Drinking Scapegoat

[Anonymous]

Yes don't listen to the drunks on this board, they will defend any drinking problem.

[Anonymous]

OP, my DH stopped drinking several years ago. He agreed with our therapist that he would stop for a year. After the year was up, he decided to "drink moderately." That lasted a few weeks. And so I asked him to stop again. We had a little back and forth about it for about six months, during which time he read a book called "Rational Recovery."

One of the theories in the book really resonated with my DH. The book called that addictive voice of the brain "the beast" (cheesy, I know). The beast can hold out for alcohol for long periods of time, so long as it knows it can get some eventually. That's when DH decided that he had to promise never to drink again.

Your DH's therapist sounds terrible, frankly. Has he or she never heard of people being sober for years even, and then relapsing? To say, "well you quit for 5 months so you must not be an addict" is moronic. It really took my DH deciding never to drink again that stopped that voice for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my take. Because he is an alcoholic/has a drinking problem he's going to interpret anything he hears as permission to keep drinking and twist anything he hears as support for his drinking and denial of the fact that he has a problem in the first place. On top of that, you are passive, passive-aggressive, manipulative, and unable to give him a clear and absolute "NO" about his drinking because you don't want any responsibility for it and you want to be a princess. Together, you are a train wreck.

You asked.

Thank you for your answer. Every time I have asked about dealing with an alcoholic on here, people day they have to own their own recovery and you can't make them stop. So, based on that advice, I don't make rules for him. I am not his mother.

My therapist does know him, so it's not a matter of me hiding the truth. We originally tried couples counseling with the therapist when I was seeing someone else individually. The therapist has seen first-hand what happens if you suggest he needs to change. First, he threatens to kill himself. Then he threatens to sue the therapist. So this is why we don't do couples counseling.

I think you might be right that together we are a train wreck. I have been struggling for a long time what to do, especially for the kids' sake. But if complete strangers can see this is a train wreck, it!s time to admit it and get out and hope he doesn't spiral downward so that the verbal abuse of the kids we saw all the time before the intervention comes back.

You don't understand the difference between extending a clear message that you consider him an alcoholic who cannot drink, ever vs. "setting the rules."

If you extend the message that you consider him an alcoholic WHO MUST STOP DRINKING, PERIOD, FOREVER -- then that is the only rule. There are no other rules. The fact that you consider this to be about "rules" -- he can drink one glass of white wine, he can drink if I have the car keys, just shows how fucked up the two of you are in your thinking. The two of you are locked in gamesmanship.

Who cares if he threatens to kill himself? That's what alcoholics do. Who cares if he threatens to sue the therapist? That's the therapist's problem, not yours.

Yes, OP, the truest thing you have written is that only he can recover. You didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it. Repeat that to yourself 10 times every day.

BTW, my husband now has 24 years sobriety. I've been where you are. It sucks. Get off the crazy train before it runs you down and kills your kids too.

[Anonymous]

BTW when I said "Who cares if he threatens to kill himself? That's what alcoholics do." I meant make the threats, not kill themselves.

[Anonymous]

I did tell him he is an alcoholic (as did his father). He categorically rejects that and says we don't know what we are talking about. Then he constantly pressures me to let him drink and gets mad when I say no. If I say I'm not his keeper and he has to choose, he tries to get me to promise I won't get mad if he does. I agree it is f'ed up and I have to do donething. Thanks for the "real talk". I truly mean that.

[Anonymous]

OP- you sound like you're the one with the problem. You sound like a nag.

[Anonymous]

If your DH cannot, or will not admit that he has a problem then that's really the end of the story - you really can't make any plans or move forward with any "agreement".
So he looks to you to tell him if and when he can or should have a drink? If he really is an alcoholic then abstinence is what he needs, not this arbitrary, "okay, haven't had a drink in 5 months to please you so can I have a drink now? If not today then how about next Thursday" stuff. That puts you in a terrible position and makes no sense.
You are carrying the full weight! This is not sustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - have you been to Alanon? Is there more you aren't telling us about your husband hitting bottom before the intervention?
You know what makes me snippy? Head games and being manipulated and controlled and treated like a child.

I've never lived with an alcoholic, but my impression is that a true alcoholic would not have been able to refrain from finishing that last "splash" glass, might have asked to take the extra in the bottle to go, might have gone out for more drinks after you fell asleep, or other behaviors that indicate a lack of control.

Maybe you are the issue and your husband sometimes needs a drink to work up to telling you what he thinks and you don't like to hear negative things so you make him think he has a drinking / anger problem when really you have a control problem.

I think you need couples counselling. Why is he sometimes seeing a counselor anyway? Why not AA with a sponsor?

Seriously, you sound like a whack job. Just reading your post reeks of self-righteousness and controlling behavior. PP what are you not telling us? It is ludicrous to suggest that half a glass of wine made your DH snippy the next day. Your poor DH! I felt like I needed at least 2 glasses of wine just to get through your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, my DH stopped drinking several years ago. He agreed with our therapist that he would stop for a year. After the year was up, he decided to "drink moderately." That lasted a few weeks. And so I asked him to stop again. We had a little back and forth about it for about six months, during which time he read a book called "Rational Recovery."

One of the theories in the book really resonated with my DH. The book called that addictive voice of the brain "the beast" (cheesy, I know). The beast can hold out for alcohol for long periods of time, so long as it knows it can get some eventually. That's when DH decided that he had to promise never to drink again.

Your DH's therapist sounds terrible, frankly. Has he or she never heard of people being sober for years even, and then relapsing? To say, "well you quit for 5 months so you must not be an addict" is moronic. It really took my DH deciding never to drink again that stopped that voice for him.

I wonder if her DH's therapist is really saying he has no problem - he won't let OP talk to his therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - have you been to Alanon? Is there more you aren't telling us about your husband hitting bottom before the intervention?
You know what makes me snippy? Head games and being manipulated and controlled and treated like a child.

I've never lived with an alcoholic, but my impression is that a true alcoholic would not have been able to refrain from finishing that last "splash" glass, might have asked to take the extra in the bottle to go, might have gone out for more drinks after you fell asleep, or other behaviors that indicate a lack of control.

Maybe you are the issue and your husband sometimes needs a drink to work up to telling you what he thinks and you don't like to hear negative things so you make him think he has a drinking / anger problem when really you have a control problem.

I think you need couples counselling. Why is he sometimes seeing a counselor anyway? Why not AA with a sponsor?

Seriously, you sound like a whack job. Just reading your post reeks of self-righteousness and controlling behavior. PP what are you not telling us? It is ludicrous to suggest that half a glass of wine made your DH snippy the next day. Your poor DH! I felt like I needed at least 2 glasses of wine just to get through your post.

PP, you did not read OP's earlier post some months ago.
I don't think anyone disagreed that her DH had a problem - she is not giving details about his prior drinking history here but if she did you would understand that OP isn't a "whack job".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He stopped drinking--easily--and has been sober for five months, at your request. He asks you permission to drink, and when you say that he can't, he doesn't. You go on vacation, go out to dinner just the two of you, and he has three glasses of wine. One time. On vacation. This is a huge problem for you, and you seem to think that you're the victim here. Is that correct?

Not the OP, but yes, that is a huge problem when you are married to an alcoholic. Bottom line? He shouldn't have any because he can't control himself. He orchastrates the the situation so that no matter what happens, he is not at fault.

OP, I am sorry you have to go through this. My dad was just like this. My mother finally told him she was going to leave if he didn't stop drinking. You can't, nor should you, be response sidle for your husband's actions, but you CAN control how you react.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think I recognize you from previous threads that you've posted. If you are the same person, the amounts you reported that your husband drank were really small/normal, and it seemed like you had simply decided that he had a "problem" and that he was required to stop in order to make you happy. I think you need to look at yourself and try to figure out why you feel compelled to be so incredibly controlling...I can't imagine anyone can have a happy marriage with this particular dynamic going on.

I disagree. My father gets drunk after 2 beers, or a martini, or whatever. He has a rally low tolerance. The scenarios OP has presented (now and before) suggest to me that her DH is an alcoholic.

[Anonymous]

I've never lived with an alcoholic, but my impression is that a true alcoholic would not have been able to refrain from finishing that last "splash" glass, might have asked to take the extra in the bottle to go, might have gone out for more drinks after you fell asleep, or other behaviors that indicate a lack of control.

Good god! Your stupidity and ignorance are astounding! Not only do you know nothing of alcoholism, you know nothing of addictive behaviors in general - and you don't have to live with one to know about addiction. I don't normally say this but have you ever though about using Google? You should before you ever think of opining you know nothing of.

[Anonymous]

OP, you are not responsible for his drinking. If he asks whether he can drink tell him exactly that. If he asks whether you'll be "mad" about it, tell him honestly that you don't like the choices he makes when he's drunk or hungover and that those choices often make you mad.

But the teality is that only one of two things can be happe ing here:
1) you are a control freak who has arbitrarily decided to gaslight your husband and those around him into thinking he had a drinking problem. The best thing you could do for him in this case would be to leave him.
2) you are married to an alcoholic who doesn't think he had a problem and is willing to change only under unhealthy (power struggle dynamic) circumstances. The best thing you could do for him would be to leave him.

I think the answer here is pretty clear.

[Anonymous]

I think you need better support. You are not supposed to be policing his drinking where he asks for permission and you decide how much he can have or if he can have it at all.

It doesn't sound like he stopped drinking for himself at all, but rather because you told him to and he does what he is told, similar to him asking if he can or can't. This sounds like a very unhealthy dynamic in the relationship where you treat him like a child then has acts like a child..can I? can I?, can I have one more, just one more please?

And to the poster you said you don't have to worry about suicide - blatantly wrong. Substance use and abuse plays a significant role in many suicides, and many people with addiction kill themselves. Doesn't mean that a suicide gesture always means an attempt but to say alcoholics don't kill themselves....incorrect.