Help me to understand transgender identity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

You don't look as good as a woman as you think you do, PP. You look like a cartoonish characterization. Sorry but yes, we can tell.

But hey, whatever you want to do, that's cool with me. Just not in the women's bathroom which is, as designated by signage, for women. You are not a woman. You are a man who is pretending to be a woman, for reasons that make sense only to you.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and actually I'm a cisgender woman. Specifically, a cisgender woman who thinks that the world would be a better place if all people were allowed to pee in peace.

Hear, hear!

(And here, too!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have some advice for you. Learn to ignore. To use your own words. If you're not able to do that, don't use public restrooms. I don't think you have the constitution for it. All these "what if the boogey man is coming" is just messing with your head.

You just may be too dumbfor this discussion.

I quoted your own advice to transgender individuals. Interesting that you find that "too dumb for this discussion." I would tend to agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:09:42. I don't actually think that I feel like a man or a woman inside. I'm just me, with my own unique set of interests and characteristics. I don't dispute that others may feel differently. I'm just trying to figure out how to explain this to my daughter in a way that isn't sexist, and enforces cultural gender stereotypes.

I had this conversation with my two kids as their cousin is transgender. They always thought of her as a girl - they actually thought her birth certificate name (which was a typical boys name ... think John) was a girls name and asked me why a boy had a girls name when they met someone with the same name and they were the opposite gender than their cousin. When he was young his parents did not buy him dresses or skirts, they had him wear pants and boy clothes, although they let him pick out the colors and he was drawn to the more stereotypical girl colors and to my kids he was a tom boy like other girls they knew who wore boys clothes. It was a harder conversation telling them that he was a boy when they were very young then affirming she was a girl when she came out and identified as a girl in HS - that was a much easier conversation because as far as they were concerned she was always a girl. When I had that first conversation when they were young and I told them their cousin was a boy and not a girl, they continued to call to use the pronoun she and would have to correct themselves to say 'he'. As I said, it was MUCH easier to say, nope, so and so is a girl.

This year my 6th G son wrote a paper on transgender people. I was very proud as my kids really understand that everyone is different. They have friends of different races and are inclusive. They also have friends of different genders.... although my boy would prefer to not being in the friend zone with some of his girlfriends And while they know someone is transgender, it did not "rub" off on them as my kids are not transgender and identify with their birth gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

How then are male /female bathrooms distinguished? They are distinguished based on genitalia, regardless of whether you checked it. Idiocy, really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

How then are male /female bathrooms distinguished? They are distinguished based on genitalia, regardless of whether you checked it. Idiocy, really.

They are distinguished by the names or symbols on the door. For example, Women/Men or Ladies/Gentlemen or Fillies/Colts or Stick figure in dress/Stick figure (which is dumb, by the way; I have often used the Stickfigureindress restroom even though I wasn't wearing a dress) or Smurfette/Smurf (say what?!) or...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

How then are male /female bathrooms distinguished? They are distinguished based on genitalia, regardless of whether you checked it. Idiocy, really.

They are distinguished by the names or symbols on the door. For example, Women/Men or Ladies/Gentlemen or Fillies/Colts or Stick figure in dress/Stick figure (which is dumb, by the way; I have often used the Stickfigureindress restroom even though I wasn't wearing a dress) or Smurfette/Smurf (say what?!) or...

Precisely. Where are the penises and vaginas on the bathroom doors exactly? I haven't run across that yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:09:42. I don't actually think that I feel like a man or a woman inside. I'm just me, with my own unique set of interests and characteristics. I don't dispute that others may feel differently. I'm just trying to figure out how to explain this to my daughter in a way that isn't sexist, and enforces cultural gender stereotypes.

I had this conversation with my two kids as their cousin is transgender. They always thought of her as a girl - they actually thought her birth certificate name (which was a typical boys name ... think John) was a girls name and asked me why a boy had a girls name when they met someone with the same name and they were the opposite gender than their cousin. When he was young his parents did not buy him dresses or skirts, they had him wear pants and boy clothes, although they let him pick out the colors and he was drawn to the more stereotypical girl colors and to my kids he was a tom boy like other girls they knew who wore boys clothes. It was a harder conversation telling them that he was a boy when they were very young then affirming she was a girl when she came out and identified as a girl in HS - that was a much easier conversation because as far as they were concerned she was always a girl. When I had that first conversation when they were young and I told them their cousin was a boy and not a girl, they continued to call to use the pronoun she and would have to correct themselves to say 'he'. As I said, it was MUCH easier to say, nope, so and so is a girl.

This year my 6th G son wrote a paper on transgender people. I was very proud as my kids really understand that everyone is different. They have friends of different races and are inclusive. They also have friends of different genders.... although my boy would prefer to not being in the friend zone with some of his girlfriends And while they know someone is transgender, it did not "rub" off on them as my kids are not transgender and identify with their birth gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

You don't look as good as a woman as you think you do, PP. You look like a cartoonish characterization. Sorry but yes, we can tell.

But hey, whatever you want to do, that's cool with me. Just not in the women's bathroom which is, as designated by signage, for women. You are not a woman. You are a man who is pretending to be a woman, for reasons that make sense only to you.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and actually I'm a cisgender woman. Specifically, a cisgender woman who thinks that the world would be a better place if all people were allowed to pee in peace.

Totally agree with you. So why are so-called transgenders turning this into such a big deal? The world has been peeing peacefully in designated restrooms since time began.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

You don't look as good as a woman as you think you do, PP. You look like a cartoonish characterization. Sorry but yes, we can tell.

But hey, whatever you want to do, that's cool with me. Just not in the women's bathroom which is, as designated by signage, for women. You are not a woman. You are a man who is pretending to be a woman, for reasons that make sense only to you.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and actually I'm a cisgender woman. Specifically, a cisgender woman who thinks that the world would be a better place if all people were allowed to pee in peace.

Totally agree with you. So why are so-called transgenders turning this into such a big deal? The world has been peeing peacefully in designated restrooms since time began.

Because they do not want to be arrested if they use the restroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Totally agree with you. So why are so-called transgenders turning this into such a big deal? The world has been peeing peacefully in designated restrooms since time began.

Well, the world was peeing peacefully in designated restrooms, but then state legislatures starting passing laws against peaceful peeing. This law, for example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/a-look-at-north-carolinas-law-on-restrooms-discrimination/2016/03/31/d855d6c0-f788-11e5-958d-d038dac6e718_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

You don't look as good as a woman as you think you do, PP. You look like a cartoonish characterization. Sorry but yes, we can tell.

But hey, whatever you want to do, that's cool with me. Just not in the women's bathroom which is, as designated by signage, for women. You are not a woman. You are a man who is pretending to be a woman, for reasons that make sense only to you.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and actually I'm a cisgender woman. Specifically, a cisgender woman who thinks that the world would be a better place if all people were allowed to pee in peace.

Totally agree with you. So why are so-called transgenders turning this into such a big deal? The world has been peeing peacefully in designated restrooms since time began.

Because they do not want to be arrested if they use the restroom.

Ah. But they are using the wrong restroom, as is clearly designated by signage. Can they not read? Is this really a literacy issue, perhaps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

You don't look as good as a woman as you think you do, PP. You look like a cartoonish characterization. Sorry but yes, we can tell.

But hey, whatever you want to do, that's cool with me. Just not in the women's bathroom which is, as designated by signage, for women. You are not a woman. You are a man who is pretending to be a woman, for reasons that make sense only to you.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and actually I'm a cisgender woman. Specifically, a cisgender woman who thinks that the world would be a better place if all people were allowed to pee in peace.

Totally agree with you. So why are so-called transgenders turning this into such a big deal? The world has been peeing peacefully in designated restrooms since time began.

Because they do not want to be arrested if they use the restroom.

Ah. But they are using the wrong restroom, as is clearly designated by signage. Can they not read? Is this really a literacy issue, perhaps?

You're really a nasty person, you know that?

If this is OP, your pathetic attempt at "understanding transgender identity" is nauseating. You should edit your title.

If you're not OP, you're still pathetic. You don't understand transgender identity, clearly don't want to, so why the hell would you click on a thread titled "help me understand transgender identity?" Ah. You are clearly in the wrong thread for you, as clearly designated by the title. Can you not read? Is this really a literacy issue for you, perhaps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because they do not want to be arrested if they use the restroom.

Ah. But they are using the wrong restroom, as is clearly designated by signage. Can they not read? Is this really a literacy issue, perhaps?

I don't know what public restrooms you use, but the public restrooms I use typically have signs that say "men/women", not "people with penises/people with vulvas", not "people whose original birth certificates say M/people whose original birth certificates say F", and certainly not "people with XX chromosomes/people with XY chromosomes". In fact I have never seen any public restroom that used any of the latter three signs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am relatively liberal, and don't really "get" transgender identity either. I believe in science and genetics. Chromosomes are chromosomes and anything else is just wishing. However, I don't have to get it. There is zero harm done to me by someone who has decided to live as the opposite gender, and kindness never hurt anyone. And I'm really not going to do a "look-inside-the-pants" test nor require a genome sequencing to use a bathroom, so this whole thing is completely ridiculous and a total waste of legislator resources. What actual work needed to be done and wasn't because of bozo laws like this? That may actually be doing me harm.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am relatively liberal, and don't really "get" transgender identity either. I believe in science and genetics. Chromosomes are chromosomes and anything else is just wishing. However, I don't have to get it. There is zero harm done to me by someone who has decided to live as the opposite gender, and kindness never hurt anyone. And I'm really not going to do a "look-inside-the-pants" test nor require a genome sequencing to use a bathroom, so this whole thing is completely ridiculous and a total waste of legislator resources. What actual work needed to be done and wasn't because of bozo laws like this? That may actually be doing me harm.

+1

A useful article for the two of you:

http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

Sex can be much more complicated than it at first seems. According to the simple scenario, the presence or absence of a Y chromosome is what counts: with it, you are male, and without it, you are female. But doctors have long known that some people straddle the boundary — their sex chromosomes say one thing, but their gonads (ovaries or testes) or sexual anatomy say another. Parents of children with these kinds of conditions — known as intersex conditions, or differences or disorders of sex development (DSDs) — often face difficult decisions about whether to bring up their child as a boy or a girl. Some researchers now say that as many as 1 person in 100 has some form of DSD.

When genetics is taken into consideration, the boundary between the sexes becomes even blurrier. Scientists have identified many of the genes involved in the main forms of DSD, and have uncovered variations in these genes that have subtle effects on a person's anatomical or physiological sex. What's more, new technologies in DNA sequencing and cell biology are revealing that almost everyone is, to varying degrees, a patchwork of genetically distinct cells, some with a sex that might not match that of the rest of their body. Some studies even suggest that the sex of each cell drives its behaviour, through a complicated network of molecular interactions. “I think there's much greater diversity within male or female, and there is certainly an area of overlap where some people can't easily define themselves within the binary structure,” says John Achermann, who studies sex development and endocrinology at University College London's Institute of Child Health.

These discoveries do not sit well in a world in which sex is still defined in binary terms. Few legal systems allow for any ambiguity in biological sex, and a person's legal rights and social status can be heavily influenced by whether their birth certificate says male or female.

“The main problem with a strong dichotomy is that there are intermediate cases that push the limits and ask us to figure out exactly where the dividing line is between males and females,” says Arthur Arnold at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies biological sex differences. “And that's often a very difficult problem, because sex can be defined a number of ways.”