college children and money

[Anonymous]

I think #2 is being a selfish, self-centered, naive, oblivious little baby. Yes he worked hard, great, but there are a LOT of factors in addition. He didn't earn his natural endowment of talent, it's happenstance that he didn't get an injury or illness that sidelined him, it's happenstance that he had a good team to play on and good coaches. It's happenstance that he had a good day in his sport the day the scout was visiting, or whatever-- athletic scholarships can be pretty arbitrary across similarly situated kids. Your son had a lot of good luck and support from others and you need to open his eyes to that. And YES, definitely claw back all of the money you invested in his sport, with the value of money over time.

No way would I give a young adult $350K for any reason at all. And especially someone who's showing such a lack of maturity. If he's fool enough to throw away a sibling relationship over this, the best gift you could give him is a big fat reality check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that DS#2 should get the money. School is what it is and when all grad schools are over then split the leftover equally or pass down for grandchildren. Kids should never have been brought into the funding discussion unless there was a certain cost that could not have been supported. And I say this as a person whose parents paid for my sister #1 law school and sister #2 medical school. In any event, nice problem to have!

So you’re saying hard work don’t matter? It is extremely hard to get an athletic scholarship.

The other child probably worked really hard in other ways.

But that didn’t translate into a scholarship. Results matter.

Eye roll. Athletic scholarships aren't the only kind of "results", and for a family with this much money saved, scholarships don't need to be a priority at all.

I'm sorry that OP's son is a spoiled baby who's willing to ruin his relationship with his brother over money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that DS#2 should get the money. School is what it is and when all grad schools are over then split the leftover equally or pass down for grandchildren. Kids should never have been brought into the funding discussion unless there was a certain cost that could not have been supported. And I say this as a person whose parents paid for my sister #1 law school and sister #2 medical school. In any event, nice problem to have!

So you’re saying hard work don’t matter? It is extremely hard to get an athletic scholarship.

OK..look at my scenario. #1 is a very casual student. He applied to mid tier schools and got merit aid at all of them. Choose one and tuition was similar to instate. #2 was a very focused student. MCPS magnet, 1600 SAT, internship at national lab. She got in to an Ivy full pay. Do I give the difference to #1 for coasting in school? I assume the athlete loved the sport and chose his path that lead to the scholarship. If the parents forced him to participate in order to pay for college, I guess that would be different.

[Anonymous]

So if a student chooses a less challenging college because it's providing them more aid, that student should get hundreds of thousands of dollars at the end? Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that DS#2 should get the money. School is what it is and when all grad schools are over then split the leftover equally or pass down for grandchildren. Kids should never have been brought into the funding discussion unless there was a certain cost that could not have been supported. And I say this as a person whose parents paid for my sister #1 law school and sister #2 medical school. In any event, nice problem to have!

So you’re saying hard work don’t matter? It is extremely hard to get an athletic scholarship.

OK..look at my scenario. #1 is a very casual student. He applied to mid tier schools and got merit aid at all of them. Choose one and tuition was similar to instate. #2 was a very focused student. MCPS magnet, 1600 SAT, internship at national lab. She got in to an Ivy full pay. Do I give the difference to #1 for coasting in school? I assume the athlete loved the sport and chose his path that lead to the scholarship. If the parents forced him to participate in order to pay for college, I guess that would be different.

We’re not talking about your kids.

[Anonymous]

Each child gets the share that was planned for them or what's left of their share. There is no transfer of one fund to the other. That would be terribly unfair, since there was no discussion prior to enrollment that a transfer might be a possibility should one of them receive a scholarship.

In the future, everyone needs to understand that big money questions need to be fully explored, and things need to be spelled out on paper. No verbal agreement that some then conveniently forget. Since it's family, and contracts are probably not enforceable, a written honor agreement should suffice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think #2 is being a selfish, self-centered, naive, oblivious little baby. Yes he worked hard, great, but there are a LOT of factors in addition. He didn't earn his natural endowment of talent, it's happenstance that he didn't get an injury or illness that sidelined him, it's happenstance that he had a good team to play on and good coaches. It's happenstance that he had a good day in his sport the day the scout was visiting, or whatever-- athletic scholarships can be pretty arbitrary across similarly situated kids. Your son had a lot of good luck and support from others and you need to open his eyes to that. And YES, definitely claw back all of the money you invested in his sport, with the value of money over time.

No way would I give a young adult $350K for any reason at all. And especially someone who's showing such a lack of maturity. If he's fool enough to throw away a sibling relationship over this, the best gift you could give him is a big fat reality check.

We are not athletic folks, but academic-minded ones. Isn't intellect also inborn talent? I think it is.
Both of OP's children demonstrated work ethic and resilience. They are both equally deserving from his description. They both need to be treated fairly, and if both were promised a certain sum, that sum needs to be available to them. Otherwise it means the parents went back on their word, and that's a betrayal that will permanently kill a relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think #2 is being a selfish, self-centered, naive, oblivious little baby. Yes he worked hard, great, but there are a LOT of factors in addition. He didn't earn his natural endowment of talent, it's happenstance that he didn't get an injury or illness that sidelined him, it's happenstance that he had a good team to play on and good coaches. It's happenstance that he had a good day in his sport the day the scout was visiting, or whatever-- athletic scholarships can be pretty arbitrary across similarly situated kids. Your son had a lot of good luck and support from others and you need to open his eyes to that. And YES, definitely claw back all of the money you invested in his sport, with the value of money over time.

No way would I give a young adult $350K for any reason at all. And especially someone who's showing such a lack of maturity. If he's fool enough to throw away a sibling relationship over this, the best gift you could give him is a big fat reality check.

We are not athletic folks, but academic-minded ones. Isn't intellect also inborn talent? I think it is.
Both of OP's children demonstrated work ethic and resilience. They are both equally deserving from his description. They both need to be treated fairly, and if both were promised a certain sum, that sum needs to be available to them. Otherwise it means the parents went back on their word, and that's a betrayal that will permanently kill a relationship.

I'm the PP and I totally agree. I will say having a kid in high level sports is a logistical and financial beat-down that high level academics *sometimes* isn't, but it really just depends. That's why keeping it the same is the way to go. It's just too hard to look back and pro-rate things.

And OP's #2 is being a dumbass and ruining his sibling relationship and that shouldn't be rewarded.

[Anonymous]

#2 sounds like an awful and entitled human.

Donate the remainder of his college fund to a scholarship program for young people who actually deserve it.

[Anonymous]

We paid for child #1 to go to grad school. Child #2 received a full scholarship and went to that school over one they preferred (both similar academically). We gave the money we saved to #2. Child #2 did not ask us to do this and we would have been unhappy if they had, but doing this as our choice, seemed fair to us given the sacrifice made by #2 to save us money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think #2 is being a selfish, self-centered, naive, oblivious little baby. Yes he worked hard, great, but there are a LOT of factors in addition. He didn't earn his natural endowment of talent, it's happenstance that he didn't get an injury or illness that sidelined him, it's happenstance that he had a good team to play on and good coaches. It's happenstance that he had a good day in his sport the day the scout was visiting, or whatever-- athletic scholarships can be pretty arbitrary across similarly situated kids. Your son had a lot of good luck and support from others and you need to open his eyes to that. And YES, definitely claw back all of the money you invested in his sport, with the value of money over time.

No way would I give a young adult $350K for any reason at all. And especially someone who's showing such a lack of maturity. If he's fool enough to throw away a sibling relationship over this, the best gift you could give him is a big fat reality check.

OP here and it is somewhat complicated.  We spent around 20k per year for DS #1 piano and violin activities such as lessons, competitions and cost of travel.  We spent about 25k per year for DS #2 with his sports activities.  DS #1 also has an 80K Steinway piano and 20K violin.  You can say that DS #1 had it better than DS #2.  As a dad, I am comfortable in giving DS #2 his share of the money 350K, probably more by the time he graduates from investment, because he receives the athletic scholarship for his hard work.  Unfortunately, DW doesn't think the same way and it is causing a rift between mother and son.  DS #1 does not have any issues with DS #2 getting that money.  Our family is very transparent about finances.

Btw, I do understand that getting an academic scholarship, even without room and board, is extremely hard; however, getting an athletic scholarship with free tuition, room/board, and stipend, is even harder, right?  There are not many of them available.

[Anonymous]

Paying for activities is different than giving a kid money he didn’t earn. What if someone in your family becomes disabled? What if you lose a house to a wildfire? What if he gets hurt and loses his scholarship?

I would treat the $350 K after graduation like a loan fund. If he wants to be an entrepreneur, he can borrow from the fund and pay it back. But, it’s your money and you saved it for the contingencies of your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that DS#2 should get the money. School is what it is and when all grad schools are over then split the leftover equally or pass down for grandchildren. Kids should never have been brought into the funding discussion unless there was a certain cost that could not have been supported. And I say this as a person whose parents paid for my sister #1 law school and sister #2 medical school. In any event, nice problem to have!

So you’re saying hard work don’t matter? It is extremely hard to get an athletic scholarship.

Well if you are keeping tabs, there is a good change the parents forked out a ton of $$$ for the sports over the years. Healthy parents don't keep tabs, we provide for each kid as needed within our family budget. One of my kids cost us a ton in ES/MS and early HS with tutoring for their learning disability. Paid OOP for two full neuropsychological evaluations. Kid had 2 phases of braces. Kid only cost ~$40K/year for college.

2nd kid did not need any tutoring or assistance, but did intensive dance for 10 years---by MS we were spending $10K+/year. Kid only had 1 phase of braces for 13 months---half the cost of the older kid. Their college is $80K+/year.
Both will have their education paid for, both will have assistance for grad school if/when they want to go. No, the money is not the kid's to just have. each kid is an individual and we provide for each as needed at various times in their life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think #2 is being a selfish, self-centered, naive, oblivious little baby. Yes he worked hard, great, but there are a LOT of factors in addition. He didn't earn his natural endowment of talent, it's happenstance that he didn't get an injury or illness that sidelined him, it's happenstance that he had a good team to play on and good coaches. It's happenstance that he had a good day in his sport the day the scout was visiting, or whatever-- athletic scholarships can be pretty arbitrary across similarly situated kids. Your son had a lot of good luck and support from others and you need to open his eyes to that. And YES, definitely claw back all of the money you invested in his sport, with the value of money over time.

No way would I give a young adult $350K for any reason at all. And especially someone who's showing such a lack of maturity. If he's fool enough to throw away a sibling relationship over this, the best gift you could give him is a big fat reality check.

OP here and it is somewhat complicated.  We spent around 20k per year for DS #1 piano and violin activities such as lessons, competitions and cost of travel.  We spent about 25k per year for DS #2 with his sports activities.  DS #1 also has an 80K Steinway piano and 20K violin.  You can say that DS #1 had it better than DS #2.  As a dad, I am comfortable in giving DS #2 his share of the money 350K, probably more by the time he graduates from investment, because he receives the athletic scholarship for his hard work.  Unfortunately, DW doesn't think the same way and it is causing a rift between mother and son.  DS #1 does not have any issues with DS #2 getting that money.  Our family is very transparent about finances.

Btw, I do understand that getting an academic scholarship, even without room and board, is extremely hard; however, getting an athletic scholarship with free tuition, room/board, and stipend, is even harder, right?  There are not many of them available.

Okay, so if you do time value of money on that $5K annual gap, that should really cut into the $350K.

The violin and piano are assets that hold value, it's not like you just spent that money on lessons and it'll never be recouped.

I do not think getting an athletic scholarship is necessarily harder than academic. And if you're talking about "reward for hard work", you need to take into account that there are lots of extrinsic factors, and that what matters is whether getting the scholarship was harder *for each specific child*, not in general.

Honestly you sound conflict-avoidant and like you want to give him the money just to make the fighting go away. And your DS#2 sounds like a selfish, entitled person who is foolish enough to let his feelings of entitlement to his parents' money come between him and his family. I would definitely not reward his behavior. And I do not think it's a good idea to give a young adult that much money at all, ever, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think #2 is being a selfish, self-centered, naive, oblivious little baby. Yes he worked hard, great, but there are a LOT of factors in addition. He didn't earn his natural endowment of talent, it's happenstance that he didn't get an injury or illness that sidelined him, it's happenstance that he had a good team to play on and good coaches. It's happenstance that he had a good day in his sport the day the scout was visiting, or whatever-- athletic scholarships can be pretty arbitrary across similarly situated kids. Your son had a lot of good luck and support from others and you need to open his eyes to that. And YES, definitely claw back all of the money you invested in his sport, with the value of money over time.

No way would I give a young adult $350K for any reason at all. And especially someone who's showing such a lack of maturity. If he's fool enough to throw away a sibling relationship over this, the best gift you could give him is a big fat reality check.

We are not athletic folks, but academic-minded ones. Isn't intellect also inborn talent? I think it is.
Both of OP's children demonstrated work ethic and resilience. They are both equally deserving from his description. They both need to be treated fairly, and if both were promised a certain sum, that sum needs to be available to them. Otherwise it means the parents went back on their word, and that's a betrayal that will permanently kill a relationship.

You have raised an ungrateful brat if they feel entitled to their college fund after college. They should be grateful that you saved enough to pay for college without debt and grad school. So unless the parents promised them "you have 350K in your 529, if it's not spent it is yours after college to do with as you please" it's not a betrayal.