S/O - insights from professors?

[Anonymous]

I’ve been especially interested in reading posts by professors— for a while now, and most recently in the thread about AP inflation.

I’d love to hear from any professors about what you’re seeing in terms of preparedness — academic, social, soft skills, etc.; what you wish students’ families knew; ways we can support our kids before they head off to school; how you think about college (admissions and experiences there) for your own kids.

Thanks in advance (if you’re willing)

[Anonymous]

At T10 research-focused university. Here’s what I wish parents knew.

1. Digital distraction is a problem. TAs who sit in the back can see what students are doing on their laptops during lecture. Some are always checking email, doing other homework, scrolling social media, flipping back and forth between tabs, etc. This has long been a problem but definitely worse since the pandemic. Hardly a surprising revelation, but kids who stay engaged tend to do very well.
2. Related to previous point, please talk to teens about small-class etiquette. Recently saw one student in a small seminar continually checking his phone, chuckling to himself during a discussion and it distracted everybody. I had never seen this before. Friends at other schools also tell me their students have weaker class etiquette, perhaps due to remote learning. Remind them it's a good idea to close the laptop with its distractions and stay engaged. This is crucial in small seminars, when mutual participation is the whole point. Seems obvious, but apparently is not.
3. If your teens are not used to small discussion based classes in high school, encourage them to get out of their comfort zone and try to participate more when they take seminars.
4. Some freshmen struggle if their HS courses mainly emphasized memorization, because harder classes emphasize conceptual understanding. If they get a bad grade on the first hw or exam, become a regular at TA/prof office hours. Say “here are the major concepts as I understood them from this lecture…(re-explain concepts in their own words)…do I have it right or is there anything I am missing?” Also, find peers to study with.
5. In-person office hours are the best place to get help. Much better than emailing.
6. Intellectually curious students make my day!
7. Discourage them from seeing the prof only to ask for a better grade. I won’t bend grades for one student because it is unfair to the rest of the class.
8. School fit (and major fit) are way more important than prestige. A few kids who are completely failing my exams based on hard skill performance blow me away with their public speaking abilities. With some guidance on content, they can give the most confident and charming presentations in the class. I really like these kids and want them to succeed but I can’t give them As and Bs unless they can earn these grades. I sometimes wonder to myself whether they would have been better off going to a school where they could be academic big fish and graduate with a higher gpa (for grad/med schools), instead of crying over D’s and C’s on exams that were easy for the rest of the class.
9. Students who struggle academically are not the only ones with mental health issues, and depressed/anxious students often don’t share their grief with friends or family. Don’t assume they would tell you if they were suffering. They are really good at hiding it. They sometimes tell me because they need to explain why they stopped showing up to classes or didn't turn in work, but I would never be able to tell otherwise. Remind them frequently of their value apart from grades or career.
10. I have nothing to do with the admissions office. I don’t necessarily understand or agree with admissions practices.

Overall I think the students are great and wish them the best. I hope the anxious perfectionist types will relax and go easier on themselves. I hope the distracted ones learn to focus.

[Anonymous]

I teach at a community college. I love the honesty students have been presenting in class lately. They show up as their authentic selves which makes it easier for me to connect with them from day one. They aren't afraid to be specific about their lives outside of class, which can help me mentor them in making solid decisions based on their life's circumstances.

We are having many students with more diagnosed mental health issues, which I assume is a combination of more students having them and the students who were diagnosed in high school deciding to stay home to continue therapy.

The younger students are more scared than ever before. It's always been difficult for freshman to take risks, but it's extremely hard for me to convince them to try something new--even on ungraded draft papers. And so, they freeze and don't turn anything in, or they utilize AI beyond just getting started and end up with a plagerism charge.

Generative AI is the hot button topic among the administration and my colleagues: how to utilize it ourselves, what to teach students about it for their job fields, how to ensure they aren't using it for writing and coding assignments that should be done by hand. I imagine nearly every student will utilize AI in their courses as an assigned task in the next few years.

I totally agree with previous poster about office hours. We even do ours virtually where students can "drop in" on Zoom. Any student who comes usually ends up with at least one letter grade higher than when they started the class.

There is a lot of pressure at the CC to declare a major since the applied degrees have a very structured track with prerequisites, and the transfer degrees are broad but certain universities want specific courses. This is why going to orientations, finding a specific advisor to help, joining clubs to meet other students, etc. is important. The more information they can get, the better it is.

FAFSA stuff really is a mess. This is going to impact our students (many who receive full Pell grants) if it still can't be figured out before August 1 when tutition is due.

As a parent, I know that it is hard, but please step back and let your child fail. Failing in college does not mean failing at life. And college faculty and administration do not bend to parents at all in the way I've seen K-12 do. Fill out the request for FERPA release before you want the grades, attendance, etc. It will be an easier conversation to have with your child before they are in trouble than during or after.

I have rising 9th and 6th graders. I usually just sit back on these conversations. The desire for so many posters to have students go to top tier schools is crazy to me. Perhaps its because we don't have a lot saved for college to afford full tuition, but I will be pushing my children to look at schools where they can receive merit-based aid. The new federal regulations around debit to income ratio should help really illuminate if liberal arts majors are all working in low-paying jobs.

[Anonymous]

Yikes. Sorry for wall of text and lack of formatting in 1st post.

To PP regarding office hours: Yes! The ones who come regularly grow so much. Even the complaints come across better in person than over email.

[Anonymous]

This advice helps all kids, super intelligent or not. Let's assume everyone is doing the best they can with rigor and academic effort.

Tell your kids to check their email often and teach them how to respond/write an email. In the real world right now people rely heavily on email: when they are in charge in the 2050s perhaps they can teach young people to text and message or whatever it the new normal, but for now in school and work it's usually email. They will create frustration, miss messages, and potentially miss out on jobs and opportunities if they are not checking email.

Teach your kids to write well: review their work if their school doesn't provide this, give feedback, look for opportunities to enhance their ability to communicate in writing. This includes things like not using "text speak" or too casual of a tone as well as too formal of a tone that reeks of AI or gram marly.

Emphasize the importance of deadlines and no-retakes. If a test is on 5/22 start preparing for it 5/15 and do not plan to take it more than once.

Get them to have a basic understanding of current events. They can't put TikTok down? Ok. Find SOMETHING to explain current events in TikTok. It is so demoralizing to mention a significant weather event or prominent political figure or national or international disaster or controversy and have them blankly stare. This will matter when they converse with professors and colleagues or interviewers.

Take your ear buds out unless you are alone or not in a setting where you have to learn, pay attention, or communicate that you are listening (and one ear bud does not convey that you are listening with the "free" ear). Learn to be OK with just...being in a room without a device.

[Anonymous]

Great posts! Keep 'em coming!

[Anonymous]

I've actually posted this before, but here it is again because it really does represent what I think.

Here is a professor's wish list for sending a kid off to college. If:

-> they have stable, strong relationships with family and friends that can support them at a distance

-> they are resilient and can set aside minor setbacks and contextualize major ones

-> they are independent and have sufficient executive skills to get up on time, eat decently, care for their health, get where they need to go, and do most of their homework

-> they like themselves and are ok with spending time alone and exploring their world on their own sometimes

-> they have a personal toolbox for initiating connections with new friends and building positive relationships with others

-> they are reasonably responsible and are able to keep themselves and others out of trouble (much of the time)

-> they can take fair criticism without taking it personally and are open to learning from it

-> they know their own limits and are not too afraid or too shy to admit vulnerability and ask for help, repeatedly if necessary

-> they are able to summon (or feign!) curiosity about new things, even when those things may not seem fascinating at first glance

-> they are connected in a healthy way to something bigger than themselves, like faith, nature, an art, or a cause

-> they can summarize prose accurately and pick out items that could be used to support an argument

-> they can write in a mostly correct fashion

-> they can perform mathematical or scientific calculations at the freshman level expected by their future major

...then they will probably do just fine.

Notice how little of my list is academic, and how it says nothing about test scores, APs, or learning differences. Give your DC all of these other things, and we who teach will be able to help them learn.

[Anonymous]

are students more or less prepared academically than 5.10.20 and 30 years ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:are students more or less prepared academically than 5.10.20 and 30 years ago?

Much less prepared now. Very dependent on computers. Very distracted by everything. Some act like they’ve never been in a library. Many cannot write 2 pages much less 20. When giving a blue book for exams their handwriting is atrocious. They expect retakes and grade changes instead of showing up and doing work. They request notes instead of taking them in class. The list goes on and on.

[Anonymous]

I wasn't teaching 20-30 years ago, but the bottom quartile is performing noticeably worse than 5-10 years ago. I've made exams easier but the lowest scores are still significantly lower than before. Gap between highest and lowest scores is now tremendous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've actually posted this before, but here it is again because it really does represent what I think.

Here is a professor's wish list for sending a kid off to college. If:

-> they have stable, strong relationships with family and friends that can support them at a distance

-> they are resilient and can set aside minor setbacks and contextualize major ones

-> they are independent and have sufficient executive skills to get up on time, eat decently, care for their health, get where they need to go, and do most of their homework

-> they like themselves and are ok with spending time alone and exploring their world on their own sometimes

-> they have a personal toolbox for initiating connections with new friends and building positive relationships with others

-> they are reasonably responsible and are able to keep themselves and others out of trouble (much of the time)

-> they can take fair criticism without taking it personally and are open to learning from it

-> they know their own limits and are not too afraid or too shy to admit vulnerability and ask for help, repeatedly if necessary

-> they are able to summon (or feign!) curiosity about new things, even when those things may not seem fascinating at first glance

-> they are connected in a healthy way to something bigger than themselves, like faith, nature, an art, or a cause

-> they can summarize prose accurately and pick out items that could be used to support an argument

-> they can write in a mostly correct fashion

-> they can perform mathematical or scientific calculations at the freshman level expected by their future major

...then they will probably do just fine.

Notice how little of my list is academic, and how it says nothing about test scores, APs, or learning differences. Give your DC all of these other things, and we who teach will be able to help them learn.

This is a tall order: most adult college grads fail on most of these, let alone an 18-year-old….

[Anonymous]

I have 30 years of teaching college students:

Some students graduate from high school thinking 95% of life’s challenges will involve filling out Scantrons. If your kid went to a high school where they demanded thinking & writing, your kid will do fine.

Make sure your kid knows the better profs are preparing their students for life AFTER college, so they won’t be offering exam re-takes & bull$hit extra credit assignments to make up for bad test performances.

Tell your kids that thousands of great jobs require a security clearance, & their path to being granted a clearance will be much easier if they can answer a flat “no” to the drug use questions.

I suggest they take an introduction to logic class as early as possible in their college career. It orders the mind & makes everything else easier.

Tell your kid to sit up front in class, put away the phone, and pay attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are students more or less prepared academically than 5.10.20 and 30 years ago?

Much less prepared now. Very dependent on computers. Very distracted by everything. Some act like they’ve never been in a library. Many cannot write 2 pages much less 20. When giving a blue book for exams their handwriting is atrocious. They expect retakes and grade changes instead of showing up and doing work. They request notes instead of taking them in class. The list goes on and on.

I have been teaching for nearly 20 years at an R1 university and I haven't noticed any of this, except distraction. Distraction has grown in the past 5-10 years and is an issue. I now regularly open with a discussion in the course on strategies for maintaining attention for learning and revisit it if/when students seem to be struggling with it.

I would say, library research skills have grown with the tools. A far larger percentage of students know how to find quality, peer-reviewed work, use more sources, and know how to critically analyze them than they did when I was starting out. I used to have to spend more time teaching this in a more remedial way. I think the K-12 schools are building these skills more than they used to.

I don't really think about students' handwriting as an important part of learning--most of what they submit to me is digital. 99% of academic and professional work is done on computers--not sure why we would expect them not to be "dependent" on them.

Surprisingly, I have seen gains in public presentation skills over the years. I think more K-12 schools regularly have students do oral/group presentations and it shows in the college years.

Writing skills are more variable than they used to be. The strongest students are as strong as they have ever been; the weakest are worse than they used to be. (Except multi-lingual English learners--the tools have helped them improve a lot). I think there is more variable writing support/feedback in K-12 schools than there used to be, and more casual forms of writing are practiced every day through texting and social media.

I've seen an increase in use of AI and I can tell the tone/voice shifts when students try to amend the text to avoid being "caught" by software. Rather than outright forbidding AI, I have a policy that they need to cite any usage of a tool for writing and clarify what contributions were from the tool(s) and what were from them and that I consider uncited use of tools plagiarism. This seems to dissuade students as it adds extra work, but a few international students use the tools and are thoughtful in clarifying how. I give feedback on whether I think the use is supporting their learning or not.

The mental health concerns that spiked in the pandemic and immediately after seem to be waning. Also, ever year I see more accommodation requests for disabilities, but now fewer students actually use them. It's almost like they put in the request as a "safety net" so if they need more time they can use it, but most seem to have a handle on it. I've also shifted my practice away to give ample time for everyone to do their best work on a test so this may be a factor as 'time on tests' is the most common accommodation.

[Anonymous]

I've observed that students have far less tolerance for ambiguity. They want to be fed the right answers.

[Anonymous]

At an unranked uni that advertises on TV-- wide variety. Some just do not have the writing and comprehension skills to succeed. Others are skilled, organized and driven. The number relying on AI (sometimes under the auspices of grammarly) keeps increasing, so the ability for students to develop and exercise critical thinking decreases as the use of AI to generate written work increases. Still, always a few dedicated students who help to set a bar. Hope that continues.