Help me to understand transgender identity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I tell you what. You stay in your Ritalin-Zoloft-pot induced state of denial-- what problems? I don't see any problems, no sir.ee, nothing unusual at all-- and the rest of us who are slightly more engaged in the world around us will continue to live our lives as well. Ok?

What problems, indeed? 17 states plus DC currently ban discrimination in public accommodations based on gender identity: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, DC, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington.

If banning discrimination in public accommodations based on gender identity led to problems, including dire public-restroom harms, then those problems (including dire public-restroom harms) would have already happened in those 17 states and DC. But they haven't.

+1000

I'm the PP who responded with "you do you." I don't take any of those medications, including pot (never done it, never interested), but I think your view of the world is interesting. Here's what I'm seeing here: People who choose not to accept, tolerate, or even try to understand people who are deferent from them, trying to pick fights with more inclusive folks...and then getting annoyed when we respond with logic (like PP), scientific evidence, and/or statements of tolerance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you all carry this fundamental misunderstanding that transgender people are just dressing up, drag queen style? Do you not understand that their physical attributes may not reflect the gender with which they identify? Can you not understand how hard it must be?

Right. And I choose to identify as a beagle, or perhaps a porcupine. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you all carry this fundamental misunderstanding that transgender people are just dressing up, drag queen style? Do you not understand that their physical attributes may not reflect the gender with which they identify? Can you not understand how hard it must be?

Right. And I choose to identify as a beagle, or perhaps a porcupine. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all.

Are you going around biting people or shooting spines? If you're injuring people, that's definitely not ok.

In (more) seriousness, do you not see a difference between believing you're not human, and knowing that your brain and body chemistry say you're something different from your outer biology? Still human.

[Anonymous]

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Actually, if you at all believe in science, some things are relatively simple, because they are stated facts. Please don't tell me that I also have to convince you that climate change is real, or perhaps evolution? Are you making up your own facts there, too?

Correct. But according to science, the relationships between chromosomes, genitalia, sex, and gender are actually not simple. Some of us like to believe that they are, but the fact is that they're not.

+1 and op of this comment and others, you ended your own argument when you said no one gets to tell you what you think. You don't get to tell trans* people what to think and what it means for them either. So I guess we all agree on something! Case closed.

Do I "get to tell you" that it's not going to be 90 degrees and sunny outside today? Or that 2 x 3 does not equal 15, no matter how much you wish it did? Or are you going to dispute those fact as well?

No, just like I don't get to tell you that your feelings about yourself are false, or that you're not dressed properly, or that people think you're hideous. See how that works? You stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine. Your calling things facts don't make them so, you do realize that, right? Wait, I'm sorry, I forgot. For people like you things are ONLY black or white, there are no shades of gray. Simple, simple person.

Big difference. Those things are not facts, merely your opinion. There are plenty of "facts" in this world. That you choose to deny reality is your personal little problem, but it doesn't change science -- biology, geology, math and so much more.

And one fact in the world is that trans people are MUCH more likely to be the victims of crimes in a bathroom than to commit crimes against non-trans people. What is not a fact is that this silly law is going to prevent bathroom crimes. In fact it will probably lead to more attacks against trans women by men who are angry to see them in their bathrooms.

Then here's an idea. Maybe women shouldn't go around dressed as men, and vice versus, and expect everyone else, including violent crazies, to just look always? If I decide to paint my body purple and run naked through a shopping mall skipping and singing, am I really to be surprised that some look at me askance and perhaps try to chase me down with the proverbial butterfly net?

Well there you have it. What you want to outlaw is the very idea of transgender. It creeps you out so you think it should be outlawed.

By the way, which bathrooms should someone who was born intersex use? (Used to be called hermaphroditism - it's a real condition: https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001669.htm)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you all carry this fundamental misunderstanding that transgender people are just dressing up, drag queen style? Do you not understand that their physical attributes may not reflect the gender with which they identify? Can you not understand how hard it must be?

Right. And I choose to identify as a beagle, or perhaps a porcupine. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all.

Are you going around biting people or shooting spines? If you're injuring people, that's definitely not ok.

In (more) seriousness, do you not see a difference between believing you're not human, and knowing that your brain and body chemistry say you're something different from your outer biology? Still human.

Absolutely not. Once you start denying reality -- e.g., the set of genitals right there in front of you, whether you choose to believe they are there or not -- the sky is the limit on craziness.

[Anonymous]

How is that the same people who insist we should all live by the "reality of the set of genitals right there in front of us" also swear there's a big invisible guy in the sky who agrees with them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this issue either. Democrat here. I don't think gay/transgender is morally wrong. But think transgender folks should use single bathrooms and if they aren't available they should use the one that matches their equipment.

So a biological woman who dresses as a man, is undergoing hormone treatment, and has grown a beard should join you (?) in the ladies room. And a biological man who dresses as a woman and is undergoing hormone treatment should use the men's room. Because we are not just (or even mostly) talking about folks who have just started the transition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is that the same people who insist we should all live by the "reality of the set of genitals right there in front of us" also swear there's a big invisible guy in the sky who agrees with them?

I assume you are referring to God although it is extremely off base to call Him an invisible guy in the sky. God became the ultimate in reality-- a flesh and blood human named Jesus of Nazareth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you all carry this fundamental misunderstanding that transgender people are just dressing up, drag queen style? Do you not understand that their physical attributes may not reflect the gender with which they identify? Can you not understand how hard it must be?

Right. And I choose to identify as a beagle, or perhaps a porcupine. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all.

Are you going around biting people or shooting spines? If you're injuring people, that's definitely not ok.

In (more) seriousness, do you not see a difference between believing you're not human, and knowing that your brain and body chemistry say you're something different from your outer biology? Still human.

Absolutely not. Once you start denying reality -- e.g., the set of genitals right there in front of you, whether you choose to believe they are there or not -- the sky is the limit on craziness.

Do you also believe that legalizing marriage equality leads to a "slippery slope" where people get to marry dogs? Because also not the same thing.

Again: understanding one's body chemistry and biology =/= imagining oneself to be a dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is that the same people who insist we should all live by the "reality of the set of genitals right there in front of us" also swear there's a big invisible guy in the sky who agrees with them?

I assume you are referring to God although it is extremely off base to call Him an invisible guy in the sky. God became the ultimate in reality-- a flesh and blood human named Jesus of Nazareth

I can't even.... Let me guess, you're the person spouting all the "facts." This just shows what a moron you really are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is that the same people who insist we should all live by the "reality of the set of genitals right there in front of us" also swear there's a big invisible guy in the sky who agrees with them?

I assume you are referring to God although it is extremely off base to call Him an invisible guy in the sky. God became the ultimate in reality-- a flesh and blood human named Jesus of Nazareth

I can't even.... Let me guess, you're the person spouting all the "facts." This just shows what a moron you really are.

I'm sorry... what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is that the same people who insist we should all live by the "reality of the set of genitals right there in front of us" also swear there's a big invisible guy in the sky who agrees with them?

I assume you are referring to God although it is extremely off base to call Him an invisible guy in the sky. God became the ultimate in reality-- a flesh and blood human named Jesus of Nazareth

I can't even.... Let me guess, you're the person spouting all the "facts." This just shows what a moron you really are.

I'm sorry... what?

It was pretty clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Absolutely not. Once you start denying reality -- e.g., the set of genitals right there in front of you, whether you choose to believe they are there or not -- the sky is the limit on craziness.

There is more to the reality of sex and gender than genitals. Human biology is complicated! For example, there are people whose chromosomes are XY and who have testes (internal), female external genitalia, and breasts. What is the reality of their sex and gender, and who gets to decide this?

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this issue either. Democrat here. I don't think gay/transgender is morally wrong. But think transgender folks should use single bathrooms and if they aren't available they should use the one that matches their equipment.

What if their gender presentation doesn't match their "equipment?" There are plenty of folks living their lives as women or men whose "equipment" has not been changed. Not all trans* folks choose to have "bottom surgery," either because it is prohibitively expensive, or because they want to preserve the chance for biological children, or because that is just their preference.

Exactly. You guys are sure going to feel great when a trans man - a biological woman who presents as a man - shows up in your women's bathroom. Then you will have a whole new set of rules about which bathroom should be used and when.

This whole "man in a dress" trope is silly. Your daughters aren't unsafe, because trans folks are using their preferred bathrooms.

Close the stall door. You will be fine.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

They are not "being themselves." They are costuming like its Halloween

You: I'm being myself.
Me: No, you're not. I know more about you than you do.

Then be yourself but not in the womens bathrooms. Last time we checked you have a penis and we don't, so you aren't like us.

Why are you checking people's genitalia?

Also, is that how you decide on people's gender when you meet them -- by checking on their genitalia? "Excuse me, sir, you look like a man, and you act like a man, and you say that you're a man, but you might not have the genitalia of a man, so could you please drop your pants and let me see for myself?"

You don't look as good as a woman as you think you do, PP. You look like a cartoonish characterization. Sorry but yes, we can tell.

But hey, whatever you want to do, that's cool with me. Just not in the women's bathroom which is, as designated by signage, for women. You are not a woman. You are a man who is pretending to be a woman, for reasons that make sense only to you.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and actually I'm a cisgender woman. Specifically, a cisgender woman who thinks that the world would be a better place if all people were allowed to pee in peace.

Totally agree with you. So why are so-called transgenders turning this into such a big deal? The world has been peeing peacefully in designated restrooms since time began.

Peacefully for you. Trans folks have been attacked in those so-called peaceful restrooms, in the meantime.

The world is changing. You are going to have a hard time, if you can't deal with it.