S/O - insights from professors?

[Anonymous]

I find that a lot of kids simply don't know how to study for a test. They will come to office hours after doing poorly on our first test, and my first question is how they studied. Many, many of them say they re-read the powerpoint slides that I put online. I ask if they created any mechanism to quiz themselves (e.g., quizlet, study guide, old fashioned flashcards) and they usually say no.

At least some portion of them also seem unwilling to do these things (though perhaps there have always been lazy students). I often offer to have students come see me before the next test so I can help them work through the material to see where they need to focus, but they should bring their study aids (quizlets, study guides, etc) and they typically don't show up... but do just as badly on the next test.

Teach your kids that re-reading is not studying. They need to have a mechanism to quiz themselves to see if they remember the material. Also, it's tempting to find those resources online (a quizlet someone created for a similar class) but the student will probably learn more from MAKING their study aid than they will learn from drilling through it. Spending the time to write the questions and answers, in itself, teaches the material. So it's much better if they create these things, themselves, even if one is apparently available online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To Professors:

Can you tell which students attended private prep high schools versus those with a public high school background ?

I am familiar with private day & boarding schools throughout the nation and would be shocked if graduates lacked the skills and maturity noted above by several posters.

That is not something a professor would know or ask (or care about).

+1
why do you think professors know your kid's HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can I ask a dumb question? Are professors no longer allowed to use class participation as part of a grade?

I took many classes where class participation was like 10% of the grade. Now, not every kid was called in every class, but it was enough of a stick that few skipped the class and most paid attention.

In my classes, participation ranges from 10-25% of grade, depending on the course. It's becoming more of a problem to grade, however. Pre-COVID, students understood the expectation was that they would be in class every class. (Of course, students skipped, but they knew they were 'breaking the rules.') I always build a couple of free absences into the grading-- i.e., you can miss 2 classes and still get full score on participation. And I never had a student even suggest that they should get an exception. Now, students seem to very earnestly think they'll get excused absences for every little thing--headache, mental health day, etc. The reason it's becoming difficult to enforce is that there's still an expectation that you don't come to class if you may have Covid, and there's really no way to verify Covid (no one is getting formal tests anymore). So if all a kid has to do is say they think they have Covid, then it's challenging to enforce attendance for everyone. (Since I know that some kids are lying about Covid, I hate to penalize who are NOT lying but say they have some other reason.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To Professors:

Can you tell which students attended private prep high schools versus those with a public high school background ?

I am familiar with private day & boarding schools throughout the nation and would be shocked if graduates lacked the skills and maturity noted above by several posters.

That is not something a professor would know or ask (or care about).

+1
why do you think professors know your kid's HS?

💯
I think it’s nosy and weird if a professor asked/knew if my kid went to a public or private HS. I’d ask them why they want to know?

Seems like a data point that could hurt the kid - depending on what it’s being used for? Some snobby adjunct professors might like/prefer/know kids at local privates bc that’s where their kids go? Or vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can I ask a dumb question? Are professors no longer allowed to use class participation as part of a grade?

I took many classes where class participation was like 10% of the grade. Now, not every kid was called in every class, but it was enough of a stick that few skipped the class and most paid attention.

In my classes, participation ranges from 10-25% of grade, depending on the course. It's becoming more of a problem to grade, however. Pre-COVID, students understood the expectation was that they would be in class every class. (Of course, students skipped, but they knew they were 'breaking the rules.') I always build a couple of free absences into the grading-- i.e., you can miss 2 classes and still get full score on participation. And I never had a student even suggest that they should get an exception. Now, students seem to very earnestly think they'll get excused absences for every little thing--headache, mental health day, etc. The reason it's becoming difficult to enforce is that there's still an expectation that you don't come to class if you may have Covid, and there's really no way to verify Covid (no one is getting formal tests anymore). So if all a kid has to do is say they think they have Covid, then it's challenging to enforce attendance for everyone. (Since I know that some kids are lying about Covid, I hate to penalize who are NOT lying but say they have some other reason.)

That’s interesting…my kid has a professor like you but the two absences are absolute (at least the official word)…if you get COVID, then you miss two classes and you should be back.

He basically says to bank those two absences for a Covid outbreak.

Of course no idea if the professor is actually as hard a** as his talk…though he has no problem failing kids (more accurately, they are failing and drop
The class before an F is printed).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How involved are all of you in admissions?

I know some schools have professors involved (I think Cornell)? If you are involved, can you give us a sense for the type of schools?

Absolutely zero for undergraduate. Pretty much total control for graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To Professors:

Can you tell which students attended private prep high schools versus those with a public high school background ?

I am familiar with private day & boarding schools throughout the nation and would be shocked if graduates lacked the skills and maturity noted above by several posters.

That is not something a professor would know or ask (or care about).

+1
why do you think professors know your kid's HS?

💯
I think it’s nosy and weird if a professor asked/knew if my kid went to a public or private HS. I’d ask them why they want to know?

Seems like a data point that could hurt the kid - depending on what it’s being used for? Some snobby adjunct professors might like/prefer/know kids at local privates bc that’s where their kids go? Or vice versa.

Believe me, as a professor, I don't care where my students went to high school, although a fair share of them seem to wish I was impressed by that. I just care whether they are prepared or not to do what they need to do to learn and make progress. If so, great, let's go. If not, then let me help you catch up or create a new plan or switch courses. How prestigious the neighbors or relatives may have thought your high school was has nothing to do with that (and chances are I've never heard of the school anyway).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can I ask a dumb question? Are professors no longer allowed to use class participation as part of a grade?

I took many classes where class participation was like 10% of the grade. Now, not every kid was called in every class, but it was enough of a stick that few skipped the class and most paid attention.

Not a professor but my DC was dinged by attending every weekly discussion session with the TA but not saying anything - it was 10% of grade and the TA gave them a very low grade on that portion. They had thought they were on track for an A based on very high test scores....not so much....maybe they learned it has consequences? Hard to say (I hope so). I think some of their other classes had TA's that were just happy for students to attend those sessions vs speaking and attending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To Professors:

Can you tell which students attended private prep high schools versus those with a public high school background ?

I am familiar with private day & boarding schools throughout the nation and would be shocked if graduates lacked the skills and maturity noted above by several posters.

That is not something a professor would know or ask (or care about).

+1
why do you think professors know your kid's HS?

My kid’s professors know his high school because some of them have sent their kids there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To Professors:

Can you tell which students attended private prep high schools versus those with a public high school background ?

I am familiar with private day & boarding schools throughout the nation and would be shocked if graduates lacked the skills and maturity noted above by several posters.

That is not something a professor would know or ask (or care about).

+1
why do you think professors know your kid's HS?

My kid’s professors know his high school because some of them have sent their kids there.

Hit sent too soon. Plenty of kids wear stuff with their HS on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can I ask a dumb question? Are professors no longer allowed to use class participation as part of a grade?

I took many classes where class participation was like 10% of the grade. Now, not every kid was called in every class, but it was enough of a stick that few skipped the class and most paid attention.

Not a professor but my DC was dinged by attending every weekly discussion session with the TA but not saying anything - it was 10% of grade and the TA gave them a very low grade on that portion. They had thought they were on track for an A based on very high test scores....not so much....maybe they learned it has consequences? Hard to say (I hope so). I think some of their other classes had TA's that were just happy for students to attend those sessions vs speaking and attending.

It is called a “discussion session” so yeah, you are supposed to speak up.

Plus , kids often don’t talk because they have not done the reading.

Sounds like your kid is the “check the box“ type (not truly engaging with the material). That is not uncommon, but it is not A level work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can I ask a dumb question? Are professors no longer allowed to use class participation as part of a grade?

I took many classes where class participation was like 10% of the grade. Now, not every kid was called in every class, but it was enough of a stick that few skipped the class and most paid attention.

In my classes, participation ranges from 10-25% of grade, depending on the course. It's becoming more of a problem to grade, however. Pre-COVID, students understood the expectation was that they would be in class every class. (Of course, students skipped, but they knew they were 'breaking the rules.') I always build a couple of free absences into the grading-- i.e., you can miss 2 classes and still get full score on participation. And I never had a student even suggest that they should get an exception. Now, students seem to very earnestly think they'll get excused absences for every little thing--headache, mental health day, etc. The reason it's becoming difficult to enforce is that there's still an expectation that you don't come to class if you may have Covid, and there's really no way to verify Covid (no one is getting formal tests anymore). So if all a kid has to do is say they think they have Covid, then it's challenging to enforce attendance for everyone. (Since I know that some kids are lying about Covid, I hate to penalize who are NOT lying but say they have some other reason.)

That’s interesting…my kid has a professor like you but the two absences are absolute (at least the official word)…if you get COVID, then you miss two classes and you should be back.

He basically says to bank those two absences for a Covid outbreak.

Of course no idea if the professor is actually as hard a** as his talk…though he has no problem failing kids (more accurately, they are failing and drop
The class before an F is printed).

Wish my kid had all professors like the PP. Fall 2020, my kid got covid. And one prof still required them to take an exam (online of course) while they were still sick with moderate case of covid (102+ fever, chest pain, coughing, oxygen staying around 94/95%, headache)--it was Day 4 of what was not a mild case (pre vax). Their other 4 profs were very nice and accommodating, but that one was not kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can I ask a dumb question? Are professors no longer allowed to use class participation as part of a grade?

I took many classes where class participation was like 10% of the grade. Now, not every kid was called in every class, but it was enough of a stick that few skipped the class and most paid attention.

Not a professor but my DC was dinged by attending every weekly discussion session with the TA but not saying anything - it was 10% of grade and the TA gave them a very low grade on that portion. They had thought they were on track for an A based on very high test scores....not so much....maybe they learned it has consequences? Hard to say (I hope so). I think some of their other classes had TA's that were just happy for students to attend those sessions vs speaking and attending.

The rubric should have defined what "participation" meant. Also all TAs for a single course should be grading with similar rubrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is so helpful, and I love that these posts give me concrete things to discuss with DC as she moves toward (and isn’t yet) “college ready.” I also find these posts oddly calming — maybe it’s seeing how much you all really care, and are rooting for your students, with a strong sense of what does/doesn’t matter.

Very grateful to the profs who have weighed in here and elsewhere.

+1

[Anonymous]

[b]

Anonymous wrote:I find that a lot of kids simply don't know how to study for a test. They will come to office hours after doing poorly on our first test, and my first question is how they studied. Many, many of them say they re-read the powerpoint slides that I put online. I ask if they created any mechanism to quiz themselves (e.g., quizlet, study guide, old fashioned flashcards) and they usually say no.

At least some portion of them also seem unwilling to do these things (though perhaps there have always been lazy students). I often offer to have students come see me before the next test so I can help them work through the material to see where they need to focus, but they should bring their study aids (quizlets, study guides, etc) and they typically don't show up... but do just as badly on the next test.

Teach your kids that re-reading is not studying. They need to have a mechanism to quiz themselves to see if they remember the material. Also, it's tempting to find those resources online (a quizlet someone created for a similar class) but the student will probably learn more from MAKING their study aid than they will learn from drilling through it. Spending the time to write the questions and answers, in itself, teaches the material. So it's much better if they create these things, themselves, even if one is apparently available online.

This is interesting. I just asked DC if they'd ever made flash cards or created a quizlet or other study aid. The answer was no — never occurred to me that this had to be taught.