If all your siblings went on vacation without you, would you be hurt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when families feel like they have to cater to the lowest common denominator in a family. Always having to attach themselves to the weakest link.
I wouldn't want to go on a beach vacation with that sister if I was expected to help watch her for young kids. My kids are old enough to enjoy the beach without drowning and are wonderful swimmers I don't want to have to run around looking after a four-year-old all day it's not even mine. That's why when my kids were little we planned vacations that our entire family could enjoy and where I knew I could keep the kids safe. I would never want to go on a vacation where I would need to have everyone else help me care for my own children.
It's one thing if we're all going to a park and invite the cousins along and watch them but it's an entirely different thing to go on a vacation that is geared towards older kids and expect the entire family to watch your toddlers.

OP here,

The thing is, I actually really love doing things with her kids. I used to teach preschool, I'd have more kids if I could afford them. Twice, we took beach vacations when this sister had a baby about the same age, I took her toddlers and older kids with my kids to the beach, and loved it. All this summer, whenever I went to the pool or minigolf or whatever, I picked up this sister's kids. I really enjoyed that, because playing minigolf with a 4 and 8 year old is fun. Next summer, we'll probably go to the beach together, and I'll watch her kids some more.

But being stuck on an easy slope, while the slope you came to ski is right there where you can see it, and you can't be with your own children, isn't fun. It's like going to Ruth Chris on New Years Eve. It's an activity that is more fun when little kids aren't there.

You don't need to invite her! The question was, "Would you be hurt?" Most people are saying, "Yeah, I'd be hurt." All this other info is background noise. Do you care if your sister will be hurt, or not? If no, then the three of you go ahead and have fun. If you do care, then don't invite youngest sister.

If you don't care, though, then I'm not sure why you bothered to ask in the first place, unless you just assumed everyone would say, "nah, it's fine!"

This. OP only has to be clear to her sister that they may be skiing separately, no childcare etc. I mean it's a ski chalet. Little kids sleep like rocks and you can still have fun once they're down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.

I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.

There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.

But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.

She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.

Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.

I don't think any of us are minimizing the issues involved, OP, it's just that this is part and parcel of traveling with family. The real question is: why would you think you can escape that? When I want to travel with my parents, I accept that I will tear my hair out because of my mother's irrationalities, and will spend a great deal of time persuading my father to step out of his routine. Yet I do travel with them, because there is some enjoyment to be had, nonetheless.

You were having a little selfish moment there, OP. You can't have it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

How have I not addressed it? Are you asking me if I'd be hurt? No, I wouldn't. Are you asking me if I think my sister will be hurt? Yes, I sort of assume she will, she can be pretty fragile. So, I'm trying to gage whether those feelings are reasonable, and whether they are a reason to change my plans. But I'm not going to change them by inviting this sister, or by hiding the trip from her. I might change them by changing how I explain my choice, or I might change them by not inviting my youngest sister. I have not yet decided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.

I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.

There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.

But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.

She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.

Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.

I don't think any of us are minimizing the issues involved, OP, it's just that this is part and parcel of traveling with family. The real question is: why would you think you can escape that? When I want to travel with my parents, I accept that I will tear my hair out because of my mother's irrationalities, and will spend a great deal of time persuading my father to step out of his routine. Yet I do travel with them, because there is some enjoyment to be had, nonetheless.

You were having a little selfish moment there, OP. You can't have it all.

Do you take your parents on every single vacation? Or do you sometimes travel with them and sometimes not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

How have I not addressed it? Are you asking me if I'd be hurt? No, I wouldn't. Are you asking me if I think my sister will be hurt? Yes, I sort of assume she will, she can be pretty fragile. So, I'm trying to gage whether those feelings are reasonable, and whether they are a reason to change my plans. But I'm not going to change them by inviting this sister, or by hiding the trip from her. I might change them by changing how I explain my choice, or I might change them by not inviting my youngest sister. I have not yet decided.

Plenty of people said yes, they would be hurt, but that’s irrelevant. If you think your sister is a fragile, unreasonable person, then you’ve made up your mind. Do what you want. You have two other sisters on your side so what do you have to worry about? Fragile sister can get with the program or be sad and fragile on her own time. Nothing you need to trouble yourself with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

How have I not addressed it? Are you asking me if I'd be hurt? No, I wouldn't. Are you asking me if I think my sister will be hurt? Yes, I sort of assume she will, she can be pretty fragile. So, I'm trying to gage whether those feelings are reasonable, and whether they are a reason to change my plans. But I'm not going to change them by inviting this sister, or by hiding the trip from her. I might change them by changing how I explain my choice, or I might change them by not inviting my youngest sister. I have not yet decided.

Plenty of people said yes, they would be hurt, but that’s irrelevant. If you think your sister is a fragile, unreasonable person, then you’ve made up your mind. Do what you want. You have two other sisters on your side so what do you have to worry about? Fragile sister can get with the program or be sad and fragile on her own time. Nothing you need to trouble yourself with.

Irrelevant to what. I can't even tell what you're judging me for in this post. For not inviting this sister? For also considering the feelings of my other sister? For asking the question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the PPs here can’t afford a ski vacation and are just being mean.

Interesting, I guess I think that many people don't understand saving for years for a vacation that you'll take once.

Kindness is free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the PPs here can’t afford a ski vacation and are just being mean.

Interesting, I guess I think that many people don't understand saving for years for a vacation that you'll take once.

Kindness is free.

So is rationality and emotional maturity.

[Anonymous]

Given the recent postings from OP and the history she has of helping out the kids of this particular sister and her desire to have some time for her own kids on this their first ski trip to a sort of fancy (non PA) place, I take back my previous snide comment about her being the sister who always does what she wants and doesn't worry about other people's feelings. She does help this sister a lot. She taught some of her kids to swim and another how to ride a bike, and there was no return from that sister because she lived farther away when OP's kids were small.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but this all bothers me a lot less now. One thing I wouldn't do is ask your little sister expecting the news not to get back to your excluded sister. It will someday, even if that someday isn't right now -- someday little sis will be mad at you and trying to get in with the excluded sister and whoops there it went. I would just be upfront about the excluded sister about your reasons. I would even ask her whether she feels hurt and and whether there's something she wants you to do (while still respecting your boundaries of what you want), and depending on how that went, ask her if she'd be more hurt about inviting the little sister, maybe. I think she might understand, given all you have done for her in the past. I don't think you're being selfish, really, given how generous you have been with your time in the past and how well you understand the responsibilities you'd be taking on if this sister came.

Good luck, and sorry for my earlier rude-ish comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

OP is a bit Narcissistic that's it. She asked if people would be hurt, when told yes, she then had to explain why they shouldn't she then made several posts agreeing with herself so as not to seem like the bad guy. This thread is nearly a week old and OP is still going on and on about it. She's self-involved. It's not enough for people to agree with her. She needs people to see her as the long-suffering victim and her sister as being oh so selfish and immature if her feelings are hurt.

[Anonymous]

Not OP but on her side.
Will the sister be upset? Maybe.
Should she be? Maybe
Does OP need to invite her? No
Can adults vacation with whom they please? Yep
Does all family need to be invited? Nope (sorry not sorry).

Maybe my family is totally weird but not one of us 4 siblings would care if the 3 went somewhere without one of us if it was obviously not a great fit: (Disney when my kids are adults; An Aerosmith concert when the kid are all under 10; vinyard tour when kids are under 16; weeklong camping when kids are under 1). Now are there SOME trips it would perhaps sting if i didn't immediately know why i was excluded? Yep. Would OPs situation/trip bother me if i was the excluded sister. Hell no.

If you feel all siblings need to be invited or at least 1 other MUST be left out, i do feel for your family dynamic and the insecurity you feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

You all have convinced me this is a no go, but for some reason I still feel compelled to come back and explain, because as usual DCUM makes a lot of assumptions that aren't true.

I'm not the oldest, and she's not the youngest, we're the two middle kids. So, the dynamic that person is imaging doesn't apply here.

There's also not a dynamic where she helped me with little kids and now I don't help her. For one thing, it just didn't happen that way. My kids are close in age, and when they were little she lived across the country. Her oldest and my younger kid are a few weeks apart, so there just wasn't much time together when I had little kids and she didn't. Since then, she's had 3 more kids and moved close, so I've had lots of opportunities to help her out. Which is fine, that's just the way things happened not a complaint. Now family dynamic is such that we help each other out, and as the person with the younger kids she gets lots of help. I took her kids to the pool all summer, and taught two of them to swim and one of them to ride a bike, because she was pregnant and uncomfortable, and then nursing a newborn, and her DH was swamped with work. Not a complaint, just saying I help out a lot, and most of the time, I'm happy to do that.

But the result is that she's got young kids who are used to being helped by me, and she's used to getting help from me, and while I'm not complaining about the dynamic, or bothered by the dynamic most of the time, on a ski vacation it's going to get challenging to change that dynamic.

She does have a husband. A great guy, involved parent, and lousy skier. But they have 4 kids, and honestly a 4 year old who has never skied really cramps your style, so her older two are going to be desperate to ski with someone else, and they're not quite ready for the freedom I was imagining my kids and their older cousins having. So somewhere, a third adult or teen would end up involved. Ski vacations with little kids are just different from ski vacations where everyone is a competent skier. I didn't take my own 4 year olds on any ski vacations, because honestly with them along it wouldn't have been enough fun to justify the price tag. In fact, this will be my own kids' first ski trip further than PA, and more than one night, so I kind of want to focus on them.

Covid also makes this more complicated. Even if we have a kid vaccine, we won't have a baby vaccine in December, and she's not going to be willing to use any kind of childcare for the baby because of that. I'd be the same way. And if there's no kid vaccine, and we have no way of knowing that, she's not going to be willing use ski school and risk them bringing it back. And even if she is, I can tell you the dynamic with two same age kids one of whom has to go to ski school, while the other is free to go wherever with his older brother and cousins will be hard. Plus ski school costs a ton of money.

I don't think any of us are minimizing the issues involved, OP, it's just that this is part and parcel of traveling with family. The real question is: why would you think you can escape that? When I want to travel with my parents, I accept that I will tear my hair out because of my mother's irrationalities, and will spend a great deal of time persuading my father to step out of his routine. Yet I do travel with them, because there is some enjoyment to be had, nonetheless.

You were having a little selfish moment there, OP. You can't have it all.

You are missing the whole point. This is not a trip the whole family has planned. OP planned it with her older sister, it was never intended to be a big family vacation like an annual beach trip. As a self-sufficient adult you absolutely get to choose what your vacations look like. It is your time and money and you are not obligated to include your entire family.

[Anonymous]

This is a vacation planned by OP.
Not a beach trip, not a holiday, not a birthday party.

Even if it WAS a beach vacation, I would hate to have to take care of my sister's kids all trip. I love to help out and do, but draw the line at spending more time babysitting other people's kids than i need to do my own on MY vacation.

[Anonymous]

I’d be hurt if I was the only sib of 4 not invited on a trip.

More importantly, I do not understand why this sister going means you need to watch her kids or change your planned activities. Just be clear with expectations up front and the. sister decides if she wants to go under those circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that the OP won’t address her actual question, which was whether or not this would hurt her sister’s feelings. So what was your real purpose for starting this thread, OP?

How have I not addressed it? Are you asking me if I'd be hurt? No, I wouldn't. Are you asking me if I think my sister will be hurt? Yes, I sort of assume she will, she can be pretty fragile. So, I'm trying to gage whether those feelings are reasonable, and whether they are a reason to change my plans. But I'm not going to change them by inviting this sister, or by hiding the trip from her. I might change them by changing how I explain my choice, or I might change them by not inviting my youngest sister. I have not yet decided.

Plenty of people said yes, they would be hurt, but that’s irrelevant. If you think your sister is a fragile, unreasonable person, then you’ve made up your mind. Do what you want. You have two other sisters on your side so what do you have to worry about? Fragile sister can get with the program or be sad and fragile on her own time. Nothing you need to trouble yourself with.

Irrelevant to what. I can't even tell what you're judging me for in this post. For not inviting this sister? For also considering the feelings of my other sister? For asking the question?

Not pp but it is irrelevant how I (or another other poster) would feel in the situation, it really only matters how your sister will feel. Of all the people on the thread you are in the best position to answer that. Then you have to decide how much you want to let your sister‘s presumed feelings affect your decision making. Personally If you came to me and my explained the situation before inviting sister number 4 I would understand and encourage you to include her (and agree that it’s better i not come along with my baby etc.). I would be more hurt if you invited all the sisters but not me and I found out about after trip plans were set. But none of this matters since I’m not your sister.