School Shooting in Michigan. 3 Teens DEAD. 1 15-yr old suspect in custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the gun culture of the area complicated the matter for the school social worker. If guns are a past time/hobby for the family, it’s hard to say whether searching bullets during class is seriously problematic or more like searching to sports equipment wit switch games online during class (not ideal but NbD). Because the parents perceive their gun cultut as under threat, they don’t listen to any concerns that their son has an abnormal relationship with guns — plus it’s probably hard for the social workers to even gauge what is healthy or not.

+1

Agree, it is impossible to gauge the insanity.

This is a great point. Guns are such an big part of the culture there that the school would have to be careful. You know these crappy parents were ready to turn this into a 2a issue rather than looking at their kid and realizing he needed help.

No. All of this ignores the absolutely horrifying drawing and extremely disturbing language written on the drawing. If it were “just” the ammo search I could see your point, but it wasn’t.

Did the guidance counselor he saw on the Tuesday know about the bullet search on the Monday? He explained the drawing as part of a video game, the parents backed him up. Lots of kids his age play violent video games, so it really wouldn't be that surprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the gun culture of the area complicated the matter for the school social worker. If guns are a past time/hobby for the family, it’s hard to say whether searching bullets during class is seriously problematic or more like searching to sports equipment wit switch games online during class (not ideal but NbD). Because the parents perceive their gun cultut as under threat, they don’t listen to any concerns that their son has an abnormal relationship with guns — plus it’s probably hard for the social workers to even gauge what is healthy or not.

+1

Agree, it is impossible to gauge the insanity.

This is a great point. Guns are such an big part of the culture there that the school would have to be careful. You know these crappy parents were ready to turn this into a 2a issue rather than looking at their kid and realizing he needed help.

No. All of this ignores the absolutely horrifying drawing and extremely disturbing language written on the drawing. If it were “just” the ammo search I could see your point, but it wasn’t.

Did the guidance counselor he saw on the Tuesday know about the bullet search on the Monday? He explained the drawing as part of a video game, the parents backed him up. Lots of kids his age play violent video games, so it really wouldn't be that surprising.

You clearly haven’t read a detailed description of the drawing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the gun culture of the area complicated the matter for the school social worker. If guns are a past time/hobby for the family, it’s hard to say whether searching bullets during class is seriously problematic or more like searching to sports equipment wit switch games online during class (not ideal but NbD). Because the parents perceive their gun cultut as under threat, they don’t listen to any concerns that their son has an abnormal relationship with guns — plus it’s probably hard for the social workers to even gauge what is healthy or not.

+1

Agree, it is impossible to gauge the insanity.

This is a great point. Guns are such an big part of the culture there that the school would have to be careful. You know these crappy parents were ready to turn this into a 2a issue rather than looking at their kid and realizing he needed help.

No. All of this ignores the absolutely horrifying drawing and extremely disturbing language written on the drawing. If it were “just” the ammo search I could see your point, but it wasn’t.

Did the guidance counselor he saw on the Tuesday know about the bullet search on the Monday? He explained the drawing as part of a video game, the parents backed him up. Lots of kids his age play violent video games, so it really wouldn't be that surprising.

You clearly haven’t read a detailed description of the drawing.

The kid modified the drawing between when the teacher saw and reported it and the meeting about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the gun culture of the area complicated the matter for the school social worker. If guns are a past time/hobby for the family, it’s hard to say whether searching bullets during class is seriously problematic or more like searching to sports equipment wit switch games online during class (not ideal but NbD). Because the parents perceive their gun cultut as under threat, they don’t listen to any concerns that their son has an abnormal relationship with guns — plus it’s probably hard for the social workers to even gauge what is healthy or not.

+1

Agree, it is impossible to gauge the insanity.

This is a great point. Guns are such an big part of the culture there that the school would have to be careful. You know these crappy parents were ready to turn this into a 2a issue rather than looking at their kid and realizing he needed help.

No. All of this ignores the absolutely horrifying drawing and extremely disturbing language written on the drawing. If it were “just” the ammo search I could see your point, but it wasn’t.

Did the guidance counselor he saw on the Tuesday know about the bullet search on the Monday? He explained the drawing as part of a video game, the parents backed him up. Lots of kids his age play violent video games, so it really wouldn't be that surprising.

You clearly haven’t read a detailed description of the drawing.

The kid modified the drawing between when the teacher saw and reported it and the meeting about it.

The teacher snapped a photo on her phone of the original drawing before he modified it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the gun culture of the area complicated the matter for the school social worker. If guns are a past time/hobby for the family, it’s hard to say whether searching bullets during class is seriously problematic or more like searching to sports equipment wit switch games online during class (not ideal but NbD). Because the parents perceive their gun cultut as under threat, they don’t listen to any concerns that their son has an abnormal relationship with guns — plus it’s probably hard for the social workers to even gauge what is healthy or not.

+1

Agree, it is impossible to gauge the insanity.

This is a great point. Guns are such an big part of the culture there that the school would have to be careful. You know these crappy parents were ready to turn this into a 2a issue rather than looking at their kid and realizing he needed help.

No. All of this ignores the absolutely horrifying drawing and extremely disturbing language written on the drawing. If it were “just” the ammo search I could see your point, but it wasn’t.

Did the guidance counselor he saw on the Tuesday know about the bullet search on the Monday? He explained the drawing as part of a video game, the parents backed him up. Lots of kids his age play violent video games, so it really wouldn't be that surprising.

Why are violent video games used by virtually virtually all of these men? (And it is always a man!)

Maybe we are focusing on the wrong issues here.

[Anonymous]

And in the weeks (months?) preceding this, there was a "dark cloud" hanging over campus, to the point admins were writing announcements about safety concerns and teens were telling their parents they wanted to stay home because of fear.

What does this have to do with this shooting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you guys see the Daily Mail exclusive? The young man was employed at a local diner last year -- and was caught on security footage collapsing and banging his head on a table:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10280793/Ethan-Crumbley-seen-collapsing-working-diner-year.html

Substance abuse? Possible head injury or concussion from the fall? Very concerning and I wonder if he was having annual physicals? Perhaps there was an underlying organic issue of some kind going on. His coworker sounded very kind and concerned.

He and his brother were doing weed in the back room. Mother didn't care when called - she told the store manager he just happened eaten that day.

What a horrible parent. She deserves time in jail for that alone.

[Anonymous]

Wait, he has a brother? Where is he now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
SO OVER people trying to use "bullying" - when that is exactly, exactly what they are doing. There is no excuse for shooting or injuring other students. Period. Stop deflecting, it is obvious. Handle your issues. Handle your anger issues.

Just ignore the "bully" posts. Off topic.

Bullying is something that people should be allowed to talk about
To me it sounds like he had an unhappy home and school kids sensed that and he ended up as an easy victim. None of this excuses anything, but it should be something that people can talk about without being accused

Sure. Talk about it at home, talk about it with a counselor, be a parent and get your kid the help he is literally crying out for.

Don't go to the school at school up the school.

Your problems should not be our problems.

Where is the help? Seriously. Everyone keeps saying, get the kid help. The help is on a 6 month waiting list. The kid, most likely, did not show signs of needing to be admitted to a hospital for immediate treatment. Weekly therapy is $200 a week plus - for a middle class family, that is the difference between affording their mortgage or therapy. Therapy covered by insurance is near impossible to come by. The process is slow and finding a good therapist on the first go around, is also close to impossible.
I am not implying that we shouldn't try but if you have not been in the situation to try to get your child help in the last year, you should not be screaming that. There.is.not.help.

DO, with a kid in therapy. I know how expensive it’s. Guess what, that does not change the fact that these kids need help. We cannot just throw up our hands. We need to be screaming our lungs out that we need a workable, affordable mental health system. We need to offer suffering families viable resources. We cannot just say it does not work, costs too much and walk away. People are suffering, raise our voices.

Let’s talk about why so many kids are so broken and don’t blame the pandemic - this was a problem well before Covid

Excellent point. Parents are more consumed with themselves, and less consumed with their children, perhaps. For instance, the parents of this particular shooter could not even be bothered to take him home that day, and clearly wanted him to be someone - anyone- else's problem.

Oh shut up. It isn’t always the parents fault. In this case, maybe. Maybe not.
Things happen biologically, physically and mentally to kids that cause trauma. Mental illness is not the parents fault.
The fact that people are recognizing many kids are “broken” and need help is actually a positive thing.

No one said that mental illness is the parents fault. Failing to get them the help they need, most certainly is. The school can't raise your kid.

We found a therapist that has a sliding scale fee. If you want to find the help, it most certainly is out there.

You shut up.

I'm not the previous poster but this "help" is illusory. The parents I know with kids with serious issues struggle constantly to find and afford help. Most of the help they can afford is very temporary.

These garbage parents didn’t try AT ALL. So spare us the sob story about “struggling constantly to find and afford help.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the gun culture of the area complicated the matter for the school social worker. If guns are a past time/hobby for the family, it’s hard to say whether searching bullets during class is seriously problematic or more like searching to sports equipment wit switch games online during class (not ideal but NbD). Because the parents perceive their gun cultut as under threat, they don’t listen to any concerns that their son has an abnormal relationship with guns — plus it’s probably hard for the social workers to even gauge what is healthy or not.

+1

Agree, it is impossible to gauge the insanity.

This is a great point. Guns are such an big part of the culture there that the school would have to be careful. You know these crappy parents were ready to turn this into a 2a issue rather than looking at their kid and realizing he needed help.

No. All of this ignores the absolutely horrifying drawing and extremely disturbing language written on the drawing. If it were “just” the ammo search I could see your point, but it wasn’t.

Did the guidance counselor he saw on the Tuesday know about the bullet search on the Monday? He explained the drawing as part of a video game, the parents backed him up. Lots of kids his age play violent video games, so it really wouldn't be that surprising.

Why are violent video games used by virtually virtually all of these men? (And it is always a man!)

Maybe we are focusing on the wrong issues here.

No. It’s not “videogames.” It’s such a lazy, ignorant, Boomer excuse.

Once again fir the slow people in the back, it’s EASY ACCESS TO GUNS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
SO OVER people trying to use "bullying" - when that is exactly, exactly what they are doing. There is no excuse for shooting or injuring other students. Period. Stop deflecting, it is obvious. Handle your issues. Handle your anger issues.

Just ignore the "bully" posts. Off topic.

Bullying is something that people should be allowed to talk about
To me it sounds like he had an unhappy home and school kids sensed that and he ended up as an easy victim. None of this excuses anything, but it should be something that people can talk about without being accused

Sure. Talk about it at home, talk about it with a counselor, be a parent and get your kid the help he is literally crying out for.

Don't go to the school at school up the school.

Your problems should not be our problems.

Where is the help? Seriously. Everyone keeps saying, get the kid help. The help is on a 6 month waiting list. The kid, most likely, did not show signs of needing to be admitted to a hospital for immediate treatment. Weekly therapy is $200 a week plus - for a middle class family, that is the difference between affording their mortgage or therapy. Therapy covered by insurance is near impossible to come by. The process is slow and finding a good therapist on the first go around, is also close to impossible.
I am not implying that we shouldn't try but if you have not been in the situation to try to get your child help in the last year, you should not be screaming that. There.is.not.help.

DO, with a kid in therapy. I know how expensive it’s. Guess what, that does not change the fact that these kids need help. We cannot just throw up our hands. We need to be screaming our lungs out that we need a workable, affordable mental health system. We need to offer suffering families viable resources. We cannot just say it does not work, costs too much and walk away. People are suffering, raise our voices.

Let’s talk about why so many kids are so broken and don’t blame the pandemic - this was a problem well before Covid

Excellent point. Parents are more consumed with themselves, and less consumed with their children, perhaps. For instance, the parents of this particular shooter could not even be bothered to take him home that day, and clearly wanted him to be someone - anyone- else's problem.

Oh shut up. It isn’t always the parents fault. In this case, maybe. Maybe not.
Things happen biologically, physically and mentally to kids that cause trauma. Mental illness is not the parents fault.
The fact that people are recognizing many kids are “broken” and need help is actually a positive thing.

No one said that mental illness is the parents fault. Failing to get them the help they need, most certainly is. The school can't raise your kid.

We found a therapist that has a sliding scale fee. If you want to find the help, it most certainly is out there.

You shut up.

I'm not the previous poster but this "help" is illusory. The parents I know with kids with serious issues struggle constantly to find and afford help. Most of the help they can afford is very temporary.

These garbage parents didn’t try AT ALL. So spare us the sob story about “struggling constantly to find and afford help.”

You don’t know what they did and didn’t do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
SO OVER people trying to use "bullying" - when that is exactly, exactly what they are doing. There is no excuse for shooting or injuring other students. Period. Stop deflecting, it is obvious. Handle your issues. Handle your anger issues.

Just ignore the "bully" posts. Off topic.

Bullying is something that people should be allowed to talk about
To me it sounds like he had an unhappy home and school kids sensed that and he ended up as an easy victim. None of this excuses anything, but it should be something that people can talk about without being accused

Sure. Talk about it at home, talk about it with a counselor, be a parent and get your kid the help he is literally crying out for.

Don't go to the school at school up the school.

Your problems should not be our problems.

Where is the help? Seriously. Everyone keeps saying, get the kid help. The help is on a 6 month waiting list. The kid, most likely, did not show signs of needing to be admitted to a hospital for immediate treatment. Weekly therapy is $200 a week plus - for a middle class family, that is the difference between affording their mortgage or therapy. Therapy covered by insurance is near impossible to come by. The process is slow and finding a good therapist on the first go around, is also close to impossible.
I am not implying that we shouldn't try but if you have not been in the situation to try to get your child help in the last year, you should not be screaming that. There.is.not.help.

DO, with a kid in therapy. I know how expensive it’s. Guess what, that does not change the fact that these kids need help. We cannot just throw up our hands. We need to be screaming our lungs out that we need a workable, affordable mental health system. We need to offer suffering families viable resources. We cannot just say it does not work, costs too much and walk away. People are suffering, raise our voices.

Let’s talk about why so many kids are so broken and don’t blame the pandemic - this was a problem well before Covid

Excellent point. Parents are more consumed with themselves, and less consumed with their children, perhaps. For instance, the parents of this particular shooter could not even be bothered to take him home that day, and clearly wanted him to be someone - anyone- else's problem.

Oh shut up. It isn’t always the parents fault. In this case, maybe. Maybe not.
Things happen biologically, physically and mentally to kids that cause trauma. Mental illness is not the parents fault.
The fact that people are recognizing many kids are “broken” and need help is actually a positive thing.

No one said that mental illness is the parents fault. Failing to get them the help they need, most certainly is. The school can't raise your kid.

We found a therapist that has a sliding scale fee. If you want to find the help, it most certainly is out there.

You shut up.

I'm not the previous poster but this "help" is illusory. The parents I know with kids with serious issues struggle constantly to find and afford help. Most of the help they can afford is very temporary.

These garbage parents didn’t try AT ALL. So spare us the sob story about “struggling constantly to find and afford help.”

You don’t know what they did and didn’t do.

Well we KNOW they didn’t take him home from school that day, DID buy him a gun, which they DIDN’T secure properly. So yes we do know some things they did and didn’t do. (DP.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, he has a brother? Where is he now?

A half brother who lives with his mom in FL. Age 18, IIRC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the gun culture of the area complicated the matter for the school social worker. If guns are a past time/hobby for the family, it’s hard to say whether searching bullets during class is seriously problematic or more like searching to sports equipment wit switch games online during class (not ideal but NbD). Because the parents perceive their gun cultut as under threat, they don’t listen to any concerns that their son has an abnormal relationship with guns — plus it’s probably hard for the social workers to even gauge what is healthy or not.

The bullet search is worthless in the criminal case for the reasons you cite. The charge against the parents will not work unless they knew he was thinking of doing this.

Read the charges again. They didn’t need foreknowledge; they were grossly negligent.

That is my point. Gross negligence requires knowledge that he may do something like this. Without that you have nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not saying excessive screens causes it, but I do feel like it’s making it worse. And the kids who are “harder to deal with” get way more screen time than “easier” children. Even at the school where I teach, it’s extremely common for a child with an IEP to receive screen time as a “reward” for meeting a daily goal (either for behavior, or completing an undesired task, etc.) I hate it but it’s up to the resource teacher.

Wow. I know this site loves to go into hysterics about "screens", but this is quite the reach.