Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would show him your post. If he gets angry, so what. You guys need to talk about this. It's not normal, and it sounds lonely. Was he like this before the baby? Ask him flat-out if he's really happy. The answer may be "no," so be prepared for the heart-thump you will feel when he says it.

He's into gardening, so explain to him that your marriage us like a garden. It needs watering and attention. Sounds like some counseling is in order. Ask him to go with you a set number of times; if he's so rigid, then having a known quantity of sessions may help him agree to go. You may like to find the therapist first or find 2-3 candidates and pick the final one together with your husband, so he feels some ownership of it.

Good luck. Please keep us posted.

+1

[Anonymous]

Might he be on the spectrum? That was an interesting point. But OP, Ido think you should share this with him, or write him a letter expressing these very thoughts. He wants all the trappings if marriage but not the relationship - that is what his behavior is telling you loud and clear.

[Anonymous]

That reads like anxiety to me, on your husband's part. He's so stressed and keyed up and doing things all the time so he never slows down and opens up enough to deal with whatever it is he's *really* feeling.

Can you get him out on a date night? Set up a babysitter, go out, and talk? Something seems really wrong with your DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kind of a gender role reversal, but this dynamic is not at all uncommon with the woman neglecting her husband due to all of the housework that "has" to be done.

Good luck breaking that cycle.

This isn't at all similar to that. He is creating work and projects for himself to avoid her, the podcasts are also pure avoidance. He's unhappy with something, or has energy to burn...but he is not driven by a sense of responsibility to the household here. What a strange dynamic. OP, he may take great care of the house and his job and child but he's not taking good care of his marriage. That is a 100% legit way for you to feel. What if you scheduled a family therapy session and had a chance to say this all to him in front of a counselor? Could you get him there, and would it help him express what's truly going on?

I think it's very similar. I don't know that we can conclude he's not motivated by a sense of responsibility to the household. New mothers often feel like the kid "needs" a lot more than he or she actually does and that the house needs more than it actually does. And, because they're satisfying these self-imposed burdens in the name of "responsibility to the family," they often neglect their marriages. Don't want to interact with their husbands because they're "all touched out" or "need some me time."

Looks like that's very similar to what OP's husband is doing. He's doing things which, on their surface, are for the family - but, because they are above and beyond what's actually necessary, show a certain kind of selfishness. (E.g. are the baby sign language classes because the kid actually needs them or because new mom wants to have bragging rights in her mom circles? Is the organic baby food actually necessary for the child to be healthy or is OP's husband looking to show off / avoid his wife?) Is the "me time" / podcast time reasonable in light of the declining connection between husband & wife?

I think they are similar situations and OP's husband has his priorities out of whack. He needs to dial down his roles as father / podcast enthusiast and dial up his role as husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kind of a gender role reversal, but this dynamic is not at all uncommon with the woman neglecting her husband due to all of the housework that "has" to be done.

Good luck breaking that cycle.

This isn't at all similar to that. He is creating work and projects for himself to avoid her, the podcasts are also pure avoidance. He's unhappy with something, or has energy to burn...but he is not driven by a sense of responsibility to the household here. What a strange dynamic. OP, he may take great care of the house and his job and child but he's not taking good care of his marriage. That is a 100% legit way for you to feel. What if you scheduled a family therapy session and had a chance to say this all to him in front of a counselor? Could you get him there, and would it help him express what's truly going on?

I think it's very similar. I don't know that we can conclude he's not motivated by a sense of responsibility to the household. New mothers often feel like the kid "needs" a lot more than he or she actually does and that the house needs more than it actually does. And, because they're satisfying these self-imposed burdens in the name of "responsibility to the family," they often neglect their marriages. Don't want to interact with their husbands because they're "all touched out" or "need some me time."

Looks like that's very similar to what OP's husband is doing. He's doing things which, on their surface, are for the family - but, because they are above and beyond what's actually necessary, show a certain kind of selfishness. (E.g. are the baby sign language classes because the kid actually needs them or because new mom wants to have bragging rights in her mom circles? Is the organic baby food actually necessary for the child to be healthy or is OP's husband looking to show off / avoid his wife?) Is the "me time" / podcast time reasonable in light of the declining connection between husband & wife?

I think they are similar situations and OP's husband has his priorities out of whack. He needs to dial down his roles as father / podcast enthusiast and dial up his role as husband.

OP here. I do share your view of the tasks -- it's not that they are not useful to our household. They are hugely useful. It's just that he feels pressure to be doing things like weeding the vegetable garden as if it is a necessity, and I don't see it as a necessity at all. I do think a lot of moms that I know get like this -- they have unnecessarily high standards for housework or closet organizing or pureeing perfect organic foods or whatever...these are WANTS, not NEEDS, IMO.

In addition, some of the things he is doing are definitely needs -- like, cooking us dinner - but because he does them with headphones on the whole time and is irritated and inconvenienced when I try to make any sort of conversation or work together on something, they become solitary activities rather than something we can do as a family.

So many people in our extended family, on both sides, think that he is a f'ing saint. And on paper he is. I really don't know any other husband who does so much. He's like superdad the way some driven moms are super mom. I really do relate to those husbands who feel neglected and overlooked as their wives pursue the latest Pinterest project or something. And I'm sure he could get on here and complain that I'm not pulling my weight. I'm not. I'm really, really not. I'm so depressed and so isolated and so lonely that I'm checking out, too, spending time on DCUM or Facebook on my phone while he's out weeding rather than going downstairs and folding laundry or paying bills.

Responses here have been so very kind, I really do appreciate it. And it makes me feel slightly less lonely, though it probably shouldn't. I need real friends, not just anonymous kind people. But the anonymous kind people are much, much appreciated.

[Anonymous]

I think counseling is so essential for you guys, because you both are operating on unstated assumptions/premises that the other one isn't hearing or isn't relating to (you lay them out really well). If he really won't do counseling, do it yourself. It will help. It will also make him realize you are serious. If you are ready to split over this, you can also offer counseling as an alternative - I did that with my own counseling-resistant husband, and he agreed to go rather than separate. But that's what it took in our case.

[Anonymous]

Why don't you go outside and help him? Ask him what you can do? Read something about gardening and ask his opinion. Instead of looking at fb or dcum I would read something about winter gardens or small greenhouses. Ignore the glare when he takes his headphones off. I would have walked out to the garden naked or in something sexy during that nap. Be more aggressive in getting what you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kind of a gender role reversal, but this dynamic is not at all uncommon with the woman neglecting her husband due to all of the housework that "has" to be done.

Good luck breaking that cycle.

This isn't at all similar to that. He is creating work and projects for himself to avoid her, the podcasts are also pure avoidance. He's unhappy with something, or has energy to burn...but he is not driven by a sense of responsibility to the household here. What a strange dynamic. OP, he may take great care of the house and his job and child but he's not taking good care of his marriage. That is a 100% legit way for you to feel. What if you scheduled a family therapy session and had a chance to say this all to him in front of a counselor? Could you get him there, and would it help him express what's truly going on?

I think it's very similar. I don't know that we can conclude he's not motivated by a sense of responsibility to the household. New mothers often feel like the kid "needs" a lot more than he or she actually does and that the house needs more than it actually does. And, because they're satisfying these self-imposed burdens in the name of "responsibility to the family," they often neglect their marriages. Don't want to interact with their husbands because they're "all touched out" or "need some me time."

Looks like that's very similar to what OP's husband is doing. He's doing things which, on their surface, are for the family - but, because they are above and beyond what's actually necessary, show a certain kind of selfishness. (E.g. are the baby sign language classes because the kid actually needs them or because new mom wants to have bragging rights in her mom circles? Is the organic baby food actually necessary for the child to be healthy or is OP's husband looking to show off / avoid his wife?) Is the "me time" / podcast time reasonable in light of the declining connection between husband & wife?

I think they are similar situations and OP's husband has his priorities out of whack. He needs to dial down his roles as father / podcast enthusiast and dial up his role as husband.

OP here. I do share your view of the tasks -- it's not that they are not useful to our household. They are hugely useful. It's just that he feels pressure to be doing things like weeding the vegetable garden as if it is a necessity, and I don't see it as a necessity at all. I do think a lot of moms that I know get like this -- they have unnecessarily high standards for housework or closet organizing or pureeing perfect organic foods or whatever...these are WANTS, not NEEDS, IMO.

In addition, some of the things he is doing are definitely needs -- like, cooking us dinner - but because he does them with headphones on the whole time and is irritated and inconvenienced when I try to make any sort of conversation or work together on something, they become solitary activities rather than something we can do as a family.

So many people in our extended family, on both sides, think that he is a f'ing saint. And on paper he is. I really don't know any other husband who does so much. He's like superdad the way some driven moms are super mom. I really do relate to those husbands who feel neglected and overlooked as their wives pursue the latest Pinterest project or something. And I'm sure he could get on here and complain that I'm not pulling my weight. I'm not. I'm really, really not. I'm so depressed and so isolated and so lonely that I'm checking out, too, spending time on DCUM or Facebook on my phone while he's out weeding rather than going downstairs and folding laundry or paying bills.

Responses here have been so very kind, I really do appreciate it. And it makes me feel slightly less lonely, though it probably shouldn't. I need real friends, not just anonymous kind people. But the anonymous kind people are much, much appreciated.

OP, I am a man here and you have my complete sympathy. To be truthful, you are an absolute saint, and I think you are giving your husband way too much credit because this is a gender reversal of the more common problem of a man wanting sex and intimacy (among other things) and the woman turning into super mom when the baby comes and losing any sense of being the wife and romantic partner that was the basis of the marriage.

I am really hesitant to say this, as I don't know your husband, but he it does sound like he might be gay. If he is not, he is definitely avoiding intimacy for some other reason. And leaving gender essentialism aside, it is not normal at all for a man to not want sex. Men need sexual release, and the fact he isn't going to you for it means something is really wrong.

When my wife turns into supermom and away from being my wife and sexual partner, I do speak up very clearly. It is not easy - trust me, it can lead to tears - but if I don't I know our marriage will end or I will cheat. I usually explain it this way (condensed version): I want to have a good healthy sex life. DW is my only approved sexual outlet. If she isn't going to be my sexual partner, then I will be miserable or I will ask to see another sexual partner.

I honestly wonder if your husband would care if you had an affair. Although my guess is if you started seeing a guy who paid attention to you and rocked your world sexually you would have no reason to return to your husband. Best of luck to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he OCD, or anxious, or gay? His constant cleaning with podcasts seems like a way to hide from you - it doesn't seem like it's really about the cleaning. Does he have any leisure activities he enjoys that you could join him in? I really really think you guys should do couples coumseling. Good luck!

When I was reading the OPs first post this was the first thing that popped into my head. Then when I read her follow up and his lack of interest in sex, it cemented my initial thoughts.

This guy is clearly avoiding any sort of relationship with the OP, sexual and emotional. He wants the family and the perfect house, but wants nothing to do with the relationship. I don't think this will be ending well.

+1

My DH could be on his deathbed and he would still want sex. You need to tell him your marriage is in trouble and you want counseling. If he refuses or things do not change in 6months, get a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you go outside and help him? Ask him what you can do? Read something about gardening and ask his opinion. Instead of looking at fb or dcum I would read something about winter gardens or small greenhouses. Ignore the glare when he takes his headphones off. I would have walked out to the garden naked or in something sexy during that nap. Be more aggressive in getting what you want.

This is a good idea, but I have tried it to no avail. I walk out to the garden and he is annoyed to have to take off his headphones. He does not want to garden side-by-side -- there is plenty of room for it and I would be totally fine with working on weeding together if we could have a conversation! I've been desperate enough that I've even worked along side him without him talking to me, but on at least that one occasion, he got kind of frustrated that I was doing things differently than the way he would do them himself, and he got frustrated even trying to explain it to me, so he just said I could be in charge of it and went into the house to do something else, away from me.

It's hard not to conclude that he just has no desire to spend any time with me, which is a pretty crappy place to be after such a short marriage. We were together for four years before marriage, and the relationship had it's intensely close, intimate period, which lasted maybe a year or so, and it's been up and down since then, but we were intensely close again at the time we got engaged. (He was in therapy and extremely emotionally available then, which is what got me to accept his proposal even though I had had reservations about how distant we had gotten.)

Now he's swung back to being distant, so distant, so much more distant than ever. He used to talk about how awful his first marriage was, how they weren't friends on any level very quickly into the marriage, but that they stayed together nearly 15 years for their child, and that he doesn't want that; he wants a friend in marriage. But we're not friends. We're cordial, distant roommates who occasionally are naked together and love our wonderful little child. I've said to him so many times things like, "Honestly, it really doesn't seem like you want to be married to me. If you're happier by yourself, doing gardening, riding alone, listening to podcasts all the time, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. Why should we be married then?" But he always protests that he's happy the way things are.

I guess it's coming down to feeling like it doesn't really even matter to me that he's happy the way things are - I'm not at all happy and he's not at all willing to change or work on it. He blows up at me when I try to talk about it, he's not willing to go to therapy with me, he's not willing to go to therapy on his own, and I'm just falling further and further down a well of despair. But then I think of how insane I'd be to think of breaking up our family when he is such a good dad. And (on paper) such a devoted husband. He packed me a lunch for this morning, for instance -- with vegetables and dip, leftovers from last night, my daily vitamins, a paper towel, and a piece of my favorite candy for dessert. How thoughtful and lovely is that? So thoughtful. Only I would rather have had 5 minutes of conversation with him rather than him spend 5 minutes making me my lunch. Which makes me feel like an ungrateful jerk, but it's come to the point that I actually am not all that grateful. I didn't ask for a lunch. I asked, begged for time together. But I got a lunch and a clean car and laundry folded and bottles washed and a clean kitchen and who am I to complain when he does so much?

Everyone's kind and perceptive replies are almost making me even more depressed about the whole thing.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't assume that he is gay. Being constantly obsessed with various projects, and being irritable/defensive when disturbed, is classic OCD/autism spectrum symptoms.

Also, he apparently did the same thing during his last marriage. You'd think one marriage would be enough for a gay guy in modern times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you go outside and help him? Ask him what you can do? Read something about gardening and ask his opinion. Instead of looking at fb or dcum I would read something about winter gardens or small greenhouses. Ignore the glare when he takes his headphones off. I would have walked out to the garden naked or in something sexy during that nap. Be more aggressive in getting what you want.

This is a good idea, but I have tried it to no avail. I walk out to the garden and he is annoyed to have to take off his headphones. He does not want to garden side-by-side -- there is plenty of room for it and I would be totally fine with working on weeding together if we could have a conversation! I've been desperate enough that I've even worked along side him without him talking to me, but on at least that one occasion, he got kind of frustrated that I was doing things differently than the way he would do them himself, and he got frustrated even trying to explain it to me, so he just said I could be in charge of it and went into the house to do something else, away from me.

It's hard not to conclude that he just has no desire to spend any time with me, which is a pretty crappy place to be after such a short marriage. We were together for four years before marriage, and the relationship had it's intensely close, intimate period, which lasted maybe a year or so, and it's been up and down since then, but we were intensely close again at the time we got engaged. (He was in therapy and extremely emotionally available then, which is what got me to accept his proposal even though I had had reservations about how distant we had gotten.)

Now he's swung back to being distant, so distant, so much more distant than ever. He used to talk about how awful his first marriage was, how they weren't friends on any level very quickly into the marriage, but that they stayed together nearly 15 years for their child, and that he doesn't want that; he wants a friend in marriage. But we're not friends. We're cordial, distant roommates who occasionally are naked together and love our wonderful little child. I've said to him so many times things like, "Honestly, it really doesn't seem like you want to be married to me. If you're happier by yourself, doing gardening, riding alone, listening to podcasts all the time, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. Why should we be married then?" But he always protests that he's happy the way things are.

I guess it's coming down to feeling like it doesn't really even matter to me that he's happy the way things are - I'm not at all happy and he's not at all willing to change or work on it. He blows up at me when I try to talk about it, he's not willing to go to therapy with me, he's not willing to go to therapy on his own, and I'm just falling further and further down a well of despair. But then I think of how insane I'd be to think of breaking up our family when he is such a good dad. And (on paper) such a devoted husband. He packed me a lunch for this morning, for instance -- with vegetables and dip, leftovers from last night, my daily vitamins, a paper towel, and a piece of my favorite candy for dessert. How thoughtful and lovely is that? So thoughtful. Only I would rather have had 5 minutes of conversation with him rather than him spend 5 minutes making me my lunch. Which makes me feel like an ungrateful jerk, but it's come to the point that I actually am not all that grateful. I didn't ask for a lunch. I asked, begged for time together. But I got a lunch and a clean car and laundry folded and bottles washed and a clean kitchen and who am I to complain when he does so much?

Everyone's kind and perceptive replies are almost making me even more depressed about the whole thing.

OP, I went through a similar phase with a low libido DW when the babies came. I told her how much I appreciated all the gestures - the meals, the clean house, the chores all done - but that I really wanted sex and intimacy. And that of the things I wanted in life - a nice home, good food, friendship, sex and intimacy, the sex and intimacy were the ones I could only get from her (we could outsource the rest).

I don't understand how anyone can demand celibacy from their partner. Either sex is a big deal, something that cements the bonds of marriage, or it isn't that big of a deal and therefore he should have no problem with you getting it elsewhere. Your soul is going to whither and your esteem will be shredded if your husband doesn't change something. Men don't take subtle hints, and although it sounds like you have raised the issue, you may have to do it very bluntly. If he doesn't change after a blunt conversation, you have to choose between being married or being happy.

I feel for you and wouldn't fault you if you had an affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you go outside and help him? Ask him what you can do? Read something about gardening and ask his opinion. Instead of looking at fb or dcum I would read something about winter gardens or small greenhouses. Ignore the glare when he takes his headphones off. I would have walked out to the garden naked or in something sexy during that nap. Be more aggressive in getting what you want.

This is a good idea, but I have tried it to no avail. I walk out to the garden and he is annoyed to have to take off his headphones. He does not want to garden side-by-side -- there is plenty of room for it and I would be totally fine with working on weeding together if we could have a conversation! I've been desperate enough that I've even worked along side him without him talking to me, but on at least that one occasion, he got kind of frustrated that I was doing things differently than the way he would do them himself, and he got frustrated even trying to explain it to me, so he just said I could be in charge of it and went into the house to do something else, away from me.

It's hard not to conclude that he just has no desire to spend any time with me, which is a pretty crappy place to be after such a short marriage. We were together for four years before marriage, and the relationship had it's intensely close, intimate period, which lasted maybe a year or so, and it's been up and down since then, but we were intensely close again at the time we got engaged. (He was in therapy and extremely emotionally available then, which is what got me to accept his proposal even though I had had reservations about how distant we had gotten.)

Now he's swung back to being distant, so distant, so much more distant than ever. He used to talk about how awful his first marriage was, how they weren't friends on any level very quickly into the marriage, but that they stayed together nearly 15 years for their child, and that he doesn't want that; he wants a friend in marriage. But we're not friends. We're cordial, distant roommates who occasionally are naked together and love our wonderful little child. I've said to him so many times things like, "Honestly, it really doesn't seem like you want to be married to me. If you're happier by yourself, doing gardening, riding alone, listening to podcasts all the time, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. Why should we be married then?" But he always protests that he's happy the way things are.

I guess it's coming down to feeling like it doesn't really even matter to me that he's happy the way things are - I'm not at all happy and he's not at all willing to change or work on it. He blows up at me when I try to talk about it, he's not willing to go to therapy with me, he's not willing to go to therapy on his own, and I'm just falling further and further down a well of despair. But then I think of how insane I'd be to think of breaking up our family when he is such a good dad. And (on paper) such a devoted husband. He packed me a lunch for this morning, for instance -- with vegetables and dip, leftovers from last night, my daily vitamins, a paper towel, and a piece of my favorite candy for dessert. How thoughtful and lovely is that? So thoughtful. Only I would rather have had 5 minutes of conversation with him rather than him spend 5 minutes making me my lunch. Which makes me feel like an ungrateful jerk, but it's come to the point that I actually am not all that grateful. I didn't ask for a lunch. I asked, begged for time together. But I got a lunch and a clean car and laundry folded and bottles washed and a clean kitchen and who am I to complain when he does so much?

Everyone's kind and perceptive replies are almost making me even more depressed about the whole thing.

OP, I went through a similar phase with a low libido DW when the babies came. I told her how much I appreciated all the gestures - the meals, the clean house, the chores all done - but that I really wanted sex and intimacy. And that of the things I wanted in life - a nice home, good food, friendship, sex and intimacy, the sex and intimacy were the ones I could only get from her (we could outsource the rest).

I don't understand how anyone can demand celibacy from their partner. Either sex is a big deal, something that cements the bonds of marriage, or it isn't that big of a deal and therefore he should have no problem with you getting it elsewhere. Your soul is going to whither and your esteem will be shredded if your husband doesn't change something. Men don't take subtle hints, and although it sounds like you have raised the issue, you may have to do it very bluntly. If he doesn't change after a blunt conversation, you have to choose between being married or being happy.

I feel for you and wouldn't fault you if you had an affair.

OP here - thanks for the understanding. It's funny how the role reversal with new moms vs. new dads feeling a lack of intimacy is really resonating!

I would fault myself for having an affair. I would not have an affair. I'd end the marriage first. I'm probably vulnerable to an emotional affair, and I will guard against it, but it would certainly be very seductive to have a co-worker actually be interested in talking to me. As it is, my office mate who I see only 2 days a week talks to me more than my husband does. I wouldn't cross the line when it comes to sex, but I'm not willing to live the rest of my life being rejected all the time. (Obviously, I'll stop initiating entirely at some point.) But if things don't change, I can't see that we could stay together. Not so much because I can not live without sex - I could see it if he were injured or something - but because I see it as a lubricant for everything else -- it smooths over all the rough edges between people...it keeps the gears humming in a marriage. And I can already see ours getting damaged from all the friction between us. I don't want my child being raised in a household with that kind of friction, with no affection and laughter and friendship between parents. And I don't want it for myself. (Sigh)

[Anonymous]

OP, I feel for you. My DH just so you don't feel so alone can be like this -- staying up late cleaning things and can be hard to talk to. At dinner he zones out and a lot of the conversation we have is with our barely verbal toddler.

The thing is you have done all the right things. You have tried communicating your feelings, therapy, etc. I think the one thing you haven't done is communicate the importance of your feelings. It is clear you can't live like this. You don't want to. So you need to tell your DH that some things need to change. And you don't want an ultimatum, exactly, but to communicate that something must change because you are miserable and can't continue on as you've been.

Come armed to this conversation with suggestions that you would like to consider. Not all are necessary. Here are some suggestions:
1) weekly date night to reconnect
2) start a joint hobby
3) counseling to get a 3rd party to help you figure out how to mediate
4) regular family dinners w/no podcast rule

I am feeling for you OP. I told my DH that he uses these chores to destress which helped a little but I think my DH was just stressed not trying for isolation. He needs to talk to you about what he is feeling. If he cannot, he needs to realize his marriage and partnership with you is on the line. If he is happy with how things are, then he is very selfish, because he is happy seeing you unhappy. That isn't fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
When my wife turns into supermom and away from being my wife and sexual partner, I do speak up very clearly. It is not easy - trust me, it can lead to tears - but if I don't I know our marriage will end or I will cheat. I usually explain it this way (condensed version): I want to have a good healthy sex life. DW is my only approved sexual outlet. If she isn't going to be my sexual partner, then I will be miserable or I will ask to see another sexual partner.

The bolded part isn't untrue, but I hope you have a little tact when expressing this sentiment to your spouse. If she's already not feeling sexy, being told you want to have sex with her because you're not allowed to have sex with anyone else is going to make the problem that much worse. Most people want their spouse to want them in particular.