Straight A's but only if I yell

[Anonymous]

My DD is in sixth grade at 11. Yours is probably in fifth. My attitude is I need her to want to do well, to understand the consequences....bad grades. I would rather her do it now, and get a 1 or 2 in something than me micromanage her now, and her find out at $60K/yr in college.

My DD cares about how she does, which helps, but at times, like all tweens, she plans really poorly. I will help her plan, and even offer to. But I will not yell at her to get something done. That is between her and her teachers. Now, if the outcome is not good, then there will be consequences.

[Anonymous]

With each kid you have to figure out what makes them tick and motivates them. And then provide them with the tools to reach their goals.

If your child can get an A with your yelling alone, it means that she is capable of reaching an A. That is the good news. She needs help with time management and planning though - which means that for a few years you will need to spend time with her daily, and help her plan - her short, medium and long term goals.

Figure out when her playdates are and ask her to work them into her schedule. I have been doing this with my kids and I will ask them each day "What do you need to do today?" As soon as an invitation comes, I ask them to incorporate it and show me the new schedule.

[Anonymous]

OP and people like OP -- when your child is in 5th grade, you can control her. But there does reach a point where she will take the reigns. If grades are in response to your yelling and manipulation ("I am disappointed in you") and not because of something within her, she will fight back one day. And when she does, she'll just stop trying. I've seen it over and over again. OP, you may need to work out for yourself that your DD is not you, she has her own life and it isn't a reflection of you. All that yelling and manipulation may have already poisoned the well.

My DD got OK grades in elementary. I always praised effort. When she got an A I said "you worked really hard for that." When she put time into a project, I praised her for that regardless of the grade. I never, ever told her "you are smart," or "you got As because you are so smart." By high school she was getting straight As. And I had nothing to do with that., it was all her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She loses all TV, playdates and electronics when she earns disappointing grades. However nothing seems to get through to her like the fact that she disappointed me. Most of the time I'm pretty even keel but this is the one area where I get rattled easily. It is a real sacrifice to send her to her school.

"She disappointed me"-that's a problem. You need to find a way to nurture her joy in learning, or send her to a school where she is engaged and loves to learn-it sounds like you have the resources to choose a school that is a good match for her. I teach college students at a highly selective university (in Baltimore) and I see a good number of students who have no intrinsic motivation to learn, only extrinsic (my parents want me to do this is a big one), they are not happy people, and they are not as successful as the self-motivated students who achieve because they love learning and solving problems. Achievement through threats and punishments is just setting you daughter up for problems in the future.

+1

[Anonymous]

OP - You are exerting undue pressure and influence on your daughter. As noted you can control her now, but at what costs later. You are equating her 'worth" in your eyes on her grades, and any learner may just reach a subject matter or level as one goes on that is more difficult than all As. Also, I don't know what planet you live on, but if she is at a very rigorous private school then you better ask ahead to some high school parents about "the pressures" that really can set in for top colleges with all the other crap teens are expected to be strong at: sports fine arts, school service, community service, internships, jobs on and on.

You need to back off now and give your daughter the chance to redefine a more normal parent-child relationship with you. If you are keeping her so much under your knuckle control now, she could possibly maintain that "pressure cooker" relationship of good performance - but at what cost to a lifetime of a relationship with you. She needs to know that you value her more than just for grades. A perfect time to "get back" would be to kiss you off about junior year spring semester..... And one wonders why mental health issues often surface in the later teen years......

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP of this thread and I would like those who are casting stones at me, to please share how your kids performed in school. I am surprised at how many people can't relate. I do appreciate the helpful posters though.

FWIW- I did pose the following question to my kids this weekend without prompting the correct answer," Is it more important to get straight A's or to work hard/do you best?" Both of the kids answered that doing their best was more important.

I just find that my older one in particular at times lacks internal motivation (outside of reading books) which is why I get so frustrated. She has very good standardized test scores also so she is obviously capable. If she didn't have the ability to earn straight A's, I would understand and work with her to ensure she achieved to her highest potential. Taking away her ability to watch TV, electronics,playdates, and lecturing/yelling (I'm not proud of that part) works as motivation now. She is more driven this year than she has been in the past- but she slips back at times. I probably yell/lecture her about once every month or two. It isn't like I am doing this on a daily basis. I would be shocked if the people casting dispersions at me didn't yell at that their children at times too for whatever their hot button is either.

I do and will always hold my kids to high standards and will not make excuses for it. There are always better ways of handling situations and I know I can do better.

I was really hoping to hear from other mom's whose kids earned straight A's whether they felt like they really had to push their children when they were younger or if their young children had an innate drive.

Most of my DD's friends are highly successful in school and I know that their parents are involved and push too. DD and her friends also have very high EQ's too.

[Anonymous]

I am Asian. I will make sure that my kids are successful and would have learned time management and work ethics by the time they leave my house.

Some kids will learn these earlier than others, and I will be there each step of the way to help, guide and support them in every way that I can. However, after senior year - regardless of their intrinsic motivation and personality - they will be launched successfully.

[Anonymous]

My oldest had an innate drive. The younger sibling, not so much. Rather than take away privileges for a bad report card, we provided a minor but coveted reward for a good one (laser tag with a friend, say). On a day-to-day basis, there is no screen time until homework is done, and even then, very little, at least on school days.

Some kids take longer to develop internal motivation. If you push, they never do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian. I will make sure that my kids are successful and would have learned time management and work ethics by the time they leave my house.

Some kids will learn these earlier than others, and I will be there each step of the way to help, guide and support them in every way that I can. However, after senior year - regardless of their intrinsic motivation and personality - they will be launched successfully.

OP again. I am not Asian born but do have many Asian friends. I actually am of Western European descent. I thought I would throw that it in since my methods are probably considered Eastern.

[Anonymous]

OP - here's what I do. No pressure on the grades, but tons of work (even yelling) insuring that he is organized, takes the time to do his assignments, studies, and fesses up to me without defensiveness when i ask. Math tests are always gone over after they come back to make sure the missed material is learned. Again, without defensive behavior. I yell, ground, whatever on these things.

Then I let the grades fall where they fall. Stop talking about outcomes.

I also hired a tutor to work with him on these things (10 may be too young) and so that there would be less yelling at home. Tutor told my son that it was clear I didn't trust him (he'd been lying), and focused on "what can you do so that she trusts you about your school work?" Its working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread and I would like those who are casting stones at me, to please share how your kids performed in school. I am surprised at how many people can't relate. I do appreciate the helpful posters though.

FWIW- I did pose the following question to my kids this weekend without prompting the correct answer," Is it more important to get straight A's or to work hard/do you best?" Both of the kids answered that doing their best was more important.

I just find that my older one in particular at times lacks internal motivation (outside of reading books) which is why I get so frustrated. She has very good standardized test scores also so she is obviously capable. If she didn't have the ability to earn straight A's, I would understand and work with her to ensure she achieved to her highest potential. Taking away her ability to watch TV, electronics,playdates, and lecturing/yelling (I'm not proud of that part) works as motivation now. She is more driven this year than she has been in the past- but she slips back at times. I probably yell/lecture her about once every month or two. It isn't like I am doing this on a daily basis. I would be shocked if the people casting dispersions at me didn't yell at that their children at times too for whatever their hot button is either.

I do and will always hold my kids to high standards and will not make excuses for it. There are always better ways of handling situations and I know I can do better.

I was really hoping to hear from other mom's whose kids earned straight A's whether they felt like they really had to push their children when they were younger or if their young children had an innate drive.

Most of my DD's friends are highly successful in school and I know that their parents are involved and push too. DD and her friends also have very high EQ's too.

OP if what posters are saying upsets look into the research. Yelling doesn't work and can have the opposite effect, as can pressure.

You asked for PPs to share how our kids are doing. I wrote before in this thread that my DC was a so-so student in elementary, that I praised effort and not results (I have NEVER yelled at DC for grades, I have never expressed disappointment in any way) and now is a senior who got straight As through high school (one B, I should confess). More important, DC is intellectually engaged, a creative thinker, and driven to learn. It can't come from the parents, although parents can ruin it.

[Anonymous]

OP, you really don't seem to understand the difference between INTERNAL and EXTERNAL motivation. If you did, you would be making very different choices in your relationship with your DD.

Please slow down and think about what you're doing.

Your behavior is teaching your daughter that there are two reasons to study and work hard in school:

(1) To please you (or to avoid you yelling at her); and

(2) To keep her privileges (or not lose them to your punishment.)

Nothing in there focuses on how i feels TO HER to succeed or fail in school, or how it feels TO HER to work hard and enjoy the good results (learning something new, getting a good grade, discovering a new strength).

Do you see the difference???

So far, you've directly taught her to work hard in order to get (or not lose) something from someone else. Specifically, from YOU.

My mother did the same thing and yes, it worked in the short term. As a child and teenager, I got excellent grades in order to avoid her yelling at or grounding me. As I got a little older, I also developed a deep resentment of her for trying to control my choices and for crowding out my ability to figure things out on my own. It was terrible my for our relationship. We were never close growing up (though I always put on a fake happy face in order keep her off my back), and we're certainly not close now that I'm an adult.

You seem to care about credentials, so here are mine: I skipped a grade as a child, and I went to an Ivy League college. I struggled tremendously my first few years there. My mother had been so heavy-handed about the external motivators that I had never learned what it felt like to be internally motivated. Ultimately I figured things out, but there was a TREMENDOUS cost to me in my 20s and 30s, not to mention it destroyed my relationship with my mother. (Who wants to be close to someone who yells at them?)

My advice: BACK OFF NOW!! Your DD is ten, which is the perfect age for her to start experiences the natural consequences of her choices. If she doesn't put the work in, she will get a lower grade. Let her figure out what she thinks about that and what she might want to do differently next time.

In the meantime, continue to hold "high standards" by telling her what you know she's capable of achieving when she puts in the hard work. But let her experiment with making some choices. Ten is the perfect age to grant her a little more autonomy.

Finally, you said in an earlier post that you think she works hard in order to "not disappoint you" or something like that. My guess is she doesn't give a crap about disappointing you. She just wants you to stop yelling at her and start giving her her stuff back. Basically, she does what you say to get you off her back. (Again, that's EXTERNAL motivation.)

If you want to read more on this subject, I highly recommend starting with Carol Dweck's work (she's a Stanford professor, in case you care), as well as with Self-Determination theory (University of Rochester.)

Here's a good intro article to get you started on the Self-Determination Theory of Motivation: http://www.education.com/reference/article/self-determination-theory-of-motivation/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian. I will make sure that my kids are successful and would have learned time management and work ethics by the time they leave my house.

Some kids will learn these earlier than others, and I will be there each step of the way to help, guide and support them in every way that I can. However, after senior year - regardless of their intrinsic motivation and personality - they will be launched successfully.

OP again. I am not Asian born but do have many Asian friends. I actually am of Western European descent. I thought I would throw that it in since my methods are probably considered Eastern.

LOL. No, I don't consider it Eastern. I consider it very old school type of parenting. You do due diligence as a parent with some tough love thrown in. You try and figure out what each child needs and you give them that support and discipline.

I feel that I have a larger responsibility in raising my kid, than any other entity. I do not feel that that is the role of the school system or the teachers. I see the school as as the workplace and the teacher as the boss. My kids job is to do well at their work. I tell them that if they are successful, I am the one person who gains nothing, but am the happiest and proudest of their achievements. I also tell them that I will not be there for the rest of their lives - so the values I can teach them while they are under my care should be solid enough to last them a lifetime. My job is to watch them carefully, understand the weakness in their personality, work habits etc, and work hard with them to fix it.

If I need to yell - then I will yell. If I need to wake up at 4:00 am to make coffee for them and wake them up to study, I will do that. It is not always easy, but my life for these few years revolves around their needs. Being a parent is not easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian. I will make sure that my kids are successful and would have learned time management and work ethics by the time they leave my house.

Some kids will learn these earlier than others, and I will be there each step of the way to help, guide and support them in every way that I can. However, after senior year - regardless of their intrinsic motivation and personality - they will be launched successfully.

OP again. I am not Asian born but do have many Asian friends. I actually am of Western European descent. I thought I would throw that it in since my methods are probably considered Eastern.

LOL. No, I don't consider it Eastern. I consider it very old school type of parenting. You do due diligence as a parent with some tough love thrown in. You try and figure out what each child needs and you give them that support and discipline.

I feel that I have a larger responsibility in raising my kid, than any other entity. I do not feel that that is the role of the school system or the teachers. I see the school as as the workplace and the teacher as the boss. My kids job is to do well at their work. I tell them that if they are successful, I am the one person who gains nothing, but am the happiest and proudest of their achievements. I also tell them that I will not be there for the rest of their lives - so the values I can teach them while they are under my care should be solid enough to last them a lifetime. My job is to watch them carefully, understand the weakness in their personality, work habits etc, and work hard with them to fix it.

If I need to yell - then I will yell. If I need to wake up at 4:00 am to make coffee for them and wake them up to study, I will do that. It is not always easy, but my life for these few years revolves around their needs. Being a parent is not easy.

OP again....I give my kids the same lecture about how their job is to do well in school. My husband and I work full time and I've told both kids that our job to ensure that we are able to pay the mortgage, private school, food, clothing, activities etc so that they may have a much better life than we did growing up. I've never used the teacher is the boss analogy but I do equate the tests to their "performance" reviews. When my DD gets a really bad grade, I tell her that if I continually performed like that at work that I would lose my job. I also tell my kids that I can't support them forever but I will give them the tools so they will be successful. I love your words though very sweet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian. I will make sure that my kids are successful and would have learned time management and work ethics by the time they leave my house.

Some kids will learn these earlier than others, and I will be there each step of the way to help, guide and support them in every way that I can. However, after senior year - regardless of their intrinsic motivation and personality - they will be launched successfully.

OP again. I am not Asian born but do have many Asian friends. I actually am of Western European descent. I thought I would throw that it in since my methods are probably considered Eastern.

LOL. No, I don't consider it Eastern. I consider it very old school type of parenting. You do due diligence as a parent with some tough love thrown in. You try and figure out what each child needs and you give them that support and discipline.

I feel that I have a larger responsibility in raising my kid, than any other entity. I do not feel that that is the role of the school system or the teachers. I see the school as as the workplace and the teacher as the boss. My kids job is to do well at their work. I tell them that if they are successful, I am the one person who gains nothing, but am the happiest and proudest of their achievements. I also tell them that I will not be there for the rest of their lives - so the values I can teach them while they are under my care should be solid enough to last them a lifetime. My job is to watch them carefully, understand the weakness in their personality, work habits etc, and work hard with them to fix it.

If I need to yell - then I will yell. If I need to wake up at 4:00 am to make coffee for them and wake them up to study, I will do that. It is not always easy, but my life for these few years revolves around their needs. Being a parent is not easy.

OP again....I give my kids the same lecture about how their job is to do well in school. My husband and I work full time and I've told both kids that our job to ensure that we are able to pay the mortgage, private school, food, clothing, activities etc so that they may have a much better life than we did growing up. I've never used the teacher is the boss analogy but I do equate the tests to their "performance" reviews. When my DD gets a really bad grade, I tell her that if I continually performed like that at work that I would lose my job. I also tell my kids that I can't support them forever but I will give them the tools so they will be successful. I love your words though very sweet.

Alas, I don't think we could ever be friends. I hate that phrase (job to do well in school). Really hate it. And the performance review thing - oh boy are you in for it. What will you do if your child works hard and still does poorly on something? Doing well in elementary and doing well later are different things. Either you focus on inputs and study skills, or your teenage years will be rough, particularly if there is a younger kid in the house to whom this stuff comes easier.

Signed, mother of an extremely bright but underachieving lovely 14 year old who I don't want to hate me.