I left my toxic marriage- YOU CAN TOO!

[Anonymous]

This is so true OP. So true!!

I get so frustrated when I see vents and stories on here about people who complain and whine how miserable and unhappy they are in their marriages. They claim they are trapped and cannot leave due to the kids or finances or whatever.

Then they say they don't want advice, they just need to vent. Or some even go so far as to ask for advice!! WTF??!!

If I am in a toxic marriage, am being treated like crap every day of my life and am waking up miserable and each day is pure agony, I don't care if I have to sleep in a tent in my Grandma's front yard, I am gone. No man is ever going to take away my pride and dignity and most important, my joy of life.

Like in the Tom Hanks movie "Philadelphia," he says, "Every problem has a solution..." and he was right.

People need to stop making excuses.

If you are in an unhappy marriage and do not leave, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

We do not live in a country that is run by a Dictator, it is a Democratic country where everyone enjoys the freedom of choice.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad you've moved forward, OP. It took a lot of strength and courage. I am very interested to hear how your daughter does.

I'm feeling stuck in a similar situation, same dx, because I fear for what my kids would have to deal with when in their father's custody, without me there to look out for them. They'd be spending time with him and his family, who have multiple issues with boundaries and BPD. I don't want to throw them to the wolves. I also think they'd feel abandoned by me.

He's now in therapy and working very hard, and is aware of his issues. He's actually making changes and working on the core damage, but it's daunting.

The kids are old enough that I've been able to talk to them about their father's mental illnesses, and as you've said, to let them know it's okay to love him, while trying to teach them it's not the norm and not acceptable for someone to act as he does.

It sounds like you're doing the right things with your talks with your daughter, and having a therapist in place for her. Stay strong.

[Anonymous]

Yay! So glad you did this, OP and are doing so well. Bravo!

[Anonymous]

Congratulations, OP! You and your daughter will be better off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad you've moved forward, OP. It took a lot of strength and courage. I am very interested to hear how your daughter does.

I'm feeling stuck in a similar situation, same dx, because I fear for what my kids would have to deal with when in their father's custody, without me there to look out for them. They'd be spending time with him and his family, who have multiple issues with boundaries and BPD. I don't want to throw them to the wolves. I also think they'd feel abandoned by me.

He's now in therapy and working very hard, and is aware of his issues. He's actually making changes and working on the core damage, but it's daunting.

The kids are old enough that I've been able to talk to them about their father's mental illnesses, and as you've said, to let them know it's okay to love him, while trying to teach them it's not the norm and not acceptable for someone to act as he does.

It sounds like you're doing the right things with your talks with your daughter, and having a therapist in place for her. Stay strong.

OP here. I hear you. I had the same reservation for the same reasons, and also my husband was hitting the weed REALLY hard and would not quit. I felt there was no real good solution either way. The tipping point was an accumulation of my realizations, things he said and did, and then acting out in front of our daughter. I dont know what his awareness of his issues is. It does not appears to be there, but apparently he is seeing his shrink.

As you are aware, BPD is really not a reparable condition, but perhaps if your husband has enough good will left in him to work out some issues, he could become more stable and you could perhaps negotiate a separation on better terms. I found this book called "Hard to Love" about male borderline personality disorder. Its written MBPD's and their partners who are trying to work it out.

Also there is a forum I found called "out of the fog" based on a book all about personality disorders from the vantage point of families and loved one's of PD's. THere is a subforum just for people trying to stick it out, and another one for people like me who have decided its time to quit. Its SUPER supportive and I would highly recommend it.

Im so sorry to hear about your situation. There are no good answers, really. I can only advise to make sure you seek help for YOU because you want to make sure you dont get bound into something bad just because he is appearing to work on it, or even actually IS working on it. Ive noticed on the forums that BPD's expect ALOT of forgiveness. Its alot to expect of yourself to be willing to hang in there under these conditions. Make sure you dont lose your own core here. Life does not need to be dictated entirely by how BPD he is or how aware he is. http://outofthefog.net/forum/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is so true OP. So true!!

I get so frustrated when I see vents and stories on here about people who complain and whine how miserable and unhappy they are in their marriages. They claim they are trapped and cannot leave due to the kids or finances or whatever.

Then they say they don't want advice, they just need to vent. Or some even go so far as to ask for advice!! WTF??!!

If I am in a toxic marriage, am being treated like crap every day of my life and am waking up miserable and each day is pure agony, I don't care if I have to sleep in a tent in my Grandma's front yard, I am gone. No man is ever going to take away my pride and dignity and most important, my joy of life.

Like in the Tom Hanks movie "Philadelphia," he says, "Every problem has a solution..." and he was right.

People need to stop making excuses.

If you are in an unhappy marriage and do not leave, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

We do not live in a country that is run by a Dictator, it is a Democratic country where everyone enjoys the freedom of choice.

OP here. I appreciate the support. I encourage you to consider the shame aspect. When one is in this kind of situation, even if you do not believe you deserve it, there is a weird sense of shame that goes with it. People come here because its relatively safe to vent. Telling people around me what was happening was the game changer. It took more courage to TELL people than it did to leave! Also, telling people OTHER than professionals was key. The marriage counselor missed so much. They will encourage you to stick it out past the point of absurdity, and they can be manipulated too.

Im just saying that people who appear to be making excuses are actually processing ALOT of information outside of what they are posting about. There are many mixed feelings when it comes to dealing with someone with a mental illness or condition. And when kids are involved you have even MORE of that. So I would caution against blaming a person for remaining in an unhappy marriage- one has to get past the shame, past the fog and decide where the line in the sand is. People who come here need our support. I know this list helped me alot! And that includes the tough love posts!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BRAVO, OP, You are very strong and brave.

I did it too. My ex is not well either. My life is not perfect, but it is a million times better than it was when I was married, and I am so thankful for a second chance at happiness.

My ex won some time with our children - including some overnights. He is on his best behavior with them generally, after messing with their heads originally. I hope the same happens in your situation.

My children are doing incredibly well. They were evaluated by a child custody evaluator (upon my request) and he said they were doing shockingly well. (In reality, though, during the evaluation, I observed some anxiety in both children - he missed it. The good news is that they've worked though it with the help of a great psychologist and they're REALLY doing amazing now.

Your daughter will be fine with all the support you are getting her. One steady, stable, loving and dedicated parent is all that children need, given every study. If you are worried, read the book How Children Succeed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/books/review/how-children-succeed-by-paul-tough.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

OP here. THANKS so much for this. This is perfect. Yes I think DH will be on good behavior, if only to save face!

And don't spend too much time here on DCUM. Keep your old friends, but make new ones who are divorced. They will show you the way.

[Anonymous]

Congrats on brainwashing your child in to not liking her father.

Telling him "he is sick" when he gets angry. There goes any discipline he'll be able to enforce.

Sending her to therapy with a therapist YOU like...so most likely have said stuff to you to believe the therapist will say the things YOU want your daughter to hear.

I'm glad you got out of your marriage. But don't turn your child against her father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Congrats on brainwashing your child in to not liking her father.

Telling him "he is sick" when he gets angry. There goes any discipline he'll be able to enforce.

Sending her to therapy with a therapist YOU like...so most likely have said stuff to you to believe the therapist will say the things YOU want your daughter to hear.

I'm glad you got out of your marriage. But don't turn your child against her father.

Yea, because it's a MUCH better option for the child to think they did something wrong or it's their fault when their father lashes out at them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congrats on brainwashing your child in to not liking her father.

Telling him "he is sick" when he gets angry. There goes any discipline he'll be able to enforce.

Sending her to therapy with a therapist YOU like...so most likely have said stuff to you to believe the therapist will say the things YOU want your daughter to hear.

I'm glad you got out of your marriage. But don't turn your child against her father.

Yea, because it's a MUCH better option for the child to think they did something wrong or it's their fault when their father lashes out at them

True

So every time Dad gets upset now, it is because he is sick. That'll work well for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congrats on brainwashing your child in to not liking her father.

Telling him "he is sick" when he gets angry. There goes any discipline he'll be able to enforce.

Sending her to therapy with a therapist YOU like...so most likely have said stuff to you to believe the therapist will say the things YOU want your daughter to hear.

I'm glad you got out of your marriage. But don't turn your child against her father.

Yea, because it's a MUCH better option for the child to think they did something wrong or it's their fault when their father lashes out at them

Exactly. Children are smart. They know when they have a fantastic father, and they know when their father is abusive. If anything it's a relief to have the truth acknowledged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Congrats on brainwashing your child in to not liking her father.

Telling him "he is sick" when he gets angry. There goes any discipline he'll be able to enforce.

Sending her to therapy with a therapist YOU like...so most likely have said stuff to you to believe the therapist will say the things YOU want your daughter to hear.

I'm glad you got out of your marriage. But don't turn your child against her father.

OP here. Alot of assumptions. For your sake, I will clarify.

1) He was DX'd with depression and anger issues. That was two years ago. His anger was completely out of bounds. I had to explain he was ill, because he was and is. I supported any parenting of her that he did that was reasonable. But if he got "weird" I would pull him aside later and try to reason with him that what he jsut said was not quite working.

2) We have a therapist that we saw as a couple. That is the therapist I proposed to him (at the most recent psychiatric appointment I was invited by the doc and him) to attend as a family to make sure she is ok. He agreed. But that doesnt mean it will happen. I hope it does.

3) I do have my own therapist who explained to me that kids can be frightened by the prospect of dealing with a parent with mental illness. I asked if I could meet with him and her to discuss. We will see what he says. I have no agenda but what is best for my child. But the truth must be part of that.

4) From the very start of problems, when my daughter would come to me and tell me of her interactions with her father and her feelings about them, I would always explain where it was clear that he had completely appropriate feelings and points in a given situation. However, in order to validate his VALID parenting points and concerns, I had to validate her observations of things that didnt sound quite right.

Im sorry for whatever situation you have found yourself in that would lead you to assume I would turn my daughter against her father. The fact is, I hope more than anything that he will get the help he needs so SHE can see the guy I MARRIED 20 years ago. It is vitally important that she gets a shot at knowing HIM, inasmuch as he will allow it, and inasmuch as his illness will allow him to reveal it to her.

The good news is, according to a friend of ours, he intends to "keep his appointments" with his doc. This tells me he at least understand that some help is needed. It was his choice to blame ME for all his issues, which stem from the treatment his parents meted out.

Had they loved my future husband like he deserved to be loved, as a sensitive super talented child, then I would still be married to him. He would not have raised his fist at me, nor try to turn our daughter against me while screaming in my face at 2 inches distance.

It is a sad thing to realize that there are some maladies of the mind and soul that no amount of love can repair retroactively. My husband is loved deeply by his daughter. I have taught her that her love is something he not only deserves but needs. At the same time, when he says things like "Im not coming to Christmas because you didnt apologize to me sincerely enought" that this does not come from the best that he is, but from what has taken him over.

[Anonymous]

OP again. We all share in common here, I believe, the goal of doing what is really best for children. When a mental illness is involved, there are no easy answers. The exchange above demonstrates that.

I was just talking to a friend whose wife is a paranoid schizophrenic. He recalls seeing his son asking "Mom, who are you talking to?"

When we lose someone mentally, we are haunted. It's just how it is. Compassion is absolutely essential. But boundaries, however imperfect, need to be established. I am lucky enough to have community and family support as well as a few professionals. I seek advice, and I take it all in. I know in my heart, and all the people who know my efforts know that I have not ever turned by daughter against her father. However, I have also been the only one to really protect her from harm, because DH was too sick to do so. He WANTED to, but he could not.

His love for her, I believe, will be the key in his recovery. And it should be. Again, she deserves to know the guy I saw. Even if he is gone. I hope he is still "in there". BEcause he was loving and kind, and a good person.

[Anonymous]

Pathetic update: I cant go into details, because I would not put it past him to troll this forum, but in just two weeks he has managed to attempt to manipulate our daughter against me, yelling at her for telling me something that happened that made her uncomfortable, and grilling her about something she said in family therapy which was just expressing concern for him.

He has no shame.

And this is just the beginning.

[Anonymous]

OP, your daughter is a tool to him and when she's alone with him she is at the mercy of his disorder. He can't see her as a person that must be cared for. He sees her as something that exists in relation to the mess of his twisted-up feelings and self-image and needs. She is a child and has little defense against this. Heck, it's hard for an adult to deal with BPD people, which is why you saved your neck. I know you're desperate to protect your child, and I fear you may be throwing her to the wolves by leaving her alone with him. Sadly, courts don't protect children from emotional abuse the way they do from physical abuse.

I think you should do all you can to limit her time with him, and do not put her through family therapy where he can know anything she says or feels about him. You're going to spend a lot of time and money trying to keep up with undoing the toxins he feeds her with every visit.

When my husband was a child, his BPD father used to have visitation with him, and would manipulate and guilt and shame the boy. The boy grew up feeling everything was his fault, full of shame, full of self-hate, and with a load of BPD traits.

Because children internalize the voices of their parents.

I wish you luck and strength, OP. It's going to be a long battle.