Why isn’t giorgia meloni being lauded as a #girlboss ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her take on Macron is one of the best take downs of another foreign leader/country I've seen. She completely decimated him/France in a speech about root causes of immigration from Africa, child labor, and stripping natural resources. If this is who they have running the fascist party, Italy is in trouble because she is a really good communicator.

I mean, so were Hitler and Mussolini.

Well yes. That was exactly the point.

What she said wasn't wrong though. France and other Europeans actively degrade and destabilize countries in Africa. Suggesting that perhaps the west shouldn't be destabilizing countries and causing mass migration but instead should be trading/doing business with them is a good point. It shouldn't be lost because you don't like her politics.

Her party's program states it is against marriage equality, gay parents adopting children, and surrogate motherhood.

You are not discussing this in good faith.

Why is surrogate motherhood more important than child labor in the mines of Niger? As she points out France gets a good portion of it's uranium from Niger so while the Eiffel Tower is lit daily using Niger's material, most people in Niger don't have electricity at all.

You are not having a serious discussion.

Lots of Americans don’t have what the incoming migrants are given. Yet you support open borders.

[Anonymous]

Does Meloni accept that trans women are women, full stop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does Meloni accept that trans women are women, full stop?

Why should that matter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to a speech by Meloni. She sounds amazing. She wants people to be proud of themselves and their culture.

That isnt fascism. We have pride parades, pride month, a pride flag. If you can be proud of your sexuality, you can be proud of other parts of your identity. She is right, people want to make you erase your identity and be told who you are. Shes right to encourage people to fully embrace their identities.

Except the entire argument is based on a strawman. No one wants to take away her Christianity, motherhood, or feminine identity. She is saying “be proud” of these things because things she doesn’t agree with - secularism, child-free lifestyle, shifting gender and sexual identities - are “wicked” and need to be destroyed. She’s adopted a First Strike doctrine to restrict personal choice and liberties that, at its heart, is based on a series of lies.

Unfortunately, I know people heavily involved in the ‘values’ that LGBTQ ‘inspires’. Hateful and nasty doesn’t even begin to describe it. There’s no room for tolerance of any kind because if you don’t keep up with the jargon du jour, you are bigoted, etc. This is not a tolerant group of people, sadly. It’s their way or the highway. I have always had a ‘you do you’ attitude, but I DO feel this movement does NOT. They want to be them and you have to go along with it all - their way or the highway. They think nothing of destroying lives and livelihoods over simple errors, especially if you are involved in education or entertainment. These aren’t values, this is a movement. What you are seeing in Italy is a backlash against that.

Ok so what’s the “backlash” going to involve? State clearly what you intend to do to LBGTQ people and families. Stop beating around the bush like a coward.

Ps - don’t interact with LBGTQ folks if you don’t like their lifestyle. That’s all reactionary conservatives need to do. Instead, y’all are determined to resurrect the worst dregs of fascist ideology from history as part of your “backlash.” Why can’t you just be chill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to a speech by Meloni. She sounds amazing. She wants people to be proud of themselves and their culture.

That isnt fascism. We have pride parades, pride month, a pride flag. If you can be proud of your sexuality, you can be proud of other parts of your identity. She is right, people want to make you erase your identity and be told who you are. Shes right to encourage people to fully embrace their identities.

Except the entire argument is based on a strawman. No one wants to take away her Christianity, motherhood, or feminine identity. She is saying “be proud” of these things because things she doesn’t agree with - secularism, child-free lifestyle, shifting gender and sexual identities - are “wicked” and need to be destroyed. She’s adopted a First Strike doctrine to restrict personal choice and liberties that, at its heart, is based on a series of lies.

Unfortunately, I know people heavily involved in the ‘values’ that LGBTQ ‘inspires’. Hateful and nasty doesn’t even begin to describe it. There’s no room for tolerance of any kind because if you don’t keep up with the jargon du jour, you are bigoted, etc. This is not a tolerant group of people, sadly. It’s their way or the highway. I have always had a ‘you do you’ attitude, but I DO feel this movement does NOT. They want to be them and you have to go along with it all - their way or the highway. They think nothing of destroying lives and livelihoods over simple errors, especially if you are involved in education or entertainment. These aren’t values, this is a movement. What you are seeing in Italy is a backlash against that.

Ok so what’s the “backlash” going to involve? State clearly what you intend to do to LBGTQ people and families. Stop beating around the bush like a coward.

Ps - don’t interact with LBGTQ folks if you don’t like their lifestyle. That’s all reactionary conservatives need to do. Instead, y’all are determined to resurrect the worst dregs of fascist ideology from history as part of your “backlash.” Why can’t you just be chill?

Hilarious. As I stated, I have a ‘you do you’ attitude. I really don’t CARE what people do with their lives. I have a problem when someone tries to destroy someone else because they have a different set of values. This means, in my mind, if Christians, conservative Jews, etc. don’t want to adopt the LGBTQ lifestyle, or don’t feel they want to use the pronouns, they should not be forced to do so. On the other hand, if someone chooses not to verify the LGBTQ lifestyle in exactly the manner that LGBTQ want them to, it become all out war. Why can’t they just be chill and let people think individually?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Meloni accept that trans women are women, full stop?

Why should that matter?

She gives off intolerant vibes; she could very well be a TERf.

I want to re think our planned Italian holiday if it means supporting a country that is not supporting trans rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to a speech by Meloni. She sounds amazing. She wants people to be proud of themselves and their culture.

That isnt fascism. We have pride parades, pride month, a pride flag. If you can be proud of your sexuality, you can be proud of other parts of your identity. She is right, people want to make you erase your identity and be told who you are. Shes right to encourage people to fully embrace their identities.

Except the entire argument is based on a strawman. No one wants to take away her Christianity, motherhood, or feminine identity. She is saying “be proud” of these things because things she doesn’t agree with - secularism, child-free lifestyle, shifting gender and sexual identities - are “wicked” and need to be destroyed. She’s adopted a First Strike doctrine to restrict personal choice and liberties that, at its heart, is based on a series of lies.

Unfortunately, I know people heavily involved in the ‘values’ that LGBTQ ‘inspires’. Hateful and nasty doesn’t even begin to describe it. There’s no room for tolerance of any kind because if you don’t keep up with the jargon du jour, you are bigoted, etc. This is not a tolerant group of people, sadly. It’s their way or the highway. I have always had a ‘you do you’ attitude, but I DO feel this movement does NOT. They want to be them and you have to go along with it all - their way or the highway. They think nothing of destroying lives and livelihoods over simple errors, especially if you are involved in education or entertainment. These aren’t values, this is a movement. What you are seeing in Italy is a backlash against that.

Ok so what’s the “backlash” going to involve? State clearly what you intend to do to LBGTQ people and families. Stop beating around the bush like a coward.

Ps - don’t interact with LBGTQ folks if you don’t like their lifestyle. That’s all reactionary conservatives need to do. Instead, y’all are determined to resurrect the worst dregs of fascist ideology from history as part of your “backlash.” Why can’t you just be chill?

Hilarious. As I stated, I have a ‘you do you’ attitude. I really don’t CARE what people do with their lives. I have a problem when someone tries to destroy someone else because they have a different set of values. This means, in my mind, if Christians, conservative Jews, etc. don’t want to adopt the LGBTQ lifestyle, or don’t feel they want to use the pronouns, they should not be forced to do so. On the other hand, if someone chooses not to verify the LGBTQ lifestyle in exactly the manner that LGBTQ want them to, it become all out war. Why can’t they just be chill and let people think individually?

If I called you a pig to your face every time I spoke to you then you would just smile and nod, right? You do you and all.

But of course you wouldn’t put up with being disrespected like that in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does Meloni accept that trans women are women, full stop?

I bet she doesn’t. And a lot of women don’t either. A PP talked about “you do you” and that is it. I have nothing agains trans women or trans men. But they are “trans…” I do not agree, nor does basic science, that they are the same as biological women. And I will never back down on this. I have a period, I have endometriosis, I have menopausal symptoms coming my way. I have tender boobs at different times of the month and debilitation menstrual cramps. I have stretch marks and an 8 inch cesarean scar. I have breast fed and bad that milk leak thru my shirt and I have had post partum depression. I have been excluded from business trips at my law firm because the boys wanted to hang out (strip clubs) when I was the lead associate on the case. I have lived the life of a women. My whole life. And I do not accept and never will that someone can have surgery and take hormones and suddenly be a women. No. I do not accept that and frankly most people don’t. Again, I don’t want trans people to feel like they can’t live the way they want to live but they aren’t the same as me. Just like men aren’t the same as me. That doesn’t mean they are less or should be denied baskc rights but I do not buy into the fallacy that they are actually the gender they want to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to a speech by Meloni. She sounds amazing. She wants people to be proud of themselves and their culture.

That isnt fascism. We have pride parades, pride month, a pride flag. If you can be proud of your sexuality, you can be proud of other parts of your identity. She is right, people want to make you erase your identity and be told who you are. Shes right to encourage people to fully embrace their identities.

She is an actual fascist.

Ive heard no cogent argument as to why she is a fascist.

I am not sure what more cogent argument you need, should she knock at your door and tell you in your face? Her party is the direct descendant of the post WWII Italian fascist party (FYI, in Italy recreating the fascist party and showing symbols of the fascist party is actually a crime. So after WWII many right wing people ended up in the Democrazia Cristiana party, the militant fascist fringe created a party called Movimento Sociale Fiamma Tricolore (last two words mean “tricolor flame” or the flame with the three colors green white and red of the Italian flag). In the 90s in Italy many changes happens for all parties (including the communist party). melonis party is the direct descendant of the Movimento Sociale party and it has the symbol of the flame with the color of the Italian flag that she refused to remove.

Maybe this is still not enough for you but the members of the party know very well who they are. Link below is from something that happened last week, not fifty years ago, in Milan at the funeral of a guy where participants, including Romano La Russa, who is from Meloni’s party and is member of the government of the Lombardia region snd brother or Ignazio La Russa, one of the most important members of the party, marched behind the casket repeatedly doing the fascist Roman salute .

I can add tons of similar examples of member of the party expressly honoring Mussolini, doing fascist salute, wearing black shirt (that was the fascist uniform) and so on.



https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2022/09/21/il-saluto-fascista-dellassessore-romano-la-russa-fdi-lo-spiega-cosi-invitava-i-presenti-ad-astenersi-dal-farlo/6811764/amp/

What are specific fascist policies she’s looking to implement?

For example, Liz truss part wrote a manifesto on her vision of what uk policifal-economy should be and is followinf thru on it this week for better or worse.

Im not saying truss is right or wrong, but I know what she is trying to do in concrete terms.

What is meloni clearly trying to do? Ok she doesn’t like lgbtq and immigrants.

Is there legislation and/or security proposals to curtail this like truss has done with her pet issues (tax rates).

I keep hearing the term “facist” but what does this mean in policy terms?

“Ok she doesn’t like lgbtq and immigrants.”

Wow. Just wow.

“Ok she doesn’t like the disabled.”

“Ok she doesn’t like Jews.”

“Ok she doesn’t like black people.”

“Ok she doesn’t like Roma people.”

When is it ever ok for a country's leader to hold such views?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to a speech by Meloni. She sounds amazing. She wants people to be proud of themselves and their culture.

That isnt fascism. We have pride parades, pride month, a pride flag. If you can be proud of your sexuality, you can be proud of other parts of your identity. She is right, people want to make you erase your identity and be told who you are. Shes right to encourage people to fully embrace their identities.

Except the entire argument is based on a strawman. No one wants to take away her Christianity, motherhood, or feminine identity. She is saying “be proud” of these things because things she doesn’t agree with - secularism, child-free lifestyle, shifting gender and sexual identities - are “wicked” and need to be destroyed. She’s adopted a First Strike doctrine to restrict personal choice and liberties that, at its heart, is based on a series of lies.

Unfortunately, I know people heavily involved in the ‘values’ that LGBTQ ‘inspires’. Hateful and nasty doesn’t even begin to describe it. There’s no room for tolerance of any kind because if you don’t keep up with the jargon du jour, you are bigoted, etc. This is not a tolerant group of people, sadly. It’s their way or the highway. I have always had a ‘you do you’ attitude, but I DO feel this movement does NOT. They want to be them and you have to go along with it all - their way or the highway. They think nothing of destroying lives and livelihoods over simple errors, especially if you are involved in education or entertainment. These aren’t values, this is a movement. What you are seeing in Italy is a backlash against that.

Ok so what’s the “backlash” going to involve? State clearly what you intend to do to LBGTQ people and families. Stop beating around the bush like a coward.

Ps - don’t interact with LBGTQ folks if you don’t like their lifestyle. That’s all reactionary conservatives need to do. Instead, y’all are determined to resurrect the worst dregs of fascist ideology from history as part of your “backlash.” Why can’t you just be chill?

Hilarious. As I stated, I have a ‘you do you’ attitude. I really don’t CARE what people do with their lives. I have a problem when someone tries to destroy someone else because they have a different set of values. This means, in my mind, if Christians, conservative Jews, etc. don’t want to adopt the LGBTQ lifestyle, or don’t feel they want to use the pronouns, they should not be forced to do so. On the other hand, if someone chooses not to verify the LGBTQ lifestyle in exactly the manner that LGBTQ want them to, it become all out war. Why can’t they just be chill and let people think individually?

If I called you a pig to your face every time I spoke to you then you would just smile and nod, right? You do you and all.

But of course you wouldn’t put up with being disrespected like that in real life.

I do all the time. And I smile and nod. Why engage with idiocy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to a speech by Meloni. She sounds amazing. She wants people to be proud of themselves and their culture.

That isnt fascism. We have pride parades, pride month, a pride flag. If you can be proud of your sexuality, you can be proud of other parts of your identity. She is right, people want to make you erase your identity and be told who you are. Shes right to encourage people to fully embrace their identities.

Except the entire argument is based on a strawman. No one wants to take away her Christianity, motherhood, or feminine identity. She is saying “be proud” of these things because things she doesn’t agree with - secularism, child-free lifestyle, shifting gender and sexual identities - are “wicked” and need to be destroyed. She’s adopted a First Strike doctrine to restrict personal choice and liberties that, at its heart, is based on a series of lies.

Unfortunately, I know people heavily involved in the ‘values’ that LGBTQ ‘inspires’. Hateful and nasty doesn’t even begin to describe it. There’s no room for tolerance of any kind because if you don’t keep up with the jargon du jour, you are bigoted, etc. This is not a tolerant group of people, sadly. It’s their way or the highway. I have always had a ‘you do you’ attitude, but I DO feel this movement does NOT. They want to be them and you have to go along with it all - their way or the highway. They think nothing of destroying lives and livelihoods over simple errors, especially if you are involved in education or entertainment. These aren’t values, this is a movement. What you are seeing in Italy is a backlash against that.

Ok so what’s the “backlash” going to involve? State clearly what you intend to do to LBGTQ people and families. Stop beating around the bush like a coward.

Ps - don’t interact with LBGTQ folks if you don’t like their lifestyle. That’s all reactionary conservatives need to do. Instead, y’all are determined to resurrect the worst dregs of fascist ideology from history as part of your “backlash.” Why can’t you just be chill?

Hilarious. As I stated, I have a ‘you do you’ attitude. I really don’t CARE what people do with their lives. I have a problem when someone tries to destroy someone else because they have a different set of values. This means, in my mind, if Christians, conservative Jews, etc. don’t want to adopt the LGBTQ lifestyle, or don’t feel they want to use the pronouns, they should not be forced to do so. On the other hand, if someone chooses not to verify the LGBTQ lifestyle in exactly the manner that LGBTQ want them to, it become all out war. Why can’t they just be chill and let people think individually?

To destroy someone else because they have a different set of values. You are referring to conservatives who want to dissolve same sex marriages I presume?

And hey, I have never met an lgbtq person who wants hetero conservatives to become lgbtq. What a weird thing to claim. I’m sure that there are lgbtq people in the conservative community living a straight lifestyle and suppressing their true selves. But conversion therapy is something straight conservatives promote, not the other way around. You want to know why? Because lgbtq people know you can’t pray away the gay. Or the hetero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to a speech by Meloni. She sounds amazing. She wants people to be proud of themselves and their culture.

That isnt fascism. We have pride parades, pride month, a pride flag. If you can be proud of your sexuality, you can be proud of other parts of your identity. She is right, people want to make you erase your identity and be told who you are. Shes right to encourage people to fully embrace their identities.

Except the entire argument is based on a strawman. No one wants to take away her Christianity, motherhood, or feminine identity. She is saying “be proud” of these things because things she doesn’t agree with - secularism, child-free lifestyle, shifting gender and sexual identities - are “wicked” and need to be destroyed. She’s adopted a First Strike doctrine to restrict personal choice and liberties that, at its heart, is based on a series of lies.

Unfortunately, I know people heavily involved in the ‘values’ that LGBTQ ‘inspires’. Hateful and nasty doesn’t even begin to describe it. There’s no room for tolerance of any kind because if you don’t keep up with the jargon du jour, you are bigoted, etc. This is not a tolerant group of people, sadly. It’s their way or the highway. I have always had a ‘you do you’ attitude, but I DO feel this movement does NOT. They want to be them and you have to go along with it all - their way or the highway. They think nothing of destroying lives and livelihoods over simple errors, especially if you are involved in education or entertainment. These aren’t values, this is a movement. What you are seeing in Italy is a backlash against that.

Ok so what’s the “backlash” going to involve? State clearly what you intend to do to LBGTQ people and families. Stop beating around the bush like a coward.

Ps - don’t interact with LBGTQ folks if you don’t like their lifestyle. That’s all reactionary conservatives need to do. Instead, y’all are determined to resurrect the worst dregs of fascist ideology from history as part of your “backlash.” Why can’t you just be chill?

Hilarious. As I stated, I have a ‘you do you’ attitude. I really don’t CARE what people do with their lives. I have a problem when someone tries to destroy someone else because they have a different set of values. This means, in my mind, if Christians, conservative Jews, etc. don’t want to adopt the LGBTQ lifestyle, or don’t feel they want to use the pronouns, they should not be forced to do so. On the other hand, if someone chooses not to verify the LGBTQ lifestyle in exactly the manner that LGBTQ want them to, it become all out war. Why can’t they just be chill and let people think individually?

If I called you a pig to your face every time I spoke to you then you would just smile and nod, right? You do you and all.

But of course you wouldn’t put up with being disrespected like that in real life.

I do all the time. And I smile and nod. Why engage with idiocy?

Define all the time. You have someone in your life who harasses you daily and you just smile without complaint? And is it someone in a position of authority over you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Meloni accept that trans women are women, full stop?

Why should that matter?

She gives off intolerant vibes; she could very well be a TERf.

I want to re think our planned Italian holiday if it means supporting a country that is not supporting trans rights.

Italy won’t be getting our money; we spend 5k/day on family holidays. We’ll look to Scandinavia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her take on Macron is one of the best take downs of another foreign leader/country I've seen. She completely decimated him/France in a speech about root causes of immigration from Africa, child labor, and stripping natural resources. If this is who they have running the fascist party, Italy is in trouble because she is a really good communicator.

I mean, so were Hitler and Mussolini.

Well yes. That was exactly the point.

What she said wasn't wrong though. France and other Europeans actively degrade and destabilize countries in Africa. Suggesting that perhaps the west shouldn't be destabilizing countries and causing mass migration but instead should be trading/doing business with them is a good point. It shouldn't be lost because you don't like her politics.

Her party's program states it is against marriage equality, gay parents adopting children, and surrogate motherhood.

You are not discussing this in good faith.

So her goal will be to reject any goods, food or energy form any countries that are poorer then Italy?

Why is surrogate motherhood more important than child labor in the mines of Niger? As she points out France gets a good portion of it's uranium from Niger so while the Eiffel Tower is lit daily using Niger's material, most people in Niger don't have electricity at all.

You are not having a serious discussion.

No, her point was to create trade and more equitable deals with Africa so that people are not so desperate that they need to leave in the first place. She pointed to the energy deal that Libya's Gaddafi made with Italy before he was taken out by France . Or how Gaddafi was trying to implement a better centralized banking system across Africa but France put a stop to that as well.

You do realize that it is possible to enter deals with African nations that are fair, right? You don't have to reject all goods but maybe not strip them of resources that their own people need and instead help them use those resources to improve their lives. But that would require Europeans to see Africans as human which we know is a problem for some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to a speech by Meloni. She sounds amazing. She wants people to be proud of themselves and their culture.

That isnt fascism. We have pride parades, pride month, a pride flag. If you can be proud of your sexuality, you can be proud of other parts of your identity. She is right, people want to make you erase your identity and be told who you are. Shes right to encourage people to fully embrace their identities.

Except the entire argument is based on a strawman. No one wants to take away her Christianity, motherhood, or feminine identity. She is saying “be proud” of these things because things she doesn’t agree with - secularism, child-free lifestyle, shifting gender and sexual identities - are “wicked” and need to be destroyed. She’s adopted a First Strike doctrine to restrict personal choice and liberties that, at its heart, is based on a series of lies.

Unfortunately, I know people heavily involved in the ‘values’ that LGBTQ ‘inspires’. Hateful and nasty doesn’t even begin to describe it. There’s no room for tolerance of any kind because if you don’t keep up with the jargon du jour, you are bigoted, etc. This is not a tolerant group of people, sadly. It’s their way or the highway. I have always had a ‘you do you’ attitude, but I DO feel this movement does NOT. They want to be them and you have to go along with it all - their way or the highway. They think nothing of destroying lives and livelihoods over simple errors, especially if you are involved in education or entertainment. These aren’t values, this is a movement. What you are seeing in Italy is a backlash against that.

Ok so what’s the “backlash” going to involve? State clearly what you intend to do to LBGTQ people and families. Stop beating around the bush like a coward.

Ps - don’t interact with LBGTQ folks if you don’t like their lifestyle. That’s all reactionary conservatives need to do. Instead, y’all are determined to resurrect the worst dregs of fascist ideology from history as part of your “backlash.” Why can’t you just be chill?

Hilarious. As I stated, I have a ‘you do you’ attitude. I really don’t CARE what people do with their lives. I have a problem when someone tries to destroy someone else because they have a different set of values. This means, in my mind, if Christians, conservative Jews, etc. don’t want to adopt the LGBTQ lifestyle, or don’t feel they want to use the pronouns, they should not be forced to do so. On the other hand, if someone chooses not to verify the LGBTQ lifestyle in exactly the manner that LGBTQ want them to, it become all out war. Why can’t they just be chill and let people think individually?

If I called you a pig to your face every time I spoke to you then you would just smile and nod, right? You do you and all.

But of course you wouldn’t put up with being disrespected like that in real life.

I do all the time. And I smile and nod. Why engage with idiocy?

Define all the time. You have someone in your life who harasses you daily and you just smile without complaint? And is it someone in a position of authority over you?

There are a lot of options between harrassing trans people daily, and agreeing that someone born one gender is actually biologically a different gender regardless of their body parts. Most people fall into the "okay, I disagree but its not my business" camp, and that should be okay. You shouldnt have to agree with it.