Spin off: Young Marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a millennial from big west coast city and I dated for marriage since I was 16. What did that get me?

I didn't marry until 31. I was cheated on a BUNCH. Strung along, the whole 9.

People are still juvenile children until they reach age 26.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a millennial from big west coast city and I dated for marriage since I was 16. What did that get me?

I didn't marry until 31. I was cheated on a BUNCH. Strung along, the whole 9.

This sounds like your picker was broken. If you were really dating for marriage at 16 yo, then you likely came across as needy, leading you to pick men who thought they could cheat on you or strong you along because you needed them and wouldn't leave.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

But not a feminist choice.

Just out of curiosity, is it a “feminist choice” to work 80 hours a week and pay a team of barely-speak-English, desperate immigrant women less than a living wage (but that’s the market, right?) to serve you and and your husband and raise your kids for you, all while depending on you financially?

No one's making you have children. If you can't do it ethically and in a socially responsible way, maybe don't have them?

Oh so now the only feminist and socially and ethical choice is to work a ton and have no children at all. And therefore, it’s fairly pointless to be married because let’s face it, you’ll end up in this forum crying about being cheated on or doing the cheating yourself eventually.

Wow, sounds like such an array of choices.

Wow, huge, irrelevant leaps from being childfree to being cheated on. I hope your children have a more logical mind than you do.

Is it absolutely NOT a leap to go from working 80 hours a week as a dual married couple and having your relationship (if you even have time for one at that point) completely fall apart in a variety of ways. Most commonly by cheating. Or maybe you are new to touring this forum?

Most people are not cheaters. You have a warped perspective from spending far too much time on here. Maybe you should get a job.

Maybe you should get a lobotomy.

You know, me telling you to get a job is in no way as offensive as you telling me to get a lobotomy. Those were performed on women when they were being mouthy and "out of line." But I guess this is what I should expect from someone with such reactionary views of a woman's place. At home, kowtowing to her husband, being a good little wifey so he continues to support her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to say that different people don't have different experiences, but the OP doesn't reflect my experience at all. I'm from the midwest, but went to college in California and have lived on one coast or the other my entire adult life. I'm in my mid-40s now.

Almost all of my women friends (~80-90%, I would guess) are married with kids. Almost all of us got married and had kids in our 30s. And almost all of us have advanced degrees, most of us have one or more degrees from an elite (i.e. T20) school. These are people living in different places across the country, but mostly big metro areas that people are saying are hostile to families (DC, SF, NYC, Seattle, etc).

I never had the sense that marriage and kids were discouraged or looked down upon. I wouldn't say were "dating to get married" in our 20s, but marriage was not anathema.

I guess the point of this post is to ask whether it really is common for people to experience marriage being discouraged and frowned upon. It doesn't match mine at all, so asking.

Yeah, I agree. I’m from the same general area, but grew up and went to college in NYC. I’m a little younger in my late 30s and pretty much all my friends from high school and college are either recently married with kids (like me) or getting married, pregnant, etc. I never felt like it was discouraged and there were a few people in my circle who got married mid- to late- 20s and had kids soon after and we were all very excited for them and went to their weddings and baby showers. I really don’t feel like weddings and babies were seen as horrible in any way, just something that we didn’t have to do right away unless we found the right person and wanted to.

To add to my previous post, I think a lot of us were freaking out a little bit when our first friends and colleagues started getting married in their 20s. We wanted the same thing, at least eventually. But the cultural expectation wasn’t that you needed to get married or you were an old maid, so we didn’t settle for someone we didn’t absolutely want to be with just because we felt that the clock was ticking. My husband is from the Midwest and a lot of his high school friends seem to have rushed to get married once the first few high school or college sweethearts did. A few of them definitely settled, especially the women. Many of them are now divorced with older kids and getting remarried in their late 30s and 40s, and several of them have been pregnant at the same time as me having my first because they want to have at least one child with their new wife or husband, who also has older kids. I think the important thing is to jump on it when you find a person you click with, whether it’s in your early 20s or later. And it doesn’t do anyone any good to settle. I’d rather be alone.

This is so weird. You don't have to have kids with everyone you marry. Focus on your existing children. People are so selfish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to say that different people don't have different experiences, but the OP doesn't reflect my experience at all. I'm from the midwest, but went to college in California and have lived on one coast or the other my entire adult life. I'm in my mid-40s now.

Almost all of my women friends (~80-90%, I would guess) are married with kids. Almost all of us got married and had kids in our 30s. And almost all of us have advanced degrees, most of us have one or more degrees from an elite (i.e. T20) school. These are people living in different places across the country, but mostly big metro areas that people are saying are hostile to families (DC, SF, NYC, Seattle, etc).

I never had the sense that marriage and kids were discouraged or looked down upon. I wouldn't say were "dating to get married" in our 20s, but marriage was not anathema.

I guess the point of this post is to ask whether it really is common for people to experience marriage being discouraged and frowned upon. It doesn't match mine at all, so asking.

Yeah, I agree. I’m from the same general area, but grew up and went to college in NYC. I’m a little younger in my late 30s and pretty much all my friends from high school and college are either recently married with kids (like me) or getting married, pregnant, etc. I never felt like it was discouraged and there were a few people in my circle who got married mid- to late- 20s and had kids soon after and we were all very excited for them and went to their weddings and baby showers. I really don’t feel like weddings and babies were seen as horrible in any way, just something that we didn’t have to do right away unless we found the right person and wanted to.

To add to my previous post, I think a lot of us were freaking out a little bit when our first friends and colleagues started getting married in their 20s. We wanted the same thing, at least eventually. But the cultural expectation wasn’t that you needed to get married or you were an old maid, so we didn’t settle for someone we didn’t absolutely want to be with just because we felt that the clock was ticking. My husband is from the Midwest and a lot of his high school friends seem to have rushed to get married once the first few high school or college sweethearts did. A few of them definitely settled, especially the women. Many of them are now divorced with older kids and getting remarried in their late 30s and 40s, and several of them have been pregnant at the same time as me having my first because they want to have at least one child with their new wife or husband, who also has older kids. I think the important thing is to jump on it when you find a person you click with, whether it’s in your early 20s or later. And it doesn’t do anyone any good to settle. I’d rather be alone.

This is so weird. You don't have to have kids with everyone you marry. Focus on your existing children. People are so selfish.

I'm the person who posted that and I agree. I think it's messed up for the older children. But many of these people seemed really upset about their experience raising their older children so they want a "do over" with a partner they actually like. At least the reasoning I see from afar. It's selfish. A lot of them also had A LOT of help from parents for childcare, so now they want to do it on their own terms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:meh. I met my DH when I was 30 and he 36. We had our first when I was 34, second at almost 38. They are teens now, one in college.

Neither DH nor I were ready to be married or have kids in our 20s.

I have told my kids (DS and DD) to not get married too early, or at the least, don't have kids too early. Live your life and have a career first, including building up your finances. Once kids come, your life as you know it is over.

+100000

You have your entire life to focus on family.

Now that I’ve had two kids I can’t imagine sacrificing myself like this in my 20s.

Honestly I don’t consider anything about having kids and raising them to be a sacrifice. I actually sometimes look back on my young adult life before kids and wonder what the heck I did all day.

I’m not saying I love my kids more, but I genuinely enjoy everything about being a mom. I love carting them all over the place, I love watching their games and concerts, I love playing with them and talking to them and teaching them.

Trivia night at the bar or a week in some rundown European hostel doesn’t compare.

All that to say, there isn’t one right way to live your life. Everyone has different priorities and different timelines. Just run your own race and stop judging everyone else.

You sound like you never had a job you loved. Some of us did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Now that I’m in my 40s I have the opposite take.

I think marriage and kids is mostly a scam to convince women to provide unpaid labor.

My life would have been better staying single and keeping my high earning job. I’ve sacrificed my body, sanity, career and income for kids and a husband. Not worth it.

When women actually earn money and can live independently they don’t want to get married.

If women don’t want children this is all true. But the majority of women will bat children at some point. And children are better raised married in a two parent household. And that’s our problem as women.

I don't think the majority of women want children. I think the majority y of women are conditioned to believe that's what they want. As for 2 parents and married well that largely depends on the parents and the culture the children are being raised in.

So your argument is that there is no biological urge to procreate and continue the survival of the human race. Sure.

Agreed. I’m mid 50s now and more content every day with my childlessness - but I had a raging desire for a child from puberty onward until the change of life.

The desire did not outweigh my fear of bringing a child into the world to have a bad father - I’d had one myself and was determined not to subject another child to such a childhood. If I’d met a man who was really good father material I’d have happily had kids.

But the change of life revealed to me how much of it is just biology. Now that the biological drive is shut off, my rational self is very grateful for the tens of thousands of hours I didn’t spend housekeeping child caring husband wrangling etc.

I earned multiple degrees and pursued multiple career paths, enjoyed successes and failures alike, followed my dreams and sometimes my whims and never had to consult with anyone or worry about the impact on anyone other than me. I know I’m supposed to be miserable and lonely but I’m not - it’s okay if you want to tell yourself I am though. Whatever makes your own burdens easier to bear.

But isn't all of it "just biology"? Intelligence, ambition, desire for adventure, etc. are all just the products of individual brain chemistry. They're no more real than the desire for children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:meh. I met my DH when I was 30 and he 36. We had our first when I was 34, second at almost 38. They are teens now, one in college.

Neither DH nor I were ready to be married or have kids in our 20s.

I have told my kids (DS and DD) to not get married too early, or at the least, don't have kids too early. Live your life and have a career first, including building up your finances. Once kids come, your life as you know it is over.

+100000

You have your entire life to focus on family.

Now that I’ve had two kids I can’t imagine sacrificing myself like this in my 20s.

Honestly I don’t consider anything about having kids and raising them to be a sacrifice. I actually sometimes look back on my young adult life before kids and wonder what the heck I did all day.

I’m not saying I love my kids more, but I genuinely enjoy everything about being a mom. I love carting them all over the place, I love watching their games and concerts, I love playing with them and talking to them and teaching them.

Trivia night at the bar or a week in some rundown European hostel doesn’t compare.

All that to say, there isn’t one right way to live your life. Everyone has different priorities and different timelines. Just run your own race and stop judging everyone else.

You sound like you never had a job you loved. Some of us did.

I very much enjoyed my job, actually. But did I love my job? Like I love my husband and I love my kids? Of course not!

If you honestly love your job more than you think you’d love your family, just don’t have a family. It’s not a requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:meh. I met my DH when I was 30 and he 36. We had our first when I was 34, second at almost 38. They are teens now, one in college.

Neither DH nor I were ready to be married or have kids in our 20s.

I have told my kids (DS and DD) to not get married too early, or at the least, don't have kids too early. Live your life and have a career first, including building up your finances. Once kids come, your life as you know it is over.

+100000

You have your entire life to focus on family.

Now that I’ve had two kids I can’t imagine sacrificing myself like this in my 20s.

Honestly I don’t consider anything about having kids and raising them to be a sacrifice. I actually sometimes look back on my young adult life before kids and wonder what the heck I did all day.

I’m not saying I love my kids more, but I genuinely enjoy everything about being a mom. I love carting them all over the place, I love watching their games and concerts, I love playing with them and talking to them and teaching them.

Trivia night at the bar or a week in some rundown European hostel doesn’t compare.

All that to say, there isn’t one right way to live your life. Everyone has different priorities and different timelines. Just run your own race and stop judging everyone else.

You sound like you never had a job you loved. Some of us did.

I very much enjoyed my job, actually. But did I love my job? Like I love my husband and I love my kids? Of course not!

If you honestly love your job more than you think you’d love your family, just don’t have a family. It’s not a requirement.

DP
I think everyone has diverse temperaments, desires and capabilities. So many posters here think their way is the only correct way to find success and happiness, which is ridiculous. People also change a ton throughout their lives and parents telling their kids not to have kids or at least wait, often change as they get older and switch to prodding their kids to hurry and reproduce. I have counseled my kids to focus on something and changed my mind with time. The thing about advising your kids is that they may follow it closely or go the exact opposite way and be even happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think your knee jerk rejection of trad wife contributes to how we got here.
I’m a Gen Xer and feminism used to be all about promoting CHOICES for women and not bashing one choice in favor of another.
But if a choice doesn’t work for you HEB it’s okay ti say that without the disclaimer that you aren’t a “trad wife” propagandist.

Sometimes you really can’t have it all. At least not at the same time. So it’s all about prioritizing g what’s important to you.

Choice feminism has always been BS. Feminism is the political, social, and economic equality of women. If that’s not what you want for yourself, fine, but don’t pretend that serving your husband while depending on him financially is a feminist act.

Nope. Feminism is defined by opening up possible life choices for women. If a man and woman team up and decide to allocate their marital income so the woman stays home, that’s a perfectly valid life choice.

But not a feminist choice.

Just out of curiosity, is it a “feminist choice” to work 80 hours a week and pay a team of barely-speak-English, desperate immigrant women less than a living wage (but that’s the market, right?) to serve you and and your husband and raise your kids for you, all while depending on you financially?

No one's making you have children. If you can't do it ethically and in a socially responsible way, maybe don't have them?

Oh so now the only feminist and socially and ethical choice is to work a ton and have no children at all. And therefore, it’s fairly pointless to be married because let’s face it, you’ll end up in this forum crying about being cheated on or doing the cheating yourself eventually.

Wow, sounds like such an array of choices.

Wow, huge, irrelevant leaps from being childfree to being cheated on. I hope your children have a more logical mind than you do.

Is it absolutely NOT a leap to go from working 80 hours a week as a dual married couple and having your relationship (if you even have time for one at that point) completely fall apart in a variety of ways. Most commonly by cheating. Or maybe you are new to touring this forum?

Most people are not cheaters. You have a warped perspective from spending far too much time on here. Maybe you should get a job.

Maybe you should get a lobotomy.

You know, me telling you to get a job is in no way as offensive as you telling me to get a lobotomy. Those were performed on women when they were being mouthy and "out of line." But I guess this is what I should expect from someone with such reactionary views of a woman's place. At home, kowtowing to her husband, being a good little wifey so he continues to support her.

Shut up moron. Here you are telling people to get a job (despite knowing nothing about them) when you are trolling the exact same site despite your super important career. And you were doing so on a Sunday, which is doubly moronic, although maybe you were busy pouring in your 80 hours of work this week. gosh you sound so fulfilled.

[Anonymous]

However you are clearly right. You shouldn’t need a lobotomy as it’s clear you’ve already had one.

[Anonymous]

It’s not trad wife, but….

Trad wife!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know an actual trad wife? They are a social media invention and you think any of your neighbors are actually living that life?

Maybe in Utah.

[Anonymous]

“Dating for marriage” sounds…creepy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Dating for marriage” sounds…creepy.

I agree, but I see it, and the people act more like they're going to a mutual interview.