Asian Parents Broke Me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this in my own Asian family. Here is how it went down:


Son: I am interested in music. I think I like to play the guitar.

Mom: Why would you want to learn that instrument? They are for poor people. We're going to purchase a Steinway grand piano, and you're going to get weekly piano lessons. In addition to that, I am going to sign you up for piano competition events. You must finish in the top three, and if you fail to do that, you will not be allowed to hang out with your friends. You will be judged against other Asian kids, and do not make me look bad.

​Son: I love watching Novak Djokovic play tennis. He is the best tennis player.

Mom: I am going to enroll you into tennis bootcamps along with expensive private tennis lessons. You have to enter tournaments and become the best player in your age group. Other Asian parents posted on WeChat that their kids won tournaments, and I expect the same thing from you. If you have to give up time to hang out with your friends, so be it.

Son: I love art. I think it is cool.

Mom: I am going to sign you up for USArts. I expect you to be the best art student in your age group. I also expect you to come up with an art portfolio so that we can use it to enter art competitions. Other Asian parents brag about their kids winning art competitions, so I expect the same thing from you.

Son: I heard a lot about TJ. I would like to know more.

Mom: I am going to enroll you in Sunshine academy or Best academy. That way, they will prepare you for TJ prep exams. I expect you to be at TJ five years from now.


​Son: Mom, now that college commencement is over, I would like to move as far from you as I can. Thank you for making my childhood a living hell.

I am not Asian. Is it really like this?

I haven't watched the whole video, but I did watch the part about art and piano. There is no way to learn to play piano without regular practice which needs to include some of the boring stuff (scales etc). Nothing is fun all the time.

You can learn to do anything “good enough” for it to be fun. You absolutely do not need to practice scales to learn to play piano “good enough” to just do it for the sheer pleasure of playing.

Would you make your son take lessons on how to throw a proper spiral just because he wants to toss the ole pigskin around with the other guys on Thanksgiving?

I guess I just never met that person - a person who plays piano for the pleasure of playing without actually learning how to play it. Guitar - maybe. Violin - absolutely no way.

You seriously can’t fathom learning to play some songs on literally any instrument without practicing scales?

You can’t imagine looking at sheet music and being able to assign those 7 whole notes to the white keys, and that the notes in the vertical middle of the bar are in the middle of the piano? Higher ones to the right, lower to the left? Half notes are the black keys? You could learn this in about half an hour.

DP who posted right above. I also cannot imagine anyone learning how to play an instrument in half and hour in a way such that they would want to listen to themselves play or subject others to their own playing. Even for an instrument as pleasant sounding as the piano. In half an hour, I can imagine someone learning to play chopsticks in an annoying way. I grew up in a family with perfect pitch and many of us played instruments for fun, non-competitively, but this still required some practice and dedication.

But does it require *practicing scales* which is what you originally said?

Yes, it does.

[Anonymous]

I think his parents parented how they thought good parents should. They weren't conditioned to see any beyond that.

However, they couldn't instill fundamental Asian value, of understanding and appreciating parental sacrifices. He turned out to be a whiny, ungrateful young internet adult who has no appreciation for his privileges.

This is more of a lesson for Asian parents to not focus whole life on first doing "good kid duty" and "good adult kid duty" towards their own parents and the go on to doing "good parent duty" towards their kids. No one is ever satisfied or grateful so better do basic duties well and then just focus on their own lives.YOLO.

Also use family THERAPY so everyone can benefit from good mental health and learn to balance their roles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very clear that A) very few people watch the entire video and B) people have no idea the extent of what these kids go through. We live in a very intense suburb of New York City, where the recent Chinese immigrant parents routinely beat their children, lock them outside in the cold, and withhold food from them. Yes, the perspective is that it is not as bad as what would happen if they were sent back to their ohome country so this is the price that needs to be paid for the freedom of living in America and getting a good job. But it is horrible and sad for these children and routinely once they graduate college they never speak to the parents again. Maybe that cost benefit analysis is done and the parents feel like they have saved them the hardship of having to grow up in communist China, but it is still sad, nevertheless especially when they look around to their friends and see them going to Disney World and having birthday parties.

But there is an ocean of difference between locking your kids out in the cold and insisting that they stick with violin lessons through high school. Laying rules for what you expect from your child is so individual to the family.

My kids might call me a tiger mom since I expect high standards. And really don’t accept a ton of excuses. But I know what my kids are capable of and don’t ask them to do something they cannot (for example, I have one kid who hates English and cannot write. I expect him to learn how to write but I won’t expect him to take AP English or to crank out A+ essays). I also don’t force them into any EC they don’t want. But having high standards and not being happy with mediocre effort may have someone on the outside thinking I am stealing their childhood or something. They’ll live. And be better for it.

And when they go low or no contact with you someday, just remember: you’ll live.

Obviously nobody can know what tomorrow brings. But I am raising my children pretty much as my parents raised me with high expectations and lots of love. My sisters and I adore our parents. DH was raised in a similar fashion and we are close to his family. So I am not worried.

Sure. Lots of love provided they rise to your high expectations. Seen this movie before.

Having no expectations of kids is bad for them. No, parents cannot make a kid who is tone deaf into an opera singer. But the opera singer does not create herself with only passion - she needs structure and guidance. Some of which is not fun.

I dont think its my job to pick my kid's path for them. However, I do think it is my job to teach them about grit, about hard work, about setting goals. For me, that is what "high expectations" are. You have to learn do your best. It is neglectful parenting not to hold your children to standards (that you know that they can meet).

[Anonymous]

Asian cultures got this way due to imbalance of population and resources. Just survival is a cut throat competition there.

[Anonymous]

I feel like in my South-Asian circle, most parents who emulated tiger parenting, pushing competitiveness and STEM, most of their kids ended up with higher earning potential careers and still loving their parents. They also spent less by sending their kids to local colleges on merit and living at home to avoid financial stress on parents or kids. They also had free money left to spend on wedding of their kids and their own retirement.

[Anonymous]

*Obviously I'm not privy to their children's mental health or grievances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a thing young adults are all doing now - analyzing their childhoods with a focus on all the ways their parents were not perfect. They have no idea what it's like to try to raise children, and the choices we have to make. It's our job to make sure they have what they need to be successful, and there is no instruction manual to follow to make that happen. You did your best. You can certainly try to tweak your parenting to avoid putting so much pressure on the younger siblings, but you should not feel awful. Your kid went to an Ivy. Some of the rest of us are feeling awful because our kids can barely get into a state school.

Yes, parents want their kids to be successful, do well in school, good grades, college ect. And hopefully become successful adults, but you don't have to steal their childhoods for that.

Please provide a link to the instruction manual entitled "How to raise successful children without stealing their childhood," and also a link to the one that provides the precise criteria for "stealing their childhood" versus "parenting." I would like to see that data.

Your response (which you clearly think is clever) is actually a perfect example of the type of rigid personality that leads to stealing your kids’ childhoods.

That's because you didn't understand it. I was pointing out that "stealing childhood" is a very subjective idea. How is one supposed to know where that line is? There is NO INSTRUCTION MANUAL. Perhaps the problem is people like you, who think you know everything.

No, I understood you just fine. You have further proved my point with your “NO INSTRUCTION MANUAL” defense.

Wow! I would really, really hate to be your kid.

Really? Why?

Because you’re a monster

Am I? How do you mean?

NP here. I would say because you are inflexible, argumentative, close-minded, and have a superiority complex.

LOL . Says the person demanding instruction manuals and “precise criteria” in order to raise her kids without making them miserable…

No. Says me... the new poster. But if your takeaway from the "instruction manual" post is that they are demanding manuals and precise criteria in order to raise kids, then I cannot help you (or your kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this in my own Asian family. Here is how it went down:


Son: I am interested in music. I think I like to play the guitar.

Mom: Why would you want to learn that instrument? They are for poor people. We're going to purchase a Steinway grand piano, and you're going to get weekly piano lessons. In addition to that, I am going to sign you up for piano competition events. You must finish in the top three, and if you fail to do that, you will not be allowed to hang out with your friends. You will be judged against other Asian kids, and do not make me look bad.

​Son: I love watching Novak Djokovic play tennis. He is the best tennis player.

Mom: I am going to enroll you into tennis bootcamps along with expensive private tennis lessons. You have to enter tournaments and become the best player in your age group. Other Asian parents posted on WeChat that their kids won tournaments, and I expect the same thing from you. If you have to give up time to hang out with your friends, so be it.

Son: I love art. I think it is cool.

Mom: I am going to sign you up for USArts. I expect you to be the best art student in your age group. I also expect you to come up with an art portfolio so that we can use it to enter art competitions. Other Asian parents brag about their kids winning art competitions, so I expect the same thing from you.

Son: I heard a lot about TJ. I would like to know more.

Mom: I am going to enroll you in Sunshine academy or Best academy. That way, they will prepare you for TJ prep exams. I expect you to be at TJ five years from now.


​Son: Mom, now that college commencement is over, I would like to move as far from you as I can. Thank you for making my childhood a living hell.

I am not Asian. Is it really like this?

I haven't watched the whole video, but I did watch the part about art and piano. There is no way to learn to play piano without regular practice which needs to include some of the boring stuff (scales etc). Nothing is fun all the time.

You can learn to do anything “good enough” for it to be fun. You absolutely do not need to practice scales to learn to play piano “good enough” to just do it for the sheer pleasure of playing.

Would you make your son take lessons on how to throw a proper spiral just because he wants to toss the ole pigskin around with the other guys on Thanksgiving?

I guess I just never met that person - a person who plays piano for the pleasure of playing without actually learning how to play it. Guitar - maybe. Violin - absolutely no way.

You seriously can’t fathom learning to play some songs on literally any instrument without practicing scales?

You can’t imagine looking at sheet music and being able to assign those 7 whole notes to the white keys, and that the notes in the vertical middle of the bar are in the middle of the piano? Higher ones to the right, lower to the left? Half notes are the black keys? You could learn this in about half an hour.

DP who posted right above. I also cannot imagine anyone learning how to play an instrument in half and hour in a way such that they would want to listen to themselves play or subject others to their own playing. Even for an instrument as pleasant sounding as the piano. In half an hour, I can imagine someone learning to play chopsticks in an annoying way. I grew up in a family with perfect pitch and many of us played instruments for fun, non-competitively, but this still required some practice and dedication.

But does it require *practicing scales* which is what you originally said?

(Obviously it does not. Come on.)

I'm not the original PP you were talking to, btw. But yeah, in order to improvise and play in a "fun" group, I knew my scales pretty well. Even the people I know who are self taught but play well enough to impress and audience were actually disciplined about honing skills and practicing. If you just want to plunk notes without understanding much, I'm sure you could learn to play a lot of sheet music without knowing anything about scales. But even then, learning how to play in a way that doesn't torment the neighbors takes a bit of effort. My point was, and I think you agree, kids shouldn't be forced to continue when the interest isn't there. For most teens "interest" just means learning how to play a few favorite pop or classical tunes over and over again, and this is fine.

Yeah, I do agree with your last point. (So don’t force a kid to learn scales when they don’t want to learn scales just because you think that’s the *right* way to learn.)

(And unless you’re just a toddler mashing the keys, piano is not a “torment the neighbors” instrument.)

I’m sure you’re great at the piano, but one doesn’t need to be great, or even aspire to be great, to play the piano for fun. Which I think is basically the point of the guy’s video. Can’t I just learn to play Christmas music or show tunes without being pressured to improvise in a fun group? Who cares?!

At some point in my childhood, I really did not see the point of scales or theory. I was always into music and always wanted to take lessons, but wasn't until much later, after years of lessons that things clicked and I understood the point of all those technique and theory exercises. If my parents or teacher had just let me do whatever I wanted, I doubt I would have learned scales or theory, which was at times a real chore. But then later I wouldn't have been able to compose music, or play with some of the groups I did, and I would have lost out on a great experience which is still part of my identity today. There's a big difference in saying "chain the disinterested kids to the piano!" vs "never ask them to do scales or anything not fun!" There's a reasonable middle ground here: "If they want lessons, sometimes they have to do the boring stuff too." I don't think I'll ever convince you to learn your scales, but they are actually pretty handy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian cultures got this way due to imbalance of population and resources. Just survival is a cut throat competition there.

given the job market these days, this applies anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like in my South-Asian circle, most parents who emulated tiger parenting, pushing competitiveness and STEM, most of their kids ended up with higher earning potential careers and still loving their parents. They also spent less by sending their kids to local colleges on merit and living at home to avoid financial stress on parents or kids. They also had free money left to spend on wedding of their kids and their own retirement.

yes, this is the style of a lot of Asian immigrant parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very clear that A) very few people watch the entire video and B) people have no idea the extent of what these kids go through. We live in a very intense suburb of New York City, where the recent Chinese immigrant parents routinely beat their children, lock them outside in the cold, and withhold food from them. Yes, the perspective is that it is not as bad as what would happen if they were sent back to their ohome country so this is the price that needs to be paid for the freedom of living in America and getting a good job. But it is horrible and sad for these children and routinely once they graduate college they never speak to the parents again. Maybe that cost benefit analysis is done and the parents feel like they have saved them the hardship of having to grow up in communist China, but it is still sad, nevertheless especially when they look around to their friends and see them going to Disney World and having birthday parties.

But there is an ocean of difference between locking your kids out in the cold and insisting that they stick with violin lessons through high school. Laying rules for what you expect from your child is so individual to the family.

My kids might call me a tiger mom since I expect high standards. And really don’t accept a ton of excuses. But I know what my kids are capable of and don’t ask them to do something they cannot (for example, I have one kid who hates English and cannot write. I expect him to learn how to write but I won’t expect him to take AP English or to crank out A+ essays). I also don’t force them into any EC they don’t want. But having high standards and not being happy with mediocre effort may have someone on the outside thinking I am stealing their childhood or something. They’ll live. And be better for it.

And when they go low or no contact with you someday, just remember: you’ll live.

Obviously nobody can know what tomorrow brings. But I am raising my children pretty much as my parents raised me with high expectations and lots of love. My sisters and I adore our parents. DH was raised in a similar fashion and we are close to his family. So I am not worried.

Sure. Lots of love provided they rise to your high expectations. Seen this movie before.

Having no expectations of kids is bad for them. No, parents cannot make a kid who is tone deaf into an opera singer. But the opera singer does not create herself with only passion - she needs structure and guidance. Some of which is not fun.

I dont think its my job to pick my kid's path for them. However, I do think it is my job to teach them about grit, about hard work, about setting goals. For me, that is what "high expectations" are. You have to learn do your best. It is neglectful parenting not to hold your children to standards (that you know that they can meet).

Such black and white thinking. There is a whole, wonderful world between high expectations and no expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a thing young adults are all doing now - analyzing their childhoods with a focus on all the ways their parents were not perfect. They have no idea what it's like to try to raise children, and the choices we have to make. It's our job to make sure they have what they need to be successful, and there is no instruction manual to follow to make that happen. You did your best. You can certainly try to tweak your parenting to avoid putting so much pressure on the younger siblings, but you should not feel awful. Your kid went to an Ivy. Some of the rest of us are feeling awful because our kids can barely get into a state school.

Yes, parents want their kids to be successful, do well in school, good grades, college ect. And hopefully become successful adults, but you don't have to steal their childhoods for that.

Please provide a link to the instruction manual entitled "How to raise successful children without stealing their childhood," and also a link to the one that provides the precise criteria for "stealing their childhood" versus "parenting." I would like to see that data.

Your response (which you clearly think is clever) is actually a perfect example of the type of rigid personality that leads to stealing your kids’ childhoods.

That's because you didn't understand it. I was pointing out that "stealing childhood" is a very subjective idea. How is one supposed to know where that line is? There is NO INSTRUCTION MANUAL. Perhaps the problem is people like you, who think you know everything.

No, I understood you just fine. You have further proved my point with your “NO INSTRUCTION MANUAL” defense.

Wow! I would really, really hate to be your kid.

Really? Why?

Because you’re a monster

Am I? How do you mean?

NP here. I would say because you are inflexible, argumentative, close-minded, and have a superiority complex.

LOL . Says the person demanding instruction manuals and “precise criteria” in order to raise her kids without making them miserable…

No. Says me... the new poster. But if your takeaway from the "instruction manual" post is that they are demanding manuals and precise criteria in order to raise kids, then I cannot help you (or your kids).

Great! No one asked for your help, ya dingbat!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this in my own Asian family. Here is how it went down:


Son: I am interested in music. I think I like to play the guitar.

Mom: Why would you want to learn that instrument? They are for poor people. We're going to purchase a Steinway grand piano, and you're going to get weekly piano lessons. In addition to that, I am going to sign you up for piano competition events. You must finish in the top three, and if you fail to do that, you will not be allowed to hang out with your friends. You will be judged against other Asian kids, and do not make me look bad.

​Son: I love watching Novak Djokovic play tennis. He is the best tennis player.

Mom: I am going to enroll you into tennis bootcamps along with expensive private tennis lessons. You have to enter tournaments and become the best player in your age group. Other Asian parents posted on WeChat that their kids won tournaments, and I expect the same thing from you. If you have to give up time to hang out with your friends, so be it.

Son: I love art. I think it is cool.

Mom: I am going to sign you up for USArts. I expect you to be the best art student in your age group. I also expect you to come up with an art portfolio so that we can use it to enter art competitions. Other Asian parents brag about their kids winning art competitions, so I expect the same thing from you.

Son: I heard a lot about TJ. I would like to know more.

Mom: I am going to enroll you in Sunshine academy or Best academy. That way, they will prepare you for TJ prep exams. I expect you to be at TJ five years from now.


​Son: Mom, now that college commencement is over, I would like to move as far from you as I can. Thank you for making my childhood a living hell.

I am not Asian. Is it really like this?

I haven't watched the whole video, but I did watch the part about art and piano. There is no way to learn to play piano without regular practice which needs to include some of the boring stuff (scales etc). Nothing is fun all the time.

You can learn to do anything “good enough” for it to be fun. You absolutely do not need to practice scales to learn to play piano “good enough” to just do it for the sheer pleasure of playing.

Would you make your son take lessons on how to throw a proper spiral just because he wants to toss the ole pigskin around with the other guys on Thanksgiving?

I guess I just never met that person - a person who plays piano for the pleasure of playing without actually learning how to play it. Guitar - maybe. Violin - absolutely no way.

You seriously can’t fathom learning to play some songs on literally any instrument without practicing scales?

You can’t imagine looking at sheet music and being able to assign those 7 whole notes to the white keys, and that the notes in the vertical middle of the bar are in the middle of the piano? Higher ones to the right, lower to the left? Half notes are the black keys? You could learn this in about half an hour.

DP who posted right above. I also cannot imagine anyone learning how to play an instrument in half and hour in a way such that they would want to listen to themselves play or subject others to their own playing. Even for an instrument as pleasant sounding as the piano. In half an hour, I can imagine someone learning to play chopsticks in an annoying way. I grew up in a family with perfect pitch and many of us played instruments for fun, non-competitively, but this still required some practice and dedication.

But does it require *practicing scales* which is what you originally said?

(Obviously it does not. Come on.)

I'm not the original PP you were talking to, btw. But yeah, in order to improvise and play in a "fun" group, I knew my scales pretty well. Even the people I know who are self taught but play well enough to impress and audience were actually disciplined about honing skills and practicing. If you just want to plunk notes without understanding much, I'm sure you could learn to play a lot of sheet music without knowing anything about scales. But even then, learning how to play in a way that doesn't torment the neighbors takes a bit of effort. My point was, and I think you agree, kids shouldn't be forced to continue when the interest isn't there. For most teens "interest" just means learning how to play a few favorite pop or classical tunes over and over again, and this is fine.

Yeah, I do agree with your last point. (So don’t force a kid to learn scales when they don’t want to learn scales just because you think that’s the *right* way to learn.)

(And unless you’re just a toddler mashing the keys, piano is not a “torment the neighbors” instrument.)

I’m sure you’re great at the piano, but one doesn’t need to be great, or even aspire to be great, to play the piano for fun. Which I think is basically the point of the guy’s video. Can’t I just learn to play Christmas music or show tunes without being pressured to improvise in a fun group? Who cares?!

At some point in my childhood, I really did not see the point of scales or theory. I was always into music and always wanted to take lessons, but wasn't until much later, after years of lessons that things clicked and I understood the point of all those technique and theory exercises. If my parents or teacher had just let me do whatever I wanted, I doubt I would have learned scales or theory, which was at times a real chore. But then later I wouldn't have been able to compose music, or play with some of the groups I did, and I would have lost out on a great experience which is still part of my identity today. There's a big difference in saying "chain the disinterested kids to the piano!" vs "never ask them to do scales or anything not fun!" There's a reasonable middle ground here: "If they want lessons, sometimes they have to do the boring stuff too." I don't think I'll ever convince you to learn your scales, but they are actually pretty handy.

I play multiple instruments and my parents only involvement was attending the occasional concert.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat, but so many posting on this thread are far too rigid to grasp that.

[Anonymous]

This kid is a dope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw this in my own Asian family. Here is how it went down:


Son: I am interested in music. I think I like to play the guitar.

Mom: Why would you want to learn that instrument? They are for poor people. We're going to purchase a Steinway grand piano, and you're going to get weekly piano lessons. In addition to that, I am going to sign you up for piano competition events. You must finish in the top three, and if you fail to do that, you will not be allowed to hang out with your friends. You will be judged against other Asian kids, and do not make me look bad.

​Son: I love watching Novak Djokovic play tennis. He is the best tennis player.

Mom: I am going to enroll you into tennis bootcamps along with expensive private tennis lessons. You have to enter tournaments and become the best player in your age group. Other Asian parents posted on WeChat that their kids won tournaments, and I expect the same thing from you. If you have to give up time to hang out with your friends, so be it.

Son: I love art. I think it is cool.

Mom: I am going to sign you up for USArts. I expect you to be the best art student in your age group. I also expect you to come up with an art portfolio so that we can use it to enter art competitions. Other Asian parents brag about their kids winning art competitions, so I expect the same thing from you.

Son: I heard a lot about TJ. I would like to know more.

Mom: I am going to enroll you in Sunshine academy or Best academy. That way, they will prepare you for TJ prep exams. I expect you to be at TJ five years from now.


​Son: Mom, now that college commencement is over, I would like to move as far from you as I can. Thank you for making my childhood a living hell.

I am not Asian. Is it really like this?

I haven't watched the whole video, but I did watch the part about art and piano. There is no way to learn to play piano without regular practice which needs to include some of the boring stuff (scales etc). Nothing is fun all the time.

You can learn to do anything “good enough” for it to be fun. You absolutely do not need to practice scales to learn to play piano “good enough” to just do it for the sheer pleasure of playing.

Would you make your son take lessons on how to throw a proper spiral just because he wants to toss the ole pigskin around with the other guys on Thanksgiving?

I guess I just never met that person - a person who plays piano for the pleasure of playing without actually learning how to play it. Guitar - maybe. Violin - absolutely no way.

You seriously can’t fathom learning to play some songs on literally any instrument without practicing scales?

You can’t imagine looking at sheet music and being able to assign those 7 whole notes to the white keys, and that the notes in the vertical middle of the bar are in the middle of the piano? Higher ones to the right, lower to the left? Half notes are the black keys? You could learn this in about half an hour.

DP who posted right above. I also cannot imagine anyone learning how to play an instrument in half and hour in a way such that they would want to listen to themselves play or subject others to their own playing. Even for an instrument as pleasant sounding as the piano. In half an hour, I can imagine someone learning to play chopsticks in an annoying way. I grew up in a family with perfect pitch and many of us played instruments for fun, non-competitively, but this still required some practice and dedication.

But does it require *practicing scales* which is what you originally said?

(Obviously it does not. Come on.)

I'm not the original PP you were talking to, btw. But yeah, in order to improvise and play in a "fun" group, I knew my scales pretty well. Even the people I know who are self taught but play well enough to impress and audience were actually disciplined about honing skills and practicing. If you just want to plunk notes without understanding much, I'm sure you could learn to play a lot of sheet music without knowing anything about scales. But even then, learning how to play in a way that doesn't torment the neighbors takes a bit of effort. My point was, and I think you agree, kids shouldn't be forced to continue when the interest isn't there. For most teens "interest" just means learning how to play a few favorite pop or classical tunes over and over again, and this is fine.

Yeah, I do agree with your last point. (So don’t force a kid to learn scales when they don’t want to learn scales just because you think that’s the *right* way to learn.)

(And unless you’re just a toddler mashing the keys, piano is not a “torment the neighbors” instrument.)

I’m sure you’re great at the piano, but one doesn’t need to be great, or even aspire to be great, to play the piano for fun. Which I think is basically the point of the guy’s video. Can’t I just learn to play Christmas music or show tunes without being pressured to improvise in a fun group? Who cares?!

At some point in my childhood, I really did not see the point of scales or theory. I was always into music and always wanted to take lessons, but wasn't until much later, after years of lessons that things clicked and I understood the point of all those technique and theory exercises. If my parents or teacher had just let me do whatever I wanted, I doubt I would have learned scales or theory, which was at times a real chore. But then later I wouldn't have been able to compose music, or play with some of the groups I did, and I would have lost out on a great experience which is still part of my identity today. There's a big difference in saying "chain the disinterested kids to the piano!" vs "never ask them to do scales or anything not fun!" There's a reasonable middle ground here: "If they want lessons, sometimes they have to do the boring stuff too." I don't think I'll ever convince you to learn your scales, but they are actually pretty handy.

I play multiple instruments and my parents only involvement was attending the occasional concert.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat, but so many posting on this thread are far too rigid to grasp that.

Yep, and you definitely strike me as one of those black and white rigid thinkers.