Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

Funny, I won’t date men who will stand by and do nothing as a violent sociopath threatens to harm me and others around me. But you do you.

Violent, drug addicted sociopath. Don’t forget he was high as a kite on K2 while he threatened that child and the other passengers on the train. If Penny wasn’t there, an innocent person would have died on that train. Possibly more than one.

Just like George Floyd. I wonder what Fox News and the usual suspect are saying about this incident. They are probably using the same talking points they used to describe George Floyd. He died of drugs. He also died from pre-existing conditions. He would have died anyway. Dude standing on his neck had nothing to do with it! haha Crazy what people will believe.

They are saying a man was killed for riding a subway. Ridiculous. Wrong again, just like George Floyd.

Huh? He's a hero for conservatives, not unlike Kyle Rittenhouse.

I’m a Democrat and have never voted for a conservative or a Republican, but I also appreciate what he did and think it’s ridiculous that he was charged. I saw that JD Vance apparently tweeted something similar today and it’s the first time I’ve ever agreed with him about anything.

I’m a woman who rides the subway regularly and have personally experienced being in a train car with an unhinged person. It’s terrifying, and I deeply respect someone who is willing to be a Good Samaritan in these situations (because, as seen in this case, you’re liable to be villainized and even charged if something goes wrong). While it’s sad on a human level that someone died, and I wouldn’t actively wish death on him, much like the healthcare CEO, I’m also not shedding tears for this person - a violent criminal who regularly menaced and assaulted innocent people on the streets and in the subway.

I bet you loved what happened to ol George Floyd too.

NP here. No, i think his entire life was sad and wish he'd stayed away from drugs and crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who lived in NYC and regularly rode the subway both then and later, Penny’s acquittal is great news. Riding the subway is often not for the faint of heart and riders depend on the guardian angels not to sit back passively when crazy people start harassing riders.

As for Alvin Bragg, he is a disgrace who has no business having any prosecutorial authority. His decision to charge Penny in the first place made most New Yorkers feel less safe in their city, and the sooner this incompetent buffoon leaves his position the better.

+1000. I am a NYC resident and I completely agree with you. It was an insane decision to charge Penny on these facts, and I am very, very relieved he was acquitted.

Yes, I think many people will justify criminal behavior due to fear or frustration with a system that has allowed things to get out of control.

I’m the PP you’re responding to. In addition to being a NYC resident and regular subway rider, I’m also a lawyer, and I don’t agree that Penny’s behavior was criminal. I think it met the legal elements of self defense. I think the decision to charge him was stupid and a waste of prosecutorial resources, on the legal merits, and was likely significantly influenced by the fact that Penny is white and Neely is Black (which had zero relevance to this situation).

I'm not sure if being a lawyer is very relevant here. Having knowledge about BJJ is critical to determining if Neely was a threat. At the very least, you need to learn quite a bit before you can come to any reasonable determination whether the force used was appropriate.

It’s relevant because self-defense is an actual legal concept with specific elements, and in my view (clearly also in the jury’s view) Penny’s conduct satisfied those elements. In a situation like that, where you need to act within seconds to neutralize what appears to be a serious, imminent, and potentially lethal threat to yourself and others, and as a PP mentioned above, your body is flooded with adrenaline (i.e., exactly the circumstances necessitating self-defense), you’re not in a position in that split second to weigh all the information and make the most perfect judgment of the exact amount of force needed to incapacitate the person. Distinguish this from a case like the murder of Breona Taylor, which was clearly an unjustified and unreasonable use of force.

Here, Penny was very obviously not acting maliciously. There was a credible and immediate threat to everyone’s safety, he was acting in the defense of himself and others, and he acted to incapacitate Neely, which had the unfortunate result that he died. And “reasonable use of force” is something that’s easy to calculate after the fact, harder in the moment. Legally justified self defense doesn’t exclude the possibility that the aggressor dies. Sometimes it happens, and it happened here. There really shouldn’t have been charges at all.

Maybe you are a new lawyer? I say this because many people who have zero experience outside of academia don't fully grasp that there is a big difference between theory and real life. They also think they know more than they actually know. You read about a concept and are attempting to apply it to a scenario, but it doesn't really fit.

… except the jury acquitted so obviously PP is correct

OJ was also acquitted, but everyone basically acknowledges he killed his wife. The outcome of a trial and the truth are not the same thing at all.

Not much of a comparison between these two cases at all. Brutally murdering your wife in a jealous rage is not like subduing a drug addled psycho making threats against others. It would be similar if Nicole had put a murderous OJ in a headlock and was victorious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

Funny, I won’t date men who will stand by and do nothing as a violent sociopath threatens to harm me and others around me. But you do you.

Violent, drug addicted sociopath. Don’t forget he was high as a kite on K2 while he threatened that child and the other passengers on the train. If Penny wasn’t there, an innocent person would have died on that train. Possibly more than one.

Just like George Floyd. I wonder what Fox News and the usual suspect are saying about this incident. They are probably using the same talking points they used to describe George Floyd. He died of drugs. He also died from pre-existing conditions. He would have died anyway. Dude standing on his neck had nothing to do with it! haha Crazy what people will believe.

People on K2 can go into cardiac arrest easily. I don’t know the George Floyd case as well but that’s what killed this addict. He was trippin and he went into cardiac arrest when he was restrained. It was in the testimony by the medical examiner.

I didn't see that. Maybe you are referring to the pathologist testifying on behalf of the defense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

Funny, I won’t date men who will stand by and do nothing as a violent sociopath threatens to harm me and others around me. But you do you.

Violent, drug addicted sociopath. Don’t forget he was high as a kite on K2 while he threatened that child and the other passengers on the train. If Penny wasn’t there, an innocent person would have died on that train. Possibly more than one.

Just like George Floyd. I wonder what Fox News and the usual suspect are saying about this incident. They are probably using the same talking points they used to describe George Floyd. He died of drugs. He also died from pre-existing conditions. He would have died anyway. Dude standing on his neck had nothing to do with it! haha Crazy what people will believe.

They are saying a man was killed for riding a subway. Ridiculous. Wrong again, just like George Floyd.

Huh? He's a hero for conservatives, not unlike Kyle Rittenhouse.

I’m a Democrat and have never voted for a conservative or a Republican, but I also appreciate what he did and think it’s ridiculous that he was charged. I saw that JD Vance apparently tweeted something similar today and it’s the first time I’ve ever agreed with him about anything.

I’m a woman who rides the subway regularly and have personally experienced being in a train car with an unhinged person. It’s terrifying, and I deeply respect someone who is willing to be a Good Samaritan in these situations (because, as seen in this case, you’re liable to be villainized and even charged if something goes wrong). While it’s sad on a human level that someone died, and I wouldn’t actively wish death on him, much like the healthcare CEO, I’m also not shedding tears for this person - a violent criminal who regularly menaced and assaulted innocent people on the streets and in the subway.

I bet you loved what happened to ol George Floyd too.

NP here. No, i think his entire life was sad and wish he'd stayed away from drugs and crime.

That's your main take away from that case? Fox news in da house baby! Bahaha

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who lived in NYC and regularly rode the subway both then and later, Penny’s acquittal is great news. Riding the subway is often not for the faint of heart and riders depend on the guardian angels not to sit back passively when crazy people start harassing riders.

As for Alvin Bragg, he is a disgrace who has no business having any prosecutorial authority. His decision to charge Penny in the first place made most New Yorkers feel less safe in their city, and the sooner this incompetent buffoon leaves his position the better.

+1000. I am a NYC resident and I completely agree with you. It was an insane decision to charge Penny on these facts, and I am very, very relieved he was acquitted.

Yes, I think many people will justify criminal behavior due to fear or frustration with a system that has allowed things to get out of control.

I’m the PP you’re responding to. In addition to being a NYC resident and regular subway rider, I’m also a lawyer, and I don’t agree that Penny’s behavior was criminal. I think it met the legal elements of self defense. I think the decision to charge him was stupid and a waste of prosecutorial resources, on the legal merits, and was likely significantly influenced by the fact that Penny is white and Neely is Black (which had zero relevance to this situation).

I'm not sure if being a lawyer is very relevant here. Having knowledge about BJJ is critical to determining if Neely was a threat. At the very least, you need to learn quite a bit before you can come to any reasonable determination whether the force used was appropriate.

It’s relevant because self-defense is an actual legal concept with specific elements, and in my view (clearly also in the jury’s view) Penny’s conduct satisfied those elements. In a situation like that, where you need to act within seconds to neutralize what appears to be a serious, imminent, and potentially lethal threat to yourself and others, and as a PP mentioned above, your body is flooded with adrenaline (i.e., exactly the circumstances necessitating self-defense), you’re not in a position in that split second to weigh all the information and make the most perfect judgment of the exact amount of force needed to incapacitate the person. Distinguish this from a case like the murder of Breona Taylor, which was clearly an unjustified and unreasonable use of force.

Here, Penny was very obviously not acting maliciously. There was a credible and immediate threat to everyone’s safety, he was acting in the defense of himself and others, and he acted to incapacitate Neely, which had the unfortunate result that he died. And “reasonable use of force” is something that’s easy to calculate after the fact, harder in the moment. Legally justified self defense doesn’t exclude the possibility that the aggressor dies. Sometimes it happens, and it happened here. There really shouldn’t have been charges at all.

Maybe you are a new lawyer? I say this because many people who have zero experience outside of academia don't fully grasp that there is a big difference between theory and real life. They also think they know more than they actually know. You read about a concept and are attempting to apply it to a scenario, but it doesn't really fit.

PP again. No, I’m not a new lawyer. My assessment, which I discussed in the quoted post, is that Penny’s actions were legally justified self-defense, and that on these facts, I would not bring criminal charges of any kind against Penny if I were a prosecutor. And as a NYC taxpayer, I think doing so was a waste of resources and a bad decision by Bragg’s office. Obviously reasonable people can and do disagree on the law, so feel free. But I am glad the jury agreed with me! I think it’s a just outcome and the best one for New Yorkers.

Bragg is laser focused on nailing white men to death. He’s a complete loser scum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

Funny, I won’t date men who will stand by and do nothing as a violent sociopath threatens to harm me and others around me. But you do you.

Violent, drug addicted sociopath. Don’t forget he was high as a kite on K2 while he threatened that child and the other passengers on the train. If Penny wasn’t there, an innocent person would have died on that train. Possibly more than one.

Just like George Floyd. I wonder what Fox News and the usual suspect are saying about this incident. They are probably using the same talking points they used to describe George Floyd. He died of drugs. He also died from pre-existing conditions. He would have died anyway. Dude standing on his neck had nothing to do with it! haha Crazy what people will believe.

They are saying a man was killed for riding a subway. Ridiculous. Wrong again, just like George Floyd.

Huh? He's a hero for conservatives, not unlike Kyle Rittenhouse.

Huh? Are you slow?

Learn how to write something that actually makes sense, puto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

Funny, I won’t date men who will stand by and do nothing as a violent sociopath threatens to harm me and others around me. But you do you.

Violent, drug addicted sociopath. Don’t forget he was high as a kite on K2 while he threatened that child and the other passengers on the train. If Penny wasn’t there, an innocent person would have died on that train. Possibly more than one.

Just like George Floyd. I wonder what Fox News and the usual suspect are saying about this incident. They are probably using the same talking points they used to describe George Floyd. He died of drugs. He also died from pre-existing conditions. He would have died anyway. Dude standing on his neck had nothing to do with it! haha Crazy what people will believe.

They are saying a man was killed for riding a subway. Ridiculous. Wrong again, just like George Floyd.

Huh? He's a hero for conservatives, not unlike Kyle Rittenhouse.

Huh? Are you slow?

Learn how to write something that actually makes sense, puto.

So, you’re slow. It’s ok. Maybe you will be on the right side of history next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

Funny, I won’t date men who will stand by and do nothing as a violent sociopath threatens to harm me and others around me. But you do you.

Violent, drug addicted sociopath. Don’t forget he was high as a kite on K2 while he threatened that child and the other passengers on the train. If Penny wasn’t there, an innocent person would have died on that train. Possibly more than one.

Just like George Floyd. I wonder what Fox News and the usual suspect are saying about this incident. They are probably using the same talking points they used to describe George Floyd. He died of drugs. He also died from pre-existing conditions. He would have died anyway. Dude standing on his neck had nothing to do with it! haha Crazy what people will believe.

They are saying a man was killed for riding a subway. Ridiculous. Wrong again, just like George Floyd.

Huh? He's a hero for conservatives, not unlike Kyle Rittenhouse.

I’m a Democrat and have never voted for a conservative or a Republican, but I also appreciate what he did and think it’s ridiculous that he was charged. I saw that JD Vance apparently tweeted something similar today and it’s the first time I’ve ever agreed with him about anything.

I’m a woman who rides the subway regularly and have personally experienced being in a train car with an unhinged person. It’s terrifying, and I deeply respect someone who is willing to be a Good Samaritan in these situations (because, as seen in this case, you’re liable to be villainized and even charged if something goes wrong). While it’s sad on a human level that someone died, and I wouldn’t actively wish death on him, much like the healthcare CEO, I’m also not shedding tears for this person - a violent criminal who regularly menaced and assaulted innocent people on the streets and in the subway.

I bet you loved what happened to ol George Floyd too.

NP here. No, i think his entire life was sad and wish he'd stayed away from drugs and crime.

That's your main take away from that case? Fox news in da house baby! Bahaha

Not at all. I've read how he tried to help people and turn his life around. I wish he could have continued in that positive direction and never come in contact with his murderer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So glad justice was served. This is good for society in general as people won’t be afraid to stand up to bullies and people who threaten to harm others.

This. I heard a wise black woman comment:
God didn’t give you men testosterone just for the gym.

[Anonymous]

I’m really thankful he was found not guilty!! He was trying to help and people were scared. He didn’t mean for this to happen. This is a good thing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of Sean Hannity's rocket scientist viewers is posting on this thread

You’re going to be so disappointed in the outcome of this trial.

Considering the fact that you don't seem to know anything about the case and probably don't even know the difference between manslaughter and 2nd degree murder, I don't think anyone is considering your opinions/prediction.

Love how the idiot lawyer or someone pretending to be a lawyer was wrong, as predicted. So typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of Sean Hannity's rocket scientist viewers is posting on this thread

You’re going to be so disappointed in the outcome of this trial.

Considering the fact that you don't seem to know anything about the case and probably don't even know the difference between manslaughter and 2nd degree murder, I don't think anyone is considering your opinions/prediction.

Love how the idiot lawyer or someone pretending to be a lawyer was wrong, as predicted. So typical.

The dcum troll won a coin toss and is now the smartest guy in the room lmao

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sad. Vigilante justice cannot be condoned.

It’s the only option left when law enforcement won’t do its job.

What would have been “sad” would have been that lunatic killing someone’s mom on the subway.

Law enforcement did their job, they arrested this maniac 42 times. It’s the judges and DA’s like buffoon Alvin Bragg who choose not to prosecute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who lived in NYC and regularly rode the subway both then and later, Penny’s acquittal is great news. Riding the subway is often not for the faint of heart and riders depend on the guardian angels not to sit back passively when crazy people start harassing riders.

As for Alvin Bragg, he is a disgrace who has no business having any prosecutorial authority. His decision to charge Penny in the first place made most New Yorkers feel less safe in their city, and the sooner this incompetent buffoon leaves his position the better.

+1000. I am a NYC resident and I completely agree with you. It was an insane decision to charge Penny on these facts, and I am very, very relieved he was acquitted.

Yes, I think many people will justify criminal behavior due to fear or frustration with a system that has allowed things to get out of control.

I’m the PP you’re responding to. In addition to being a NYC resident and regular subway rider, I’m also a lawyer, and I don’t agree that Penny’s behavior was criminal. I think it met the legal elements of self defense. I think the decision to charge him was stupid and a waste of prosecutorial resources, on the legal merits, and was likely significantly influenced by the fact that Penny is white and Neely is Black (which had zero relevance to this situation).

There were two lawyers on the jury and they also agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

I agree. I would much rather date a beta cuck who watches from a corner while a violent, drug addicted psychopath smashes in my face and kidnaps our daughter.