If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.

I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.

There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.

But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.

She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.

Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.

Can she come with just her oldest 1 or 2 kids and leave the little ones with her DH at home? Solo parenting a 4yo and a baby isn't great but it's doable for a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holy crap, that sounds hurtful! You can’t exclude one, OP. But you can invite her and make sure she knows you’re not going to stay back and babysit because you’ll be out on the slopes with your own kid(s).

Yes she can this is the equivalent of a participation trophy. Adult get to choose who they hang out with and when they hang out with them. I don't understand why everyone needs to be included in everything all of the time my God you people are exhausting.

OP going with just her older sister is not including the 3rd sister. OP inviting everyone except the 3rd sister is excluding her. Not including is fine, pointedly excluding is not fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don’t get what you mean “from family dynamics” you will be watching her kids. If you tell her in advance that this trip is special, you’ve been planning for it for years, and you’re looking forward to being out on the slopes all day, then won’t she understand that you’re not going to be the babysitter?

History says she will not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don’t get what you mean “from family dynamics” you will be watching her kids. If you tell her in advance that this trip is special, you’ve been planning for it for years, and you’re looking forward to being out on the slopes all day, then won’t she understand that you’re not going to be the babysitter?

History says she will not.

Is this OP? I was coming around to thinking you weren't horrible based on your update but your seeming bitterness at being denied a trip with the extra sister and refusal to accept the great fun happy trip you have planned makes me think you are resentful of the excluded sister and the anger she would feel would be not just natural but correctly reading the lie of the land on the intentions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.

I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.

There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.

But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.

She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.

Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.

Can she come with just her oldest 1 or 2 kids and leave the little ones with her DH at home? Solo parenting a 4yo and a baby isn't great but it's doable for a week.

I am pretty sure she is not going to want to leave a nursing 5 month old for a ski trip.

I feel as though saying “Hey we’re going on this trip, do you wanna come oh but in order to do so you need to do these things I know you would never do (leave a nursing infant for a week, put your kids in resort childcare/ski school during a pandemic) or almost certainly can’t afford to do (rent a separate house) is the same as not inviting her, with an added helping of making her feel judged for choices I agree with (e.g. I wouldn’t have left my nursing 5 month old for a vacation either).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t invite either of your younger sisters. You don’t want to be irritated with your sister with young kids the whole time and it’s rude to invite everyone but her.

Do the trip as originally intended; with you and your older sister.

I bet she wants the younger childless sister along because she hopes she will babysit.

No, she and her wife are both still in grad school, so they aren't really in the place to afford a nice vacation, but because we're already paid for the house, and we've got room in the minivan, they could come for just the cost of lift tickets, and we could afford to give them those as a Christmas gift.

Frankly, getting married in a pandemic sucks, and they're great people, so it would be nice to do something for them, and they're easy. I know that if I say "Hey, I want to ski with just my kids" or something, they'll be like -- "Have fun, we'll head over to this other slope, see you at dinner!"

Neither my older sister nor I have kids who still need babysitting.

I really doubt the excluded sister will ever forgive this. We like the childfree gay couple but your kids. … no way. Ouch.

[Anonymous]

OP this is certainly an awkward situation. You are obviously a very good skier and have put a lot of thought into this vacation.
Four kids is a lot and yes it will change the dynamic significantly. Especially if they are young and need to be taught.
I’m also involved in a highly skilled sport. You wait and save and anticipate and you don’t want to slow down for others because you never know if you will ever get this chance again. Therefore I would not like to mix it up with 4 little kids.
But there is no way you can exclude the mom of 4 & include the childfree couple. Family will be very unhappy.
You need to keep it to one or maybe even no sisters and have the advanced vacation that you planned.

[Anonymous]

OP I don’t think the PPs really understand a skilled sport. They seem to think it’s the beach where everyone drinks under sn umbrella.

[Anonymous]

I have no idea why you’d have to babysit. You upfront say you’ll be buying a full ski pass and will be on the slopes with your kids as much as possible each day. You get up each morning and get ready. If she grumbles you remind that you said you’ll be skiing each day. It’s not mean. Just have a backbone!!

[Anonymous]

This is so simple. If she needs quiet after a certain time she should get a separate cabin/room. Why do you have to babysit? Her kid, her problem.

But you should invite her.

[Anonymous]

After reading your explanation I’m still unsure why it’s your problem? Her husband takes their oldest out or supervises with a ski instructor, she hangs back with the baby or vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After reading your explanation I’m still unsure why it’s your problem? Her husband takes their oldest out or supervises with a ski instructor, she hangs back with the baby or vice versa.

Because there are two other kids in the middle. And because their kids will be upset if they aren't invited to be with their cousins, and not understand because they're kids.

And because I don't want to take a ski vacation with little kids. I didn't even want to do it when my own kids were little.

I understand that inviting 3 but not 4 would hurt people's feelings. I am a little baffled that people seem not to understand why someone would prefer not to have a 5 month old, who may or may not be sleeping through the night, and a preschooler along on their ski vacation.

[Anonymous]

I'm one of 4 (3 girls and a boy). Yes, I would be hurt if they all went on vacation without me. I'd also be a little hurt if my 2 sisters went without me, but I could suck that up, cause at least my brother would be out too. But if all 3 of them went on vacation without inviting me --- yeah, that would sting badly.

FWIW I'm the oldest with the oldest kids. I get it - I remember the first family vacation we took when my oldest was a toddler. Went to a restaurant and they said it would be an hour wait. My younger siblings were all "no problem, we'll be at the bar," leaving me to be the wet blanket. And now that my kids are older and more flexible, guess who suddenly needs to eat at 6/stay in the shallow end/etc. But that's just how it goes amongst siblings in different life stages. I would never want to let that situation result in one of my siblings feeling hurt or excluded.

You need to decide if you want a ski trip or a family trip. If you want a ski trip, take it with your nuclear family and/or friends with same age kids. If you want a family trip, include everyone and choose somewhere that you won't feel resentful of the big kid- little kid dynamics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don’t get what you mean “from family dynamics” you will be watching her kids. If you tell her in advance that this trip is special, you’ve been planning for it for years, and you’re looking forward to being out on the slopes all day, then won’t she understand that you’re not going to be the babysitter?

History says she will not.

Is this OP? I was coming around to thinking you weren't horrible based on your update but your seeming bitterness at being denied a trip with the extra sister and refusal to accept the great fun happy trip you have planned makes me think you are resentful of the excluded sister and the anger she would feel would be not just natural but correctly reading the lie of the land on the intentions.

My youngest sister and I are close. She's 17 years younger than me, and my mom died when she was in high school, so I helped raise her and we're close, and I missed her during the first 15 months of the pandemic. So, the idea of taking a trip to do something we love together sounds nice. And budgetwise, she's probably not going to be able to take a real ski vacation for a long time, so the fact that we could pay less than $1,000 and add both of them to the trip is tempting.

I get that it seems unfair to leave just one sister behind, but it also seems unfair to leave this sister behind because that sister has a new baby. New babies are wonderful things. But sometimes the trade off of having one is that in the first couple years you don't get to do the things you did before.

I'll also say that I've done a lot this pandemic for the sister with the four kids. I don't resent that. That's what family does, and I love her, and I love her kids. But one of the reasons why I know her kids will expect me to be doing stuff for them on this trip, is that they're used to me doing stuff for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading your explanation I’m still unsure why it’s your problem? Her husband takes their oldest out or supervises with a ski instructor, she hangs back with the baby or vice versa.

Because there are two other kids in the middle. And because their kids will be upset if they aren't invited to be with their cousins, and not understand because they're kids.

And because I don't want to take a ski vacation with little kids. I didn't even want to do it when my own kids were little.

I understand that inviting 3 but not 4 would hurt people's feelings. I am a little baffled that people seem not to understand why someone would prefer not to have a 5 month old, who may or may not be sleeping through the night, and a preschooler along on their ski vacation.

I totally get it. But in that case, take the vacation with friends. Once you add in siblings/cousins, you kind of lose the ability to discriminate based on ages. It's either a family vacation (with whatever makeup the family happens to be at that time) or it's not.