Spin off: Young Marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is men? Most women I know would have been happy to settle down earlier, but the men were chasing tail and unwilling to commit. The exceptions being Southern, Midwestern, or religious men, many of whom were locked up by college graduation.

You are basically saying the men exist but a subset of women aren’t interested in them… and then suggesting the problem is men anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

Yes but to me feminism would also make sure that the stay at home parent”s contributions to the household are given equal weight at the working parent. That usually isnt the case either from a respect from society point of view or monetarily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

Yes but to me feminism would also make sure that the stay at home parent”s contributions to the household are given equal weight at the working parent. That usually isnt the case either from a respect from society point of view or monetarily.

That perspective of equal weight is between the couple in question.

[Anonymous]

You are also suggesting a lot of this stuff is a choice when it isn’t. I married my DH at 30, but I had I married any of my boyfriends in my 20’s (not DH) I would have been so screwed. I also didn’t meet the “right” person until DH- that’s when everything clicked. We always say if we had met earlier it probably wouldn’t have worked out because he was at a point in his career where he was working 16 hour days at work and didn’t have time to invest in a relationship. When we started dating and settled down he was more secure in his career and ready to devote time to a relationship. None of this was about forcing a choice, it was living life and then doing what felt right when opportunities presented themselves.

[Anonymous]

Now that I’m in my 40s I have the opposite take.

I think marriage and kids is mostly a scam to convince women to provide unpaid labor.

My life would have been better staying single and keeping my high earning job. I’ve sacrificed my body, sanity, career and income for kids and a husband. Not worth it.

When women actually earn money and can live independently they don’t want to get married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

[Anonymous]

Ultimately, the human experience is varied. You can take any path and find people who made it through with flying colors and others that fell along the way.

We married at 23, just celebrated 20 years with 3 kids ranging from 7 to 14. A little luck along the way, with one spouse as SAH for past 12 years, and things have been great. Not perfect, but wouldn’t change a thing other than perhaps having one or two more kids.

Met at school in Texas where this path was more common for millennials. It has worked for us, our values and our personalities, doesn’t mean it would have worked for others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Fair point.

I lifted up trad wife propaganda, because that’s a very specific alt-right movement that has nothing to do with women making holistic choices, and it’s 100% about dismantling everything that feminism should be. The ability to choose to work or stay home or run off and join the circus is feminism.

Usually “lifted up” means to promote or propagate. Just fyi.

A synonym of “lifted up” is bring up, which is clearly the context in this discussion. But thanks for your feedback.

That’s not correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

But not a feminist choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

Yes but to me feminism would also make sure that the stay at home parent”s contributions to the household are given equal weight at the working parent. That usually isnt the case either from a respect from society point of view or monetarily.

That perspective of equal weight is between the couple in question.

That’s not enough. It needs to be codified financially and legally. Women sink into poverty very quickly upon divorce or widowhood when they have always depended on a man for financial support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Making sacrifices and compromises is just part of being inna relationship. It’s not a punishment or a setback.

Honestly, and there is no way to say this without sounding snarky, but I think the fundamental disconnect between women who think marrying young is good (or even just fine) and those who think it’s some life-ruining mistake is maturity. You may have not been mature enough to commit to something or someone beyond your own immediate desires when you were early to mid 20s, and that’s okay. It makes sense for you to wait to get married. Other people don’t see life that way, and for them it makes sense to marry when you know you’re with someone you want to be married to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Making sacrifices and compromises is just part of being inna relationship. It’s not a punishment or a setback.

Honestly, and there is no way to say this without sounding snarky, but I think the fundamental disconnect between women who think marrying young is good (or even just fine) and those who think it’s some life-ruining mistake is maturity. You may have not been mature enough to commit to something or someone beyond your own immediate desires when you were early to mid 20s, and that’s okay. It makes sense for you to wait to get married. Other people don’t see life that way, and for them it makes sense to marry when you know you’re with someone you want to be married to.

But it takes maturity to know you’re not mature enough to commit, so….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

Yes but to me feminism would also make sure that the stay at home parent”s contributions to the household are given equal weight at the working parent. That usually isnt the case either from a respect from society point of view or monetarily.

That perspective of equal weight is between the couple in question.

That’s not enough. It needs to be codified financially and legally. Women sink into poverty very quickly upon divorce or widowhood when they have always depended on a man for financial support.

Sorry, are you 15 years old? You remind me of the people pointing out that fat people are fat because you’re so “concerned about their health”. Mind your own business and stop pretending that you care about SAHMs for any other reason than your own insecure need to judge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Life has trade offs. How is this news? But just like there is a cost to getting married young, there is a very real benefit to marrying a good person and having children younger.

I married at 23 and got my JD while married. DH is the one who made sacrifices for my career including putting me through law school. I am very introverted and my spouse has been the one who initiates travel and socializing. We make each other’s lives richer which I guess you consider “playing house.” I’ll take it and not begrudge other women their choices. Getting married to a decent person at ANY age is not a sure thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Making sacrifices and compromises is just part of being inna relationship. It’s not a punishment or a setback.

Honestly, and there is no way to say this without sounding snarky, but I think the fundamental disconnect between women who think marrying young is good (or even just fine) and those who think it’s some life-ruining mistake is maturity. You may have not been mature enough to commit to something or someone beyond your own immediate desires when you were early to mid 20s, and that’s okay. It makes sense for you to wait to get married. Other people don’t see life that way, and for them it makes sense to marry when you know you’re with someone you want to be married to.

But it takes maturity to know you’re not mature enough to commit, so….

Sure, maturity exists on a spectrum I suppose. Some young people who get married are immature, some older people who get married are immature.

My post is more a reaction to the reasons being offered up here: but OMG what about tRaVeL?! For example.