Spin off: Young Marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now that I’m in my 40s I have the opposite take.

I think marriage and kids is mostly a scam to convince women to provide unpaid labor.

My life would have been better staying single and keeping my high earning job. I’ve sacrificed my body, sanity, career and income for kids and a husband. Not worth it.

When women actually earn money and can live independently they don’t want to get married.

If women don’t want children this is all true. But the majority of women will bat children at some point. And children are better raised married in a two parent household. And that’s our problem as women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that I’m in my 40s I have the opposite take.

I think marriage and kids is mostly a scam to convince women to provide unpaid labor.

My life would have been better staying single and keeping my high earning job. I’ve sacrificed my body, sanity, career and income for kids and a husband. Not worth it.

When women actually earn money and can live independently they don’t want to get married.

If women don’t want children this is all true. But the majority of women will bat children at some point. And children are better raised married in a two parent household. And that’s our problem as women.

Raise kids with your BFF! You have one, she has the other. Boom. 2 kid 2 parent home.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Making sacrifices and compromises is just part of being inna relationship. It’s not a punishment or a setback.

Honestly, and there is no way to say this without sounding snarky, but I think the fundamental disconnect between women who think marrying young is good (or even just fine) and those who think it’s some life-ruining mistake is maturity. You may have not been mature enough to commit to something or someone beyond your own immediate desires when you were early to mid 20s, and that’s okay. It makes sense for you to wait to get married. Other people don’t see life that way, and for them it makes sense to marry when you know you’re with someone you want to be married to.

Was it maturity, or was it that I was investing in my career? Because now I have a successful career with flexible hours and a large retirement account. I don’t see how I could have spent two years working in London and worked long hours while married. For me, getting married young would have meant putting all my eggs in one basket.

I am from an area where women marry young and outside of one doctor, I don’t know any of the women who still have successful careers. They have all either stayed home or had middling careers since they graduated college. Because they married young and their life became about supporting their husband in various ways instead of focusing on their own life.

It seems like the women I grew up with didn’t realize it’s a big world and they could forge their own path. They thought their only option was to hitch their wagon to a man.

One of the most successful women I know got pregnant our senior year of college. She married the summer before medical school and is a happily married doctor decades later.

I know another pediatrician mom of four who married at 28.

Multiple friends of ours married right out of law school and are working parents and together still today. Again, married mid 20s.

It’s odd to me that you don’t know any women with careers who married in their 20s.

Did she have family money? Getting knocked up and continuing on to medical school is highly unusual.

No

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Making sacrifices and compromises is just part of being inna relationship. It’s not a punishment or a setback.

Honestly, and there is no way to say this without sounding snarky, but I think the fundamental disconnect between women who think marrying young is good (or even just fine) and those who think it’s some life-ruining mistake is maturity. You may have not been mature enough to commit to something or someone beyond your own immediate desires when you were early to mid 20s, and that’s okay. It makes sense for you to wait to get married. Other people don’t see life that way, and for them it makes sense to marry when you know you’re with someone you want to be married to.

But it takes maturity to know you’re not mature enough to commit, so….

Sure, maturity exists on a spectrum I suppose. Some young people who get married are immature, some older people who get married are immature.

My post is more a reaction to the reasons being offered up here: but OMG what about tRaVeL?! For example.

The tRaVeL you mention -- for me -- isn't some weekend trips to the Bahamas or an all inclusive in Tulum. The kind of travel that shaped me and my friends is the kind that pushes personal comfort zones and develops a kind of independence that's really hard to do in the same way when you're at home.

I'm talking about stuff like working abroad, long term backpacking, Peace Corps, etc.

Women often move into a caretaking role leading up to marriage and it only gets way more intense. I think 20-something women benefit from putting themselves and their preferences and values first for a period of time before they get subsumed into marriage and kids.

Most people aren’t long time backpacking or doing the peace corps regardless of when or if they marry. Never had the desire to and don’t regret not doing it, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Making sacrifices and compromises is just part of being inna relationship. It’s not a punishment or a setback.

Honestly, and there is no way to say this without sounding snarky, but I think the fundamental disconnect between women who think marrying young is good (or even just fine) and those who think it’s some life-ruining mistake is maturity. You may have not been mature enough to commit to something or someone beyond your own immediate desires when you were early to mid 20s, and that’s okay. It makes sense for you to wait to get married. Other people don’t see life that way, and for them it makes sense to marry when you know you’re with someone you want to be married to.

But it takes maturity to know you’re not mature enough to commit, so….

Sure, maturity exists on a spectrum I suppose. Some young people who get married are immature, some older people who get married are immature.

My post is more a reaction to the reasons being offered up here: but OMG what about tRaVeL?! For example.

The tRaVeL you mention -- for me -- isn't some weekend trips to the Bahamas or an all inclusive in Tulum. The kind of travel that shaped me and my friends is the kind that pushes personal comfort zones and develops a kind of independence that's really hard to do in the same way when you're at home.

I'm talking about stuff like working abroad, long term backpacking, Peace Corps, etc.

Women often move into a caretaking role leading up to marriage and it only gets way more intense. I think 20-something women benefit from putting themselves and their preferences and values first for a period of time before they get subsumed into marriage and kids.

Most people aren’t long time backpacking or doing the peace corps regardless of when or if they marry. Never had the desire to and don’t regret not doing it, either.

The real barrier to travel is having kids, not getting married. As long as you don't have kids, married couples can live in much the same way as they did before they were married. Life doesn't really have to change until there is a baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t want to hijack the early 20s marriage trend thread but as someone who met my husband at 30 and was married with a baby by 34, I WISH we’d met 10 years sooner.

Raised in a major liberal city on a coast and ended up in the Midwest and I feel like so much of what my generation- millennial - was sold in that environment is absolute BS. As a girl in that environment I was raised to be independent and dating for marriage was not culturally cool. Friends all prioritized having a good time and while people did pursue education and careers, the idea that marriage was something to plan for and intentionally seek out was looked down upon. Wanting to be a SAHM was seen as foolish and waste of education and careers.

And FWIW I come from a 2-parent still married household, so had a solid example.

When I moved to where I’m at now, it was culturally VERY different and wanting to be a wife and mother was seen as totally acceptable and normal.

When I talk to my friends - late 30s/mid 40s- many are now realizing that they may have missed their window for marriage that includes bio kids…or they’re rushing to find ANY guy and it’s slim pickings. This is across all racial and social groups. Women that are beautiful and accomplished are realizing that the “good guys” - kind, considerate, thoughtful- are paired off or returning to availability after marriage and divorce, which brings it’s own sets of issues.

It makes me feel like we were sold a bad bill of goods. Go to college have a career, live life independently, date around, and then eventually find a man but don’t rush, don’t make being a wife and mom your whole personality. Don’t settle down too young because you’ll miss out on having fun.

Except…there’s nothing that I did in my 20s that was worth doing that I wouldn’t have had a good time with, with my DH. I was complete and happy before I met my DH, but life with my family is the best thing I could have ever done.

I was a homeowner and business owner before marriage, I’d traveled, so it’s not like my life was boring or sad…but I feel like there is definitely a narrative in progressive/liberal areas that having a family somehow takes away from all of that. Meanwhile being married and a mom has created a foundation/focus that I definitely didn’t have before. Even as a type A overachiever.

Because of when I met DH we’re likely one and done on the kids front, which I’m ok with I only really wanted one, but do wish we’d had more time together as a couple before becoming parents…because there are some things that only make sense to do when you’re in your 20s before you’re a parent.

Meanwhile a bunch of my friends will probably never end up with marriages and families they want. Or will settle for situations that they don’t want to become moms.

I’m still a progressive, absolutely support women creating the lives they want for themselves whether that includes marriage and kids or not. Young women should absolutely secure solid education, this isn’t some trad wife propaganda, and also I wish there was more balance in the discussions that are being had about trade offs. Time and fertility are finite resources.

Take your right wing bs somewhere else. This is a fundamental platform of Project 2025 to keep women stupid. You are troll.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

But not a feminist choice.

Just out of curiosity, is it a “feminist choice” to work 80 hours a week and pay a team of barely-speak-English, desperate immigrant women less than a living wage (but that’s the market, right?) to serve you and and your husband and raise your kids for you, all while depending on you financially?

No one's making you have children. If you can't do it ethically and in a socially responsible way, maybe don't have them?

Oh so now the only feminist and socially and ethical choice is to work a ton and have no children at all. And therefore, it’s fairly pointless to be married because let’s face it, you’ll end up in this forum crying about being cheated on or doing the cheating yourself eventually.

Wow, sounds like such an array of choices.

Wow, huge, irrelevant leaps from being childfree to being cheated on. I hope your children have a more logical mind than you do.

Is it absolutely NOT a leap to go from working 80 hours a week as a dual married couple and having your relationship (if you even have time for one at that point) completely fall apart in a variety of ways. Most commonly by cheating. Or maybe you are new to touring this forum?

[Anonymous]

Women are in a bind these days. It's a roll of the dice to have kids mid 30s+. Men have plenty of time for kids and a lot seem to have little idea of the time sensitive nature of women's fertility.
I knew I wanted to start having kids at 30 but also wanted to be married a few years before trying. I accomplished this by being open to older guys, DH is 8 years older and we met when I was 23. Obviously that can have its own set of issues but basically no mid 20s guys were looking to date for marriage. Even couples I knew who were college sweethearts ended up marrying later than I did because the guys weren't proposing until almost 30.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that I’m in my 40s I have the opposite take.

I think marriage and kids is mostly a scam to convince women to provide unpaid labor.

My life would have been better staying single and keeping my high earning job. I’ve sacrificed my body, sanity, career and income for kids and a husband. Not worth it.

When women actually earn money and can live independently they don’t want to get married.

I am a man and I agree with you. As a man though I also see marriage is a bad deal for us as well. I was married to a woman who did nothing for the the relationship. She didn't help raise the kids. She didn't help keep the house cleaned..she didn't help with cooking. She didn't want to take the kids to their activities. She didn't want to go to parents teachers conferences. She didn't want to take the kids to the doctors....I did all. I know it's rare for men to do it all but there are more and more of us out there in this situation.

True but it's interesting why you chose someone lazy verses someone who was a harder worker. Did you know you actively chose that? Was the marriage just based on looks? Because there are a lot of women who are very hard workers and still single. Women are employed at greater rates and do more childcare and eldercare. So why did you choose this type of woman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that I’m in my 40s I have the opposite take.

I think marriage and kids is mostly a scam to convince women to provide unpaid labor.

My life would have been better staying single and keeping my high earning job. I’ve sacrificed my body, sanity, career and income for kids and a husband. Not worth it.

When women actually earn money and can live independently they don’t want to get married.

I am a man and I agree with you. As a man though I also see marriage is a bad deal for us as well. I was married to a woman who did nothing for the the relationship. She didn't help raise the kids. She didn't help keep the house cleaned..she didn't help with cooking. She didn't want to take the kids to their activities. She didn't want to go to parents teachers conferences. She didn't want to take the kids to the doctors....I did all. I know it's rare for men to do it all but there are more and more of us out there in this situation.

True but it's interesting why you chose someone lazy verses someone who was a harder worker. Did you know you actively chose that? Was the marriage just based on looks? Because there are a lot of women who are very hard workers and still single. Women are employed at greater rates and do more childcare and eldercare. So why did you choose this type of woman?

My father fully admits he married my mom because she was beautiful and he was so enchanted by her looks that he ignored a lot of important issues like those above. It's wild how some men are so superficial, way moreso than women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that I’m in my 40s I have the opposite take.

I think marriage and kids is mostly a scam to convince women to provide unpaid labor.

My life would have been better staying single and keeping my high earning job. I’ve sacrificed my body, sanity, career and income for kids and a husband. Not worth it.

When women actually earn money and can live independently they don’t want to get married.

If women don’t want children this is all true. But the majority of women will bat children at some point. And children are better raised married in a two parent household. And that’s our problem as women.

Raise kids with your BFF! You have one, she has the other. Boom. 2 kid 2 parent home.

That’s not realistic for all women to do. But this is the pinpoint. If women don’t want kids, world is your oyster. If you want to experience motherhood, these issues still exist. So what the ideal for those women?

[Anonymous]

I married at 36 and had my last child at 45. Intellectually, I understand it would have been better to have them earlier. But looking back, I see that I absolutely freaking loved these ten to fifteen years before marriage when I had no one to please but myself, and could make all my decisions with no one but my own goals in mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Making sacrifices and compromises is just part of being inna relationship. It’s not a punishment or a setback.

Honestly, and there is no way to say this without sounding snarky, but I think the fundamental disconnect between women who think marrying young is good (or even just fine) and those who think it’s some life-ruining mistake is maturity. You may have not been mature enough to commit to something or someone beyond your own immediate desires when you were early to mid 20s, and that’s okay. It makes sense for you to wait to get married. Other people don’t see life that way, and for them it makes sense to marry when you know you’re with someone you want to be married to.

But it takes maturity to know you’re not mature enough to commit, so….

Sure, maturity exists on a spectrum I suppose. Some young people who get married are immature, some older people who get married are immature.

My post is more a reaction to the reasons being offered up here: but OMG what about tRaVeL?! For example.

The tRaVeL you mention -- for me -- isn't some weekend trips to the Bahamas or an all inclusive in Tulum. The kind of travel that shaped me and my friends is the kind that pushes personal comfort zones and develops a kind of independence that's really hard to do in the same way when you're at home.

I'm talking about stuff like working abroad, long term backpacking, Peace Corps, etc.

Women often move into a caretaking role leading up to marriage and it only gets way more intense. I think 20-something women benefit from putting themselves and their preferences and values first for a period of time before they get subsumed into marriage and kids.

Most people aren’t long time backpacking or doing the peace corps regardless of when or if they marry. Never had the desire to and don’t regret not doing it, either.

The real barrier to travel is having kids, not getting married. As long as you don't have kids, married couples can live in much the same way as they did before they were married. Life doesn't really have to change until there is a baby.

No they can’t because now all decisions need to have input from both people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that I’m in my 40s I have the opposite take.

I think marriage and kids is mostly a scam to convince women to provide unpaid labor.

My life would have been better staying single and keeping my high earning job. I’ve sacrificed my body, sanity, career and income for kids and a husband. Not worth it.

When women actually earn money and can live independently they don’t want to get married.

If women don’t want children this is all true. But the majority of women will bat children at some point. And children are better raised married in a two parent household. And that’s our problem as women.

I don't think the majority of women want children. I think the majority y of women are conditioned to believe that's what they want. As for 2 parents and married well that largely depends on the parents and the culture the children are being raised in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to feel like you, when the marriage was going well.

15 years into our relationship my DH had a mental breakdown and became very volatile, angry, and abusive. Tried a bunch of therapy and it didn’t work. Divorce. Due to having built my career beforehand, I was able to buy him out of the house and I know who I am without the relationship because we married when I was 30 and not 20.

I am glad I spent that time in investing in myself. My education gave me a career and the means to make a home independently of my marriage. My travel and time with friends let me build up a network that has been rock solid and there for me through this whole ordeal. And I know I was fine and happy before this and will be fine and happy now. If I had done the traditional route I would’ve been screwed.

I met my husband at 21. Failing to understand why you think that precludes a woman from an education, career, travel or building up friend networks, all of which I have. It’s this mentality that a partnership prevents these dimensions of life that is holding young women back.

Because you’re less mobile when you’re married since you can’t live in two different place and often, one spouse’s job takes precedent. Similar story with social life. You have to sacrifice where you travel to since now you have to compromise with a spouse. You often end up purchasing real estate, which may be a good thing financially, but it takes priority over travel and a social life.

Women provide a lot of unpaid labor for men and when you get married most women take on more unpaid labor. As a result there is less time for travel, education, socializing etc.

Anecdotally, life changed for my friends who married young. They are relatively educated but once they got married everything seemed to change and it became about playing house.

Making sacrifices and compromises is just part of being inna relationship. It’s not a punishment or a setback.

Honestly, and there is no way to say this without sounding snarky, but I think the fundamental disconnect between women who think marrying young is good (or even just fine) and those who think it’s some life-ruining mistake is maturity. You may have not been mature enough to commit to something or someone beyond your own immediate desires when you were early to mid 20s, and that’s okay. It makes sense for you to wait to get married. Other people don’t see life that way, and for them it makes sense to marry when you know you’re with someone you want to be married to.

But it takes maturity to know you’re not mature enough to commit, so….

Sure, maturity exists on a spectrum I suppose. Some young people who get married are immature, some older people who get married are immature.

My post is more a reaction to the reasons being offered up here: but OMG what about tRaVeL?! For example.

The tRaVeL you mention -- for me -- isn't some weekend trips to the Bahamas or an all inclusive in Tulum. The kind of travel that shaped me and my friends is the kind that pushes personal comfort zones and develops a kind of independence that's really hard to do in the same way when you're at home.

I'm talking about stuff like working abroad, long term backpacking, Peace Corps, etc.

Women often move into a caretaking role leading up to marriage and it only gets way more intense. I think 20-something women benefit from putting themselves and their preferences and values first for a period of time before they get subsumed into marriage and kids.

Most people aren’t long time backpacking or doing the peace corps regardless of when or if they marry. Never had the desire to and don’t regret not doing it, either.

The real barrier to travel is having kids, not getting married. As long as you don't have kids, married couples can live in much the same way as they did before they were married. Life doesn't really have to change until there is a baby.

No they can’t because now all decisions need to have input from both people.

The vast, vast majority of people are already getting input from their bf/gf and then their fiance well before they get married. If they don't like that input and it doesn't match their views, then the shouldn't get married. The act of getting married has less of an impact than being in a relationship.