the dynamic they had, that she didn’t even realize. She thought they were partnter/teammates. He saw her as a parental figure that was always trying to punish him (she wasn’t). So the little lies turned into big lies. Which turned into cheating and leaving her and the kids.

OP here. This is very on point; our former therapist talked about this dynamic. Any idea how to break out of this when DH is so resistant to telling the truth? I have encouraged him again and again to tell me the truth and that I won't get angry whatever it is, even suggesting he go to a strip club next time they go out to prove my point that the lie is worse than the action. It hasn't helped. I definitely feel like I've been labeled as the parent even though I don't want to be one.

1) how did he react when the therapist mentioned this?

2) how did the therapist tell you to deal with it?

My gut says that there’s nothing you can do unless he understands that this dynamic is going on and wants to change it. There is something he is getting (or trying to heal) from putting you in the MOMMY role. You can’t change that until he decides he wants a partner not a parent.

[Anonymous]

In answer to your title question.... lying, almost none. Secrets from before marriage? Might be okay. Secrets during marriage? Almost none.

You need to understand the WHY of the lie. It doesn't seem to be that he thinks you'll be mad since you've told him you would not. Is he a compulsive liar? Does he not respect you? Would you blab to the other wives? Is something worse going on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He sounds incredibly immature. Did you marry young? Like, teens/early twenties?

Nope. We married in our mid-30s. He is immature, our old therapist said so as well. He is socially awkward and was 'uncool' until he became successful professionally in his early 30s, he is in his early 40s now. I kind of feel that he is basically living the youth he never had as a cool person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He sounds incredibly immature. Did you marry young? Like, teens/early twenties?

Nope. We married in our mid-30s. He is immature, our old therapist said so as well. He is socially awkward and was 'uncool' until he became successful professionally in his early 30s, he is in his early 40s now. I kind of feel that he is basically living the youth he never had as a cool person.

Similar situation w/my dh except the professional success was more early 40s and now he's in his late 40s and basically a nerdy teenager who thinks he's cool. He has always lied about stupid things that didn't matter. I had low self-esteem and let it go. Then he [pursued someone? had an EA? had an affair?] - who knows and whatever it was it seems it did not end well and now I'm just done. I'm done with him and I'm done with any lie of any sort. If you don't have kids let him go. You can do so much better.

[Anonymous]

This is not ok. You have explained to him that dishonesty bothers you, that you won’t get upset if he went to a strip club, you’ve been to therapy, and yet he lies anyway, and hangs out with other men who regularly lie to their wives.

It sounds like he just does not have the baseline belief that he should be honest with you. Maybe he’s a compulsive liar or maybe he just lies when he thinks it will be better for him in the short term than telling the truth.

Either way, you have no way of knowing if he’s lying about bigger things too, and no reason to think he is being honest and open with you more generally. I would not stay in a relationship with someone like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In answer to your title question.... lying, almost none. Secrets from before marriage? Might be okay. Secrets during marriage? Almost none.

You need to understand the WHY of the lie. It doesn't seem to be that he thinks you'll be mad since you've told him you would not. Is he a compulsive liar? Does he not respect you? Would you blab to the other wives? Is something worse going on?

He knows I won't tell the other wives. The secrets/lies are inherently disrespectful, aren't they?

I don't know what qualifies as a compulsive liar, but he is dishonest in other ways. He is very big about appearances and acts differently in public vs. private. He regularly expresses opinions he doesn't hold, but knows the listener wants to hear. Like sounding conservative to Republican friends, liberal to his Democrat friends, very machismo with my brother and the opposite with my parents. He is most real and honest with me, but still holds back. He feels very strongly, to an extent that is not considered 'normal', about privacy and has a high embarrassment level. I think this is the WHY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He sounds incredibly immature. Did you marry young? Like, teens/early twenties?

Nope. We married in our mid-30s. He is immature, our old therapist said so as well. He is socially awkward and was 'uncool' until he became successful professionally in his early 30s, he is in his early 40s now. I kind of feel that he is basically living the youth he never had as a cool person.

Similar situation w/my dh except the professional success was more early 40s and now he's in his late 40s and basically a nerdy teenager who thinks he's cool. He has always lied about stupid things that didn't matter. I had low self-esteem and let it go. Then he [pursued someone? had an EA? had an affair?] - who knows and whatever it was it seems it did not end well and now I'm just done. I'm done with him and I'm done with any lie of any sort. If you don't have kids let him go. You can do so much better.

Ugh, this does not give me hope. This sounds just like my DH. We have one kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not ok. You have explained to him that dishonesty bothers you, that you won’t get upset if he went to a strip club, you’ve been to therapy, and yet he lies anyway, and hangs out with other men who regularly lie to their wives.

It sounds like he just does not have the baseline belief that he should be honest with you. Maybe he’s a compulsive liar or maybe he just lies when he thinks it will be better for him in the short term than telling the truth.

Either way, you have no way of knowing if he’s lying about bigger things too, and no reason to think he is being honest and open with you more generally. I would not stay in a relationship with someone like this.

I think he hasn't lied about anything bigger... so far. How would I know? Basically, his history of secret-keeping and lies has made me more paranoid & vigilant and I doublecheck things he tells me. But that's not to say that his lies won't get bigger.

[Anonymous]

1) how did he react when the therapist mentioned this? It backfired. He automatically blamed me for the Mother-Child dynamic although it's shared responsibility.

2) how did the therapist tell you to deal with it? Aside from giving us tools to communicate better, she told me in an individual session that DH is immature and it's up to me to decide whether to live with it or not.

My gut says that there’s nothing you can do unless he understands that this dynamic is going on and wants to change it. There is something he is getting (or trying to heal) from putting you in the MOMMY role. You can’t change that until he decides he wants a partner not a parent.

[Anonymous]

I'm curious what culture regularly entertains clients at strip clubs. Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
1) how did he react when the therapist mentioned this? It backfired. He automatically blamed me for the Mother-Child dynamic although it's shared responsibility.

2) how did the therapist tell you to deal with it? Aside from giving us tools to communicate better, she told me in an individual session that DH is immature and it's up to me to decide whether to live with it or not.

My gut says that there’s nothing you can do unless he understands that this dynamic is going on and wants to change it. There is something he is getting (or trying to heal) from putting you in the MOMMY role. You can’t change that until he decides he wants a partner not a parent.

OP, marriage is work. But this is way beyond the call of duty. You don’t have children, correct? Move on. This is not worth it. Who wants to be married to a man-child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He sounds incredibly immature. Did you marry young? Like, teens/early twenties?

Nope. We married in our mid-30s. He is immature, our old therapist said so as well. He is socially awkward and was 'uncool' until he became successful professionally in his early 30s, he is in his early 40s now. I kind of feel that he is basically living the youth he never had as a cool person.

Similar situation w/my dh except the professional success was more early 40s and now he's in his late 40s and basically a nerdy teenager who thinks he's cool. He has always lied about stupid things that didn't matter. I had low self-esteem and let it go. Then he [pursued someone? had an EA? had an affair?] - who knows and whatever it was it seems it did not end well and now I'm just done. I'm done with him and I'm done with any lie of any sort. If you don't have kids let him go. You can do so much better.

I’m also in a similar boat and heading down this path with my DH. As my friend a divorce lawyer told me, this can either go one of two ways. Time will tell. Give it another week, give him a chance to tell you, get busy, then mention it when it’s a good time and ask him about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As to his friends, I DON'T think it's okay for his friends to be gambling and using drugs and I agree that they tacitly encourage each other to lie, but I can't keep him from them, it's a losing battle.

As to whether he went to a SC last week, I haven't asked him about it yet. The circumstantial evidence is there, though; he paid for dinner with a credit card, then withdrew a large sum of $$ down the street from their "regular" strip club. If they had just gone to a bar or club, he would've used his card as a couple of the friends he was with are potential clients and the expense would be tax deductible. Whether it was technically a SC or something else doesn't even really matter, the huge cash withdrawal is damning.

Don't know how to break this to you but he's buying sex. Stupid pays for titties and dances, he is paying for sex. And most likely butt sex. Men want freak and pay for that freak. He may give you a disease.

I know you don't want to believe it but he is. He's also doing what you say the others are doing. A man that truly loves and respects his wife does not go looking elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As to his friends, I DON'T think it's okay for his friends to be gambling and using drugs and I agree that they tacitly encourage each other to lie, but I can't keep him from them, it's a losing battle.

As to whether he went to a SC last week, I haven't asked him about it yet. The circumstantial evidence is there, though; he paid for dinner with a credit card, then withdrew a large sum of $$ down the street from their "regular" strip club. If they had just gone to a bar or club, he would've used his card as a couple of the friends he was with are potential clients and the expense would be tax deductible. Whether it was technically a SC or something else doesn't even really matter, the huge cash withdrawal is damning.

Don't know how to break this to you but he's buying sex. Stupid pays for titties and dances, he is paying for sex. And most likely butt sex. Men want freak and pay for that freak. He may give you a disease.

I know you don't want to believe it but he is. He's also doing what you say the others are doing. A man that truly loves and respects his wife does not go looking elsewhere.

I can't be 100% sure, but I doubt it. It just doesn't fit with the circumstances I know of. And whenever I've caught him in a lie, there's never ever been a whiff of adultery involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what culture regularly entertains clients at strip clubs. Yuck.

East Asian cultures. And they're not exactly strip clubs, but that's the closest American equivalent.