Custody and verbal/emotional abuse of kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be very careful with this. With a man like this he can be highly manipulative and could turn it around so he gets her to not want to be with YOU, or he claims parental alienation if you attempt to influence her to not be with him. The die is cast, he is already her father. IMO it is sometimes best to support her as she gradually figures things out for herself about who her dad is.

Thanks. I’m being crazy cautious and even as I work through how this split will work, I’m being obsessive about making sure that he is offered more than equal time to be with her, to be in the house, take her to activities, etc. And at the same time she’s saying stuff to me that she’s afraid of how he’ll act this time or that she is dreading him driving her to practice or whatever. I probably need specific legal guidance but I worry that even validating her fears could be used against me as alienation ammo. And at the same time, I’m legit afraid for her to be with him if I’m not there, because he is moody and angry and unpredictable.

Ugh, im so ssorry. Getting into the nitty gritty, what is his schedule, how often is he home, what is your version of protecting her? I do think it's big that if you're still married, if he's being that way you can up and take her shopping and he can't do anything, if you're divorced she has no choice but to sit with him and take the abuse.

My dad was like that and my mom would take me to sit at Burger King for hours to get away from him. They divorced and nothing is as great as the peace we felt in our home alone, but that was in the days where the primary parent got custody and I only had to see him a few hours on the weekends where he generally took me to a movie and to see his parents so the only bad time was in the car alone. Living with him 50% of the time would have been torture.

Re: his schedule- he travels erratically for work. Some months it will be two international trips that span sat/sun through Friday. Some months it will be 2-3 shorter trips that go Mon-Thurs or Tues-Fri. His office hours start as early as 6 am or go as late as 7 pm depending on the day and which teams in which time zone he’s talking to.

In other words, his schedule is very erratic and inflexible and I worry that even in divorce I’d be forced to flex around him to keep my DD’s life stable.

I had a similar situation post divorce. If you are doing right by your child, you’d accommodate his schedule anyway, even if it is unfair to you. His work is just as supportive for her livelihood as yours is. Be the bigger person, it is a payoff for your child and often the court sees that and asjusts time accordingly. Also, 50/50 over a calendar year can look very different for different families.

The question you need to look through the lens of with all decisions is, “what is in the best interest (as defined by the state) of the child”? If it is in her best interest to be with one parent a little more during the school year, or to supplement child caregiving services, location, etc. Some people want 50/50, many are fine with 60/40 or 70/30. Custody time can always change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be very careful with this. With a man like this he can be highly manipulative and could turn it around so he gets her to not want to be with YOU, or he claims parental alienation if you attempt to influence her to not be with him. The die is cast, he is already her father. IMO it is sometimes best to support her as she gradually figures things out for herself about who her dad is.

Thanks. I’m being crazy cautious and even as I work through how this split will work, I’m being obsessive about making sure that he is offered more than equal time to be with her, to be in the house, take her to activities, etc. And at the same time she’s saying stuff to me that she’s afraid of how he’ll act this time or that she is dreading him driving her to practice or whatever. I probably need specific legal guidance but I worry that even validating her fears could be used against me as alienation ammo. And at the same time, I’m legit afraid for her to be with him if I’m not there, because he is moody and angry and unpredictable.

Ugh, im so ssorry. Getting into the nitty gritty, what is his schedule, how often is he home, what is your version of protecting her? I do think it's big that if you're still married, if he's being that way you can up and take her shopping and he can't do anything, if you're divorced she has no choice but to sit with him and take the abuse.

My dad was like that and my mom would take me to sit at Burger King for hours to get away from him. They divorced and nothing is as great as the peace we felt in our home alone, but that was in the days where the primary parent got custody and I only had to see him a few hours on the weekends where he generally took me to a movie and to see his parents so the only bad time was in the car alone. Living with him 50% of the time would have been torture.

Re: his schedule- he travels erratically for work. Some months it will be two international trips that span sat/sun through Friday. Some months it will be 2-3 shorter trips that go Mon-Thurs or Tues-Fri. His office hours start as early as 6 am or go as late as 7 pm depending on the day and which teams in which time zone he’s talking to.

In other words, his schedule is very erratic and inflexible and I worry that even in divorce I’d be forced to flex around him to keep my DD’s life stable.

I had a similar situation post divorce. If you are doing right by your child, you’d accommodate his schedule anyway, even if it is unfair to you. His work is just as supportive for her livelihood as yours is. Be the bigger person, it is a payoff for your child and often the court sees that and asjusts time accordingly. Also, 50/50 over a calendar year can look very different for different families.

The question you need to look through the lens of with all decisions is, “what is in the best interest (as defined by the state) of the child”? If it is in her best interest to be with one parent a little more during the school year, or to supplement child caregiving services, location, etc. Some people want 50/50, many are fine with 60/40 or 70/30. Custody time can always change.

I hear what you're saying. But at the same time, in the absence of infinite alimony, which isn't a thing as far as I know, I would need to be able to return to a more intense job to support me and DD. DH's inflexible schedule is one reason I had to step back from my career- there aren't any jobs I know of that would be ok with arriving late and leaving early. I don't know how I could sustain a career that would keep me going through old age if I was still flexing around his erratic travel while doing everything at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you the OP who posted about needing to board her dog when leaving with her daughter?

No, we don't have pets beside a beta fish, thank goodness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Similar situation. Waiting a few more years for kid to be 14/15 and have a say on who they stay with.

I would run interference and carve a busy life with you and DD to minimize time with him. Once she is closer to 14, begin the process

Sorry you're in the same boat. Do you have any strategies for managing the situation that you've found to be helpful? I'm really worried about the impact on DD's development and mental health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You won’t get more than 50/50.

Yes, I understand that and so I’m wondering:

1) at what age does DD get to pick where she gets to go and for how long

2) if the choice is 50/50, is it better to be in an abusive household 100 percent of the time with a mom to protect you and run interference, or an abusive household just 50 percent of the time but with no protection?

Question 2 is what I’m really stuck on.

Kids shouldn’t pick. If he’s abusive and you have evidence, you tell and show the court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be very careful with this. With a man like this he can be highly manipulative and could turn it around so he gets her to not want to be with YOU, or he claims parental alienation if you attempt to influence her to not be with him. The die is cast, he is already her father. IMO it is sometimes best to support her as she gradually figures things out for herself about who her dad is.

Thanks. I’m being crazy cautious and even as I work through how this split will work, I’m being obsessive about making sure that he is offered more than equal time to be with her, to be in the house, take her to activities, etc. And at the same time she’s saying stuff to me that she’s afraid of how he’ll act this time or that she is dreading him driving her to practice or whatever. I probably need specific legal guidance but I worry that even validating her fears could be used against me as alienation ammo. And at the same time, I’m legit afraid for her to be with him if I’m not there, because he is moody and angry and unpredictable.

Ugh, im so ssorry. Getting into the nitty gritty, what is his schedule, how often is he home, what is your version of protecting her? I do think it's big that if you're still married, if he's being that way you can up and take her shopping and he can't do anything, if you're divorced she has no choice but to sit with him and take the abuse.

My dad was like that and my mom would take me to sit at Burger King for hours to get away from him. They divorced and nothing is as great as the peace we felt in our home alone, but that was in the days where the primary parent got custody and I only had to see him a few hours on the weekends where he generally took me to a movie and to see his parents so the only bad time was in the car alone. Living with him 50% of the time would have been torture.

Re: his schedule- he travels erratically for work. Some months it will be two international trips that span sat/sun through Friday. Some months it will be 2-3 shorter trips that go Mon-Thurs or Tues-Fri. His office hours start as early as 6 am or go as late as 7 pm depending on the day and which teams in which time zone he’s talking to.

In other words, his schedule is very erratic and inflexible and I worry that even in divorce I’d be forced to flex around him to keep my DD’s life stable.

He can hire a nanny. His work provides you with a good income. Are you ok with him stepping back and making much less. If he does, it will impact child support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be very careful with this. With a man like this he can be highly manipulative and could turn it around so he gets her to not want to be with YOU, or he claims parental alienation if you attempt to influence her to not be with him. The die is cast, he is already her father. IMO it is sometimes best to support her as she gradually figures things out for herself about who her dad is.

Follow up to ask if you think it’s better not to split so I can keep her safe?

I know that this is hard to hear, but it is important to realize that you cannot keep her safe. Legally he will continue to have the right to spend time with her alone u less he is hitting her and you can prove it. So don’t wear yourself out emotionally or financially fighting for something you will not achieve. The best way to keep her safe is to mentally and emotionally prepare her to deal with difficult people, by strengthening herself and her psychology. And by raising her to become deeply financially independent so that she can afford to walk away from someone who mistreats her, or tries to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be very careful with this. With a man like this he can be highly manipulative and could turn it around so he gets her to not want to be with YOU, or he claims parental alienation if you attempt to influence her to not be with him. The die is cast, he is already her father. IMO it is sometimes best to support her as she gradually figures things out for herself about who her dad is.

Follow up to ask if you think it’s better not to split so I can keep her safe?

I know that this is hard to hear, but it is important to realize that you cannot keep her safe. Legally he will continue to have the right to spend time with her alone u less he is hitting her and you can prove it. So don’t wear yourself out emotionally or financially fighting for something you will not achieve. The best way to keep her safe is to mentally and emotionally prepare her to deal with difficult people, by strengthening herself and her psychology. And by raising her to become deeply financially independent so that she can afford to walk away from someone who mistreats her, or tries to.

Great advice for OP.

[Anonymous]

You can prepare the road for the child or you can prepare the child for the road. The latter is a much greater service to the child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is responding to her mistreatment by her dad as one would expect. I think he assumes she’s still an infant with a goldfish memory. She sobbed in the closet with the dog the night he did it and has been quiet all week, except to ask when he was coming back and then she got upset when she found out he was coming back on x day to get clothes. I’m trying not to say too much because I’m afraid I’ll get accused of putting words in her mouth. I did say that I know she has big feelings about what happened and that it’s normal, and that it’s also ok to react differently than me or to have her feelings change over time, and I offered a few different adults for her to talk to (both family friends she’s close with and professionals) if that would feel helpful.

A GAL isn’t an option I had thought of and I will discuss that with an attorney when I meet them this week- thank you for that suggestion.

I can handle any of this but I don’t want her to acclimate to it.

Do not invite a stranger into your family. No GAL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be very careful with this. With a man like this he can be highly manipulative and could turn it around so he gets her to not want to be with YOU, or he claims parental alienation if you attempt to influence her to not be with him. The die is cast, he is already her father. IMO it is sometimes best to support her as she gradually figures things out for herself about who her dad is.

Thanks. I’m being crazy cautious and even as I work through how this split will work, I’m being obsessive about making sure that he is offered more than equal time to be with her, to be in the house, take her to activities, etc. And at the same time she’s saying stuff to me that she’s afraid of how he’ll act this time or that she is dreading him driving her to practice or whatever. I probably need specific legal guidance but I worry that even validating her fears could be used against me as alienation ammo. And at the same time, I’m legit afraid for her to be with him if I’m not there, because he is moody and angry and unpredictable.

Ugh, im so ssorry. Getting into the nitty gritty, what is his schedule, how often is he home, what is your version of protecting her? I do think it's big that if you're still married, if he's being that way you can up and take her shopping and he can't do anything, if you're divorced she has no choice but to sit with him and take the abuse.

My dad was like that and my mom would take me to sit at Burger King for hours to get away from him. They divorced and nothing is as great as the peace we felt in our home alone, but that was in the days where the primary parent got custody and I only had to see him a few hours on the weekends where he generally took me to a movie and to see his parents so the only bad time was in the car alone. Living with him 50% of the time would have been torture.

Re: his schedule- he travels erratically for work. Some months it will be two international trips that span sat/sun through Friday. Some months it will be 2-3 shorter trips that go Mon-Thurs or Tues-Fri. His office hours start as early as 6 am or go as late as 7 pm depending on the day and which teams in which time zone he’s talking to.

In other words, his schedule is very erratic and inflexible and I worry that even in divorce I’d be forced to flex around him to keep my DD’s life stable.

I had a similar situation post divorce. If you are doing right by your child, you’d accommodate his schedule anyway, even if it is unfair to you. His work is just as supportive for her livelihood as yours is. Be the bigger person, it is a payoff for your child and often the court sees that and asjusts time accordingly. Also, 50/50 over a calendar year can look very different for different families.

The question you need to look through the lens of with all decisions is, “what is in the best interest (as defined by the state) of the child”? If it is in her best interest to be with one parent a little more during the school year, or to supplement child caregiving services, location, etc. Some people want 50/50, many are fine with 60/40 or 70/30. Custody time can always change.

Yes this is good advice except she also needs something of a schedule. So the offer could be something like weekends when he is in town, dinners every Wednesday, a week at Xmas and as much summer vacation as he wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be very careful with this. With a man like this he can be highly manipulative and could turn it around so he gets her to not want to be with YOU, or he claims parental alienation if you attempt to influence her to not be with him. The die is cast, he is already her father. IMO it is sometimes best to support her as she gradually figures things out for herself about who her dad is.

Thanks. I’m being crazy cautious and even as I work through how this split will work, I’m being obsessive about making sure that he is offered more than equal time to be with her, to be in the house, take her to activities, etc. And at the same time she’s saying stuff to me that she’s afraid of how he’ll act this time or that she is dreading him driving her to practice or whatever. I probably need specific legal guidance but I worry that even validating her fears could be used against me as alienation ammo. And at the same time, I’m legit afraid for her to be with him if I’m not there, because he is moody and angry and unpredictable.

Ugh, im so ssorry. Getting into the nitty gritty, what is his schedule, how often is he home, what is your version of protecting her? I do think it's big that if you're still married, if he's being that way you can up and take her shopping and he can't do anything, if you're divorced she has no choice but to sit with him and take the abuse.

My dad was like that and my mom would take me to sit at Burger King for hours to get away from him. They divorced and nothing is as great as the peace we felt in our home alone, but that was in the days where the primary parent got custody and I only had to see him a few hours on the weekends where he generally took me to a movie and to see his parents so the only bad time was in the car alone. Living with him 50% of the time would have been torture.

Re: his schedule- he travels erratically for work. Some months it will be two international trips that span sat/sun through Friday. Some months it will be 2-3 shorter trips that go Mon-Thurs or Tues-Fri. His office hours start as early as 6 am or go as late as 7 pm depending on the day and which teams in which time zone he’s talking to.

In other words, his schedule is very erratic and inflexible and I worry that even in divorce I’d be forced to flex around him to keep my DD’s life stable.

I had a similar situation post divorce. If you are doing right by your child, you’d accommodate his schedule anyway, even if it is unfair to you. His work is just as supportive for her livelihood as yours is. Be the bigger person, it is a payoff for your child and often the court sees that and asjusts time accordingly. Also, 50/50 over a calendar year can look very different for different families.

The question you need to look through the lens of with all decisions is, “what is in the best interest (as defined by the state) of the child”? If it is in her best interest to be with one parent a little more during the school year, or to supplement child caregiving services, location, etc. Some people want 50/50, many are fine with 60/40 or 70/30. Custody time can always change.

I hear what you're saying. But at the same time, in the absence of infinite alimony, which isn't a thing as far as I know, I would need to be able to return to a more intense job to support me and DD. DH's inflexible schedule is one reason I had to step back from my career- there aren't any jobs I know of that would be ok with arriving late and leaving early. I don't know how I could sustain a career that would keep me going through old age if I was still flexing around his erratic travel while doing everything at home.

NP - will your husband oppose/resist you ramping up your work schedule now? If he won't then I'd work on doing that now and perhaps wait to actually separate and divorce. That's in response to the "is it better to be with her 100% of the time vs. 50/50" and also because if you actually separate when she's 12 then she can be on her own a bit more easily if your schedule requires some late nights or early mornings.

As to the rest - I think there's risk either way. My husband has also been verbally and emotionally abusive. I wish I had left when my kids were small quite honestly. The truth is I was ashamed, not brave enough, and there was always just enough light at the end up the tunnel that he would change so I stayed. I think both of my kids (now teens) somewhat understand - in fact, one has told me I'm in an impossible situation and the other acknowledged that a divorce would have been hard - but I don't think I will ever feel like I did right by them. It gnaws at me all the time. On the other hand I also don't know how I would have handled a call from them begging for help/me to get them during their father's custody time and me having to tell them I couldn't come. And that's a scenario I am pretty certain would have happened, since it did happen once when they were with him on a trip alone.

Basically it sucks to not be able to give your children a functional childhood. I think we are all trying our best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you the OP who posted about needing to board her dog when leaving with her daughter?

No, we don't have pets beside a beta fish, thank goodness.

Why did you write this? “ She sobbed in the closet with the dog the night he did it and has been quiet all week”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be very careful with this. With a man like this he can be highly manipulative and could turn it around so he gets her to not want to be with YOU, or he claims parental alienation if you attempt to influence her to not be with him. The die is cast, he is already her father. IMO it is sometimes best to support her as she gradually figures things out for herself about who her dad is.

Thanks. I’m being crazy cautious and even as I work through how this split will work, I’m being obsessive about making sure that he is offered more than equal time to be with her, to be in the house, take her to activities, etc. And at the same time she’s saying stuff to me that she’s afraid of how he’ll act this time or that she is dreading him driving her to practice or whatever. I probably need specific legal guidance but I worry that even validating her fears could be used against me as alienation ammo. And at the same time, I’m legit afraid for her to be with him if I’m not there, because he is moody and angry and unpredictable.

Ugh, im so ssorry. Getting into the nitty gritty, what is his schedule, how often is he home, what is your version of protecting her? I do think it's big that if you're still married, if he's being that way you can up and take her shopping and he can't do anything, if you're divorced she has no choice but to sit with him and take the abuse.

My dad was like that and my mom would take me to sit at Burger King for hours to get away from him. They divorced and nothing is as great as the peace we felt in our home alone, but that was in the days where the primary parent got custody and I only had to see him a few hours on the weekends where he generally took me to a movie and to see his parents so the only bad time was in the car alone. Living with him 50% of the time would have been torture.

Re: his schedule- he travels erratically for work. Some months it will be two international trips that span sat/sun through Friday. Some months it will be 2-3 shorter trips that go Mon-Thurs or Tues-Fri. His office hours start as early as 6 am or go as late as 7 pm depending on the day and which teams in which time zone he’s talking to.

In other words, his schedule is very erratic and inflexible and I worry that even in divorce I’d be forced to flex around him to keep my DD’s life stable.

I had a similar situation post divorce. If you are doing right by your child, you’d accommodate his schedule anyway, even if it is unfair to you. His work is just as supportive for her livelihood as yours is. Be the bigger person, it is a payoff for your child and often the court sees that and asjusts time accordingly. Also, 50/50 over a calendar year can look very different for different families.

The question you need to look through the lens of with all decisions is, “what is in the best interest (as defined by the state) of the child”? If it is in her best interest to be with one parent a little more during the school year, or to supplement child caregiving services, location, etc. Some people want 50/50, many are fine with 60/40 or 70/30. Custody time can always change.

I hear what you're saying. But at the same time, in the absence of infinite alimony, which isn't a thing as far as I know, I would need to be able to return to a more intense job to support me and DD. DH's inflexible schedule is one reason I had to step back from my career- there aren't any jobs I know of that would be ok with arriving late and leaving early. I don't know how I could sustain a career that would keep me going through old age if I was still flexing around his erratic travel while doing everything at home.

NP - will your husband oppose/resist you ramping up your work schedule now? If he won't then I'd work on doing that now and perhaps wait to actually separate and divorce. That's in response to the "is it better to be with her 100% of the time vs. 50/50" and also because if you actually separate when she's 12 then she can be on her own a bit more easily if your schedule requires some late nights or early mornings.

As to the rest - I think there's risk either way. My husband has also been verbally and emotionally abusive. I wish I had left when my kids were small quite honestly. The truth is I was ashamed, not brave enough, and there was always just enough light at the end up the tunnel that he would change so I stayed. I think both of my kids (now teens) somewhat understand - in fact, one has told me I'm in an impossible situation and the other acknowledged that a divorce would have been hard - but I don't think I will ever feel like I did right by them. It gnaws at me all the time. On the other hand I also don't know how I would have handled a call from them begging for help/me to get them during their father's custody time and me having to tell them I couldn't come. And that's a scenario I am pretty certain would have happened, since it did happen once when they were with him on a trip alone.

Basically it sucks to not be able to give your children a functional childhood. I think we are all trying our best.

Yes, I am currently in a parent-track job because he deliberately undermined my trajectory. He had agreed that it would be “my turn” to double down on work, but then would disappear at 6 am on a day he had promised to do dropoff when I had a 7 am call, or would schedule a work trip for a week when I needed to host clients for a dinner and he had promised to be home. Eventually I learned to not plant things around his schedule and to find babysitters where and when I could, but the impact of not having a true partner making reciprocal sacrifices was a big one. Now that DD is getting older and is doing a sport with older kids, some who are driving, I may be able to take advantage of more job opportunities but I’ll never get back the time I lost when acceleration would have been really fruitful.

I feel the same way you do about glimpsing the light and thinking maybe it would be ok, but then realizing what a mess I’m in. I’ve started to tell friends after starting this thread because I think it will give me some accountability for my choices as well as protection/documentation depending on where things go.

My biggest fear is getting a call from DD when she’s with DH begging for help or for me to get her. She isn’t even old enough for a phone and it’s terrifying to imagine her alone and getting screamed at or worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you the OP who posted about needing to board her dog when leaving with her daughter?

No, we don't have pets beside a beta fish, thank goodness.

Why did you write this? “ She sobbed in the closet with the dog the night he did it and has been quiet all week”

OP. I’m not the beta fish PP.