Help me to understand transgender identity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this.

OP, there are no urinals in women's rooms so it is not a concerned.

Why are you worried about your daughter seeing a penis? by which I mean, how could she, when everyone is in stalls in the women's room?? This worry makes no sense to me and I am a mom, too. Please, stop your daughter from peeping into other people's stalls if that's what she's doing. Please.

[Anonymous]

The Slate article that someone posted upthread is interesting. Wow, this was news for me:

"A 46-year-old pregnant woman had visited his clinic at the Royal Melbourne Hospital in Australia to hear the results of an amniocentesis test to screen her baby's chromosomes for abnormalities. The baby was fine — but follow-up tests had revealed something astonishing about the mother. Her body was built of cells from two individuals, probably from twin embryos that had merged in her own mother's womb. And there was more. One set of cells carried two X chromosomes, the complement that typically makes a person female; the other had an X and a Y. Halfway through her fifth decade and pregnant with her third child, the woman learned for the first time that a large part of her body was chromosomally male1. “That's kind of science-fiction material for someone who just came in for an amniocentesis,” says James."

Someone biologically part (!) male (by chromosome) gave birth to three babies and only found out about this at 46...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be perfectly okay with everybody, male and female, all just using unisex bathrooms. I have a tween daughter, but she has a father and brothers, so an accidental glimpse of something isn't going to be a big deal. However, I am struggling with how to explain the idea of transgenderism to her, more so than her brothers, because I am very uncomfortable with the gender stereotypes that are inherent in the idea that someone feels like a man or a woman on the inside. What does that mean? It seems mostly cultural. I don't want her to absorb the idea, one that was pushed on me as a young girl and young woman interested in a field of work that was not traditionally female (or any type of work at all, according to my family), that being a girl on the inside means that you like certain subjects at school, certain colors, certain types of books, or sports, etc.

A transgender person isn't necessarily gay. Just like Caitlyn Jenner who said she would continue to date women then went back on it a year later and said she would think of dating men well if she's attracted to women still then she'll be attracted to the women she's using the bathroom with and if she's pre-op well then that is where things would get weird.

Right. So, you have people like Laverne Cox's character Sophia on OITNB, who was a straight man, and is now a lesbian. And you have people like Carmen Carrera, who was a gay man, and now is a straight woman.

Where you lost me was "things getting weird" when someone is attracted to someone else in the bathroom. Surely, that happens sometimes when people of the same birth gender use the bathroom. Is it awkward for gay men or lesbians? It's certainly something that would merit a conversation in a relationship whether a trans* person is pre- or post-op.

If the tg person still has their penis and is attracted to and dating women and using the same bathroom whose to say a straight man wont enter the bathroom dressed as a woman to rape a woman? Rape is very common.

I don't understand this argument, no matter how many times it's put out there. Rape is illegal, regardless of where it takes place. If a man is a rapist, he should be arrested. What is stopping him from doing so are laws against rape and other violence to human beings.

Non-violent transwomen, who are in the bathroom to pee in a stall =/= rapists.

Transwomen who are made to use a men's room do have violence done against them.

+1000

This fear about trans women raping in the ladies room is so wildly off the mark. Trans people are far more likely to be the victims of crime than to commit crimes themselves.

And if a straight man plans to dress up as a woman with the intention of raping someone in the ladies restroom, well, we have a law for that. It's a law against rape.

So will you be in the bathroom enforcing that law? Guys are creeps. In the Dc area rape happens daily. Lot of pervs out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be perfectly okay with everybody, male and female, all just using unisex bathrooms. I have a tween daughter, but she has a father and brothers, so an accidental glimpse of something isn't going to be a big deal. However, I am struggling with how to explain the idea of transgenderism to her, more so than her brothers, because I am very uncomfortable with the gender stereotypes that are inherent in the idea that someone feels like a man or a woman on the inside. What does that mean? It seems mostly cultural. I don't want her to absorb the idea, one that was pushed on me as a young girl and young woman interested in a field of work that was not traditionally female (or any type of work at all, according to my family), that being a girl on the inside means that you like certain subjects at school, certain colors, certain types of books, or sports, etc.

A transgender person isn't necessarily gay. Just like Caitlyn Jenner who said she would continue to date women then went back on it a year later and said she would think of dating men well if she's attracted to women still then she'll be attracted to the women she's using the bathroom with and if she's pre-op well then that is where things would get weird.

Right. So, you have people like Laverne Cox's character Sophia on OITNB, who was a straight man, and is now a lesbian. And you have people like Carmen Carrera, who was a gay man, and now is a straight woman.

Where you lost me was "things getting weird" when someone is attracted to someone else in the bathroom. Surely, that happens sometimes when people of the same birth gender use the bathroom. Is it awkward for gay men or lesbians? It's certainly something that would merit a conversation in a relationship whether a trans* person is pre- or post-op.

If the tg person still has their penis and is attracted to and dating women and using the same bathroom whose to say a straight man wont enter the bathroom dressed as a woman to rape a woman? Rape is very common.

This can happen NOW. You realize that right?

Happened to a relative recently so yes I know of course. Since the age of 13 I have been ogled by men of all ages.nso allowing Ts still attracted to girls how many straight pervs do you think will sneak in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be perfectly okay with everybody, male and female, all just using unisex bathrooms. I have a tween daughter, but she has a father and brothers, so an accidental glimpse of something isn't going to be a big deal. However, I am struggling with how to explain the idea of transgenderism to her, more so than her brothers, because I am very uncomfortable with the gender stereotypes that are inherent in the idea that someone feels like a man or a woman on the inside. What does that mean? It seems mostly cultural. I don't want her to absorb the idea, one that was pushed on me as a young girl and young woman interested in a field of work that was not traditionally female (or any type of work at all, according to my family), that being a girl on the inside means that you like certain subjects at school, certain colors, certain types of books, or sports, etc.

A transgender person isn't necessarily gay. Just like Caitlyn Jenner who said she would continue to date women then went back on it a year later and said she would think of dating men well if she's attracted to women still then she'll be attracted to the women she's using the bathroom with and if she's pre-op well then that is where things would get weird.

Right. So, you have people like Laverne Cox's character Sophia on OITNB, who was a straight man, and is now a lesbian. And you have people like Carmen Carrera, who was a gay man, and now is a straight woman.

Where you lost me was "things getting weird" when someone is attracted to someone else in the bathroom. Surely, that happens sometimes when people of the same birth gender use the bathroom. Is it awkward for gay men or lesbians? It's certainly something that would merit a conversation in a relationship whether a trans* person is pre- or post-op.

If the tg person still has their penis and is attracted to and dating women and using the same bathroom whose to say a straight man wont enter the bathroom dressed as a woman to rape a woman? Rape is very common.

I don't understand this argument, no matter how many times it's put out there. Rape is illegal, regardless of where it takes place. If a man is a rapist, he should be arrested. What is stopping him from doing so are laws against rape and other violence to human beings.

Non-violent transwomen, who are in the bathroom to pee in a stall =/= rapists.

Transwomen who are made to use a men's room do have violence done against them.

They can use a unisex bathroom or a family bathroom which they probably do anyway to not make others uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So will you be in the bathroom enforcing that law? Guys are creeps. In the Dc area rape happens daily. Lot of pervs out there.

Problem: There is nobody in public restrooms to enforce laws against rape.
Solution: Pass a law requiring discrimination on the basis of gender identity.

Huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They can use a unisex bathroom or a family bathroom which they probably do anyway to not make others uncomfortable.

There is no right to not feel uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So will you be in the bathroom enforcing that law? Guys are creeps. In the Dc area rape happens daily. Lot of pervs out there.

Problem: There is nobody in public restrooms to enforce laws against rape.
Solution: Pass a law requiring discrimination on the basis of gender identity.

Huh?

THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So will you be in the bathroom enforcing that law? Guys are creeps. In the Dc area rape happens daily. Lot of pervs out there.

Problem: There is nobody in public restrooms to enforce laws against rape.
Solution: Pass a law requiring discrimination on the basis of gender identity.

Huh?

THIS.

Stupid reasoning. If letting a TG use the women's restroom then just let anyone with a penis use the women's restroom.Why stop at pre-op TG? Just let a man and woman use a bathroom at the same time. If a person walks naked in public then let everyone else walk naked in public and let's not expect any crime from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Actually, if you at all believe in science, some things are relatively simple, because they are stated facts. Please don't tell me that I also have to convince you that climate change is real, or perhaps evolution? Are you making up your own facts there, too?

Correct. But according to science, the relationships between chromosomes, genitalia, sex, and gender are actually not simple. Some of us like to believe that they are, but the fact is that they're not.

+1 and op of this comment and others, you ended your own argument when you said no one gets to tell you what you think. You don't get to tell trans* people what to think and what it means for them either. So I guess we all agree on something! Case closed.

Do I "get to tell you" that it's not going to be 90 degrees and sunny outside today? Or that 2 x 3 does not equal 15, no matter how much you wish it did? Or are you going to dispute those fact as well?

No, just like I don't get to tell you that your feelings about yourself are false, or that you're not dressed properly, or that people think you're hideous. See how that works? You stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine. Your calling things facts don't make them so, you do realize that, right? Wait, I'm sorry, I forgot. For people like you things are ONLY black or white, there are no shades of gray. Simple, simple person.

Big difference. Those things are not facts, merely your opinion. There are plenty of "facts" in this world. That you choose to deny reality is your personal little problem, but it doesn't change science -- biology, geology, math and so much more.

And one fact in the world is that trans people are MUCH more likely to be the victims of crimes in a bathroom than to commit crimes against non-trans people. What is not a fact is that this silly law is going to prevent bathroom crimes. In fact it will probably lead to more attacks against trans women by men who are angry to see them in their bathrooms.

Then here's an idea. Maybe women shouldn't go around dressed as men, and vice versus, and expect everyone else, including violent crazies, to just look always? If I decide to paint my body purple and run naked through a shopping mall skipping and singing, am I really to be surprised that some look at me askance and perhaps try to chase me down with the proverbial butterfly net?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, if you at all believe in science, some things are relatively simple, because they are stated facts. Please don't tell me that I also have to convince you that climate change is real, or perhaps evolution? Are you making up your own facts there, too?

Correct. But according to science, the relationships between chromosomes, genitalia, sex, and gender are actually not simple. Some of us like to believe that they are, but the fact is that they're not.

+1 and op of this comment and others, you ended your own argument when you said no one gets to tell you what you think. You don't get to tell trans* people what to think and what it means for them either. So I guess we all agree on something! Case closed.

Do I "get to tell you" that it's not going to be 90 degrees and sunny outside today? Or that 2 x 3 does not equal 15, no matter how much you wish it did? Or are you going to dispute those fact as well?

No, just like I don't get to tell you that your feelings about yourself are false, or that you're not dressed properly, or that people think you're hideous. See how that works? You stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine. Your calling things facts don't make them so, you do realize that, right? Wait, I'm sorry, I forgot. For people like you things are ONLY black or white, there are no shades of gray. Simple, simple person.

Big difference. Those things are not facts, merely your opinion. There are plenty of "facts" in this world. That you choose to deny reality is your personal little problem, but it doesn't change science -- biology, geology, math and so much more.

And one fact in the world is that trans people are MUCH more likely to be the victims of crimes in a bathroom than to commit crimes against non-trans people. What is not a fact is that this silly law is going to prevent bathroom crimes. In fact it will probably lead to more attacks against trans women by men who are angry to see them in their bathrooms.

Then here's an idea. Maybe women shouldn't go around dressed as men, and vice versus, and expect everyone else, including violent crazies, to just look always? If I decide to paint my body purple and run naked through a shopping mall skipping and singing, am I really to be surprised that some look at me askance and perhaps try to chase me down with the proverbial butterfly net?

Well...yes. You do you. If your painting your body purple and singing isn't harming yourself, me, or anyone else around us, who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, if you at all believe in science, some things are relatively simple, because they are stated facts. Please don't tell me that I also have to convince you that climate change is real, or perhaps evolution? Are you making up your own facts there, too?

Correct. But according to science, the relationships between chromosomes, genitalia, sex, and gender are actually not simple. Some of us like to believe that they are, but the fact is that they're not.

+1 and op of this comment and others, you ended your own argument when you said no one gets to tell you what you think. You don't get to tell trans* people what to think and what it means for them either. So I guess we all agree on something! Case closed.

Do I "get to tell you" that it's not going to be 90 degrees and sunny outside today? Or that 2 x 3 does not equal 15, no matter how much you wish it did? Or are you going to dispute those fact as well?

No, just like I don't get to tell you that your feelings about yourself are false, or that you're not dressed properly, or that people think you're hideous. See how that works? You stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine. Your calling things facts don't make them so, you do realize that, right? Wait, I'm sorry, I forgot. For people like you things are ONLY black or white, there are no shades of gray. Simple, simple person.

Big difference. Those things are not facts, merely your opinion. There are plenty of "facts" in this world. That you choose to deny reality is your personal little problem, but it doesn't change science -- biology, geology, math and so much more.

And one fact in the world is that trans people are MUCH more likely to be the victims of crimes in a bathroom than to commit crimes against non-trans people. What is not a fact is that this silly law is going to prevent bathroom crimes. In fact it will probably lead to more attacks against trans women by men who are angry to see them in their bathrooms.

Then here's an idea. Maybe women shouldn't go around dressed as men, and vice versus, and expect everyone else, including violent crazies, to just look always? If I decide to paint my body purple and run naked through a shopping mall skipping and singing, am I really to be surprised that some look at me askance and perhaps try to chase me down with the proverbial butterfly net?

Well...yes. You do you. If your painting your body purple and singing isn't harming yourself, me, or anyone else around us, who cares?

I tell you what. You stay in your Ritalin-Zoloft-pot induced state of denial-- what problems? I don't see any problems, no sir.ee, nothing unusual at all-- and the rest of us who are slightly more engaged in the world around us will continue to live our lives as well. Ok?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I tell you what. You stay in your Ritalin-Zoloft-pot induced state of denial-- what problems? I don't see any problems, no sir.ee, nothing unusual at all-- and the rest of us who are slightly more engaged in the world around us will continue to live our lives as well. Ok?

What problems, indeed? 17 states plus DC currently ban discrimination in public accommodations based on gender identity: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, DC, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington.

If banning discrimination in public accommodations based on gender identity led to problems, including dire public-restroom harms, then those problems (including dire public-restroom harms) would have already happened in those 17 states and DC. But they haven't.

[Anonymous]

Just wait until they staet leaving the seat up. You will all change your mind and the bathroom revolution will be born.

[Anonymous]

Do you all carry this fundamental misunderstanding that transgender people are just dressing up, drag queen style? Do you not understand that their physical attributes may not reflect the gender with which they identify? Can you not understand how hard it must be?