S/O - insights from professors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At T10 research-focused university. Here’s what I wish parents knew.

1. Digital distraction is a problem. TAs who sit in the back can see what students are doing on their laptops during lecture. Some are always checking email, doing other homework, scrolling social media, flipping back and forth between tabs, etc. This has long been a problem but definitely worse since the pandemic. Hardly a surprising revelation, but kids who stay engaged tend to do very well.
2. Related to previous point, please talk to teens about small-class etiquette. Recently saw one student in a small seminar continually checking his phone, chuckling to himself during a discussion and it distracted everybody. I had never seen this before. Friends at other schools also tell me their students have weaker class etiquette, perhaps due to remote learning. Remind them it's a good idea to close the laptop with its distractions and stay engaged. This is crucial in small seminars, when mutual participation is the whole point. Seems obvious, but apparently is not.
3. If your teens are not used to small discussion based classes in high school, encourage them to get out of their comfort zone and try to participate more when they take seminars.
4. Some freshmen struggle if their HS courses mainly emphasized memorization, because harder classes emphasize conceptual understanding. If they get a bad grade on the first hw or exam, become a regular at TA/prof office hours. Say “here are the major concepts as I understood them from this lecture…(re-explain concepts in their own words)…do I have it right or is there anything I am missing?” Also, find peers to study with.
5. In-person office hours are the best place to get help. Much better than emailing.
6. Intellectually curious students make my day!
7. Discourage them from seeing the prof only to ask for a better grade. I won’t bend grades for one student because it is unfair to the rest of the class.
8. School fit (and major fit) are way more important than prestige. A few kids who are completely failing my exams based on hard skill performance blow me away with their public speaking abilities. With some guidance on content, they can give the most confident and charming presentations in the class. I really like these kids and want them to succeed but I can’t give them As and Bs unless they can earn these grades. I sometimes wonder to myself whether they would have been better off going to a school where they could be academic big fish and graduate with a higher gpa (for grad/med schools), instead of crying over D’s and C’s on exams that were easy for the rest of the class.
9. Students who struggle academically are not the only ones with mental health issues, and depressed/anxious students often don’t share their grief with friends or family. Don’t assume they would tell you if they were suffering. They are really good at hiding it. They sometimes tell me because they need to explain why they stopped showing up to classes or didn't turn in work, but I would never be able to tell otherwise. Remind them frequently of their value apart from grades or career.
10. I have nothing to do with the admissions office. I don’t necessarily understand or agree with admissions practices.

Overall I think the students are great and wish them the best. I hope the anxious perfectionist types will relax and go easier on themselves. I hope the distracted ones learn to focus.

+1000
The name of the college only helps if you are in the top half at least, for a lot of majors/career goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't teaching 20-30 years ago, but the bottom quartile is performing noticeably worse than 5-10 years ago. I've made exams easier but the lowest scores are still significantly lower than before. Gap between highest and lowest scores is now tremendous.

100% agree, and have heard the same across many T30 type peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are students more or less prepared academically than 5.10.20 and 30 years ago?

Much less prepared now. Very dependent on computers. Very distracted by everything. Some act like they’ve never been in a library. Many cannot write 2 pages much less 20. When giving a blue book for exams their handwriting is atrocious. They expect retakes and grade changes instead of showing up and doing work. They request notes instead of taking them in class. The list goes on and on.

Many aren’t acting but actually have never been in a library. Open EBSCOHost for your average high schooler and look at them struggle to search a single thing. Databases are this generation’s enemy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:are students more or less prepared academically than 5.10.20 and 30 years ago?

Vastly less prepared: there are really no words to describe it. The lack of curiosity on their part is what really gets me. Not only do they have less skill and less knowledge coming in, but they don't seem to desire more of either.

[Anonymous]

This is so helpful, and I love that these posts give me concrete things to discuss with DC as she moves toward (and isn’t yet) “college ready.” I also find these posts oddly calming — maybe it’s seeing how much you all really care, and are rooting for your students, with a strong sense of what does/doesn’t matter.

Very grateful to the profs who have weighed in here and elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

The culture is supporting a far more transactional approach to college than it used to. It is understandable given the cost for families (and I wish professors had more--or really any-- control over university budgets!) but I think it backfires both for learning, personal growth and for career preparation. My advice to families is to balance your framing about college: highlight the importance of being intellectually curious, of taking courses that just sound interesting to you, learning about yourself and your interests as equally valuable to doing the work that intentionally and purposefully builds towards a career. No one can hand either to you: students have to take the primary role in constructing their learning towards their own desired futures. The faculty and the school just try to create the optimal conditions and support for you to do this work. So much of learning and careers are non-linear and the experience of tapping intrinsic motivation and curiosity and connecting it to intellectual pursuits is essential in any academic discipline and to building a thriving professional (and personal) life.

Frame a degree as not something you "get" (or, worse, buy!), but something you earn. Think of earning a degree as being purposefully and actively involved in building the foundation for the long game of a flourishing life and a professional career.

Now being a parent of a recent college grad, I see this non-linearity firsthand. My son's work in college has led to a great start of a career, but he now thinks two of the most influential courses were outside his major and sort of taken on a whim as they were what was available to fill a distribution requirement--a Russian studies course that gave him powerful tools and context for interpreting current events and a film studies course that has launched an interest in film and improved his critical thinking on the art form. Both give him a lot of enjoyment, intellectual engagement post-college, a connection to others who find his interests/viewpoints interesting, and has even had career benefits because he was pulled into a project because of a connection he made with the lead talking about films during a company social event.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are students more or less prepared academically than 5.10.20 and 30 years ago?

Much less prepared now. Very dependent on computers. Very distracted by everything. Some act like they’ve never been in a library. Many cannot write 2 pages much less 20. When giving a blue book for exams their handwriting is atrocious. They expect retakes and grade changes instead of showing up and doing work. They request notes instead of taking them in class. The list goes on and on.

+100.
So true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The culture is supporting a far more transactional approach to college than it used to. It is understandable given the cost for families (and I wish professors had more--or really any-- control over university budgets!) but I think it backfires both for learning, personal growth and for career preparation. My advice to families is to balance your framing about college: highlight the importance of being intellectually curious, of taking courses that just sound interesting to you, learning about yourself and your interests as equally valuable to doing the work that intentionally and purposefully builds towards a career. No one can hand either to you: students have to take the primary role in constructing their learning towards their own desired futures. The faculty and the school just try to create the optimal conditions and support for you to do this work. So much of learning and careers are non-linear and the experience of tapping intrinsic motivation and curiosity and connecting it to intellectual pursuits is essential in any academic discipline and to building a thriving professional (and personal) life.

Frame a degree as not something you "get" (or, worse, buy!), but something you earn. Think of earning a degree as being purposefully and actively involved in building the foundation for the long game of a flourishing life and a professional career.

Now being a parent of a recent college grad, I see this non-linearity firsthand. My son's work in college has led to a great start of a career, but he now thinks two of the most influential courses were outside his major and sort of taken on a whim as they were what was available to fill a distribution requirement--a Russian studies course that gave him powerful tools and context for interpreting current events and a film studies course that has launched an interest in film and improved his critical thinking on the art form. Both give him a lot of enjoyment, intellectual engagement post-college, a connection to others who find his interests/viewpoints interesting, and has even had career benefits because he was pulled into a project because of a connection he made with the lead talking about films during a company social event.

Not a professor but had a very similar experience as your son. One semester took a course on Iranian cinema for a distribution req, and it was easily my favorite college seminar. A couple years later, I'm interviewing for a job and the interviewer (also the CEO) goes off track and asks me how I got into Farsi and bam, turns out he's Iranian. You can't talk with someone at the level as when you can connect with them about A)their hometown or B) the type of media they say growing up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The culture is supporting a far more transactional approach to college than it used to. It is understandable given the cost for families (and I wish professors had more--or really any-- control over university budgets!) but I think it backfires both for learning, personal growth and for career preparation. My advice to families is to balance your framing about college: highlight the importance of being intellectually curious, of taking courses that just sound interesting to you, learning about yourself and your interests as equally valuable to doing the work that intentionally and purposefully builds towards a career. No one can hand either to you: students have to take the primary role in constructing their learning towards their own desired futures. The faculty and the school just try to create the optimal conditions and support for you to do this work. So much of learning and careers are non-linear and the experience of tapping intrinsic motivation and curiosity and connecting it to intellectual pursuits is essential in any academic discipline and to building a thriving professional (and personal) life.

Frame a degree as not something you "get" (or, worse, buy!), but something you earn. Think of earning a degree as being purposefully and actively involved in building the foundation for the long game of a flourishing life and a professional career.

Now being a parent of a recent college grad, I see this non-linearity firsthand. My son's work in college has led to a great start of a career, but he now thinks two of the most influential courses were outside his major and sort of taken on a whim as they were what was available to fill a distribution requirement--a Russian studies course that gave him powerful tools and context for interpreting current events and a film studies course that has launched an interest in film and improved his critical thinking on the art form. Both give him a lot of enjoyment, intellectual engagement post-college, a connection to others who find his interests/viewpoints interesting, and has even had career benefits because he was pulled into a project because of a connection he made with the lead talking about films during a company social event.

DP. Great post! I'm going to show this thread to my inbound freshman. I was a liberal arts student through and through. As I progressed through my college years, career, grad school, and more work, I was continually surprised by what courses developed my thinking the most. For example, during my MBA, I expected "Corporate Strategy" to be the most impactful, while instead it was "Advanced Cost Accounting". Eventually, in retrospect, there were many courses from which I retained little. The ones that made the biggest impact were the ones that involved a lot of analysis and discussion. English lit, history, and environmental science are high on the list though not directly related to any job I've held.

[Anonymous]

I teach in a grad program, but what I have seen is:

> students who complain about the same (or much less) work than previous cohorts accomplished, and more successfully.

> they want EVERYTHING spelled out for them. Like an example of the assignment done by last year’s class. (I blame that on the use of rubrics, which have be one so common in high school).

> a lack of respect for expertise /established disciplines . If you take points off because they did not carry out a scientific technique according to the accepted methods you taught them, they whine that you just want them to do it your way.

Not sure what parenting tips would improve these issues, but the decline has been striking in my academic career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a grad program, but what I have seen is:

> students who complain about the same (or much less) work than previous cohorts accomplished, and more successfully.

> they want EVERYTHING spelled out for them. Like an example of the assignment done by last year’s class. (I blame that on the use of rubrics, which have be one so common in high school).

> a lack of respect for expertise /established disciplines . If you take points off because they did not carry out a scientific technique according to the accepted methods you taught them, they whine that you just want them to do it your way.

Not sure what parenting tips would improve these issues, but the decline has been striking in my academic career.

Are you willing to share the subject area ?

Disheartening to read that graduate students are behaving in these manners.

Thank you for posting !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach in a grad program, but what I have seen is:

> students who complain about the same (or much less) work than previous cohorts accomplished, and more successfully.

> they want EVERYTHING spelled out for them. Like an example of the assignment done by last year’s class. (I blame that on the use of rubrics, which have be one so common in high school).

> a lack of respect for expertise /established disciplines . If you take points off because they did not carry out a scientific technique according to the accepted methods you taught them, they whine that you just want them to do it your way.

Not sure what parenting tips would improve these issues, but the decline has been striking in my academic career.

Are you willing to share the subject area ?

Disheartening to read that graduate students are behaving in these manners.

Thank you for posting !

Public health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've actually posted this before, but here it is again because it really does represent what I think.

Here is a professor's wish list for sending a kid off to college. If:

-> they have stable, strong relationships with family and friends that can support them at a distance

-> they are resilient and can set aside minor setbacks and contextualize major ones

-> they are independent and have sufficient executive skills to get up on time, eat decently, care for their health, get where they need to go, and do most of their homework

-> they like themselves and are ok with spending time alone and exploring their world on their own sometimes

-> they have a personal toolbox for initiating connections with new friends and building positive relationships with others

-> they are reasonably responsible and are able to keep themselves and others out of trouble (much of the time)

-> they can take fair criticism without taking it personally and are open to learning from it

-> they know their own limits and are not too afraid or too shy to admit vulnerability and ask for help, repeatedly if necessary

-> they are able to summon (or feign!) curiosity about new things, even when those things may not seem fascinating at first glance

-> they are connected in a healthy way to something bigger than themselves, like faith, nature, an art, or a cause

-> they can summarize prose accurately and pick out items that could be used to support an argument

-> they can write in a mostly correct fashion

-> they can perform mathematical or scientific calculations at the freshman level expected by their future major

...then they will probably do just fine.

Notice how little of my list is academic, and how it says nothing about test scores, APs, or learning differences. Give your DC all of these other things, and we who teach will be able to help them learn.

Weird list. The short version is that you want students who have achieved a certain maturity level.

[Anonymous]

To Professors:

Can you tell which students attended private prep high schools versus those with a public high school background ?

I am familiar with private day & boarding schools throughout the nation and would be shocked if graduates lacked the skills and maturity noted above by several posters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've actually posted this before, but here it is again because it really does represent what I think.

Here is a professor's wish list for sending a kid off to college. If:

-> they have stable, strong relationships with family and friends that can support them at a distance

-> they are resilient and can set aside minor setbacks and contextualize major ones

-> they are independent and have sufficient executive skills to get up on time, eat decently, care for their health, get where they need to go, and do most of their homework

-> they like themselves and are ok with spending time alone and exploring their world on their own sometimes

-> they have a personal toolbox for initiating connections with new friends and building positive relationships with others

-> they are reasonably responsible and are able to keep themselves and others out of trouble (much of the time)

-> they can take fair criticism without taking it personally and are open to learning from it

-> they know their own limits and are not too afraid or too shy to admit vulnerability and ask for help, repeatedly if necessary

-> they are able to summon (or feign!) curiosity about new things, even when those things may not seem fascinating at first glance

-> they are connected in a healthy way to something bigger than themselves, like faith, nature, an art, or a cause

-> they can summarize prose accurately and pick out items that could be used to support an argument

-> they can write in a mostly correct fashion

-> they can perform mathematical or scientific calculations at the freshman level expected by their future major

...then they will probably do just fine.

Notice how little of my list is academic, and how it says nothing about test scores, APs, or learning differences. Give your DC all of these other things, and we who teach will be able to help them learn.

Weird list. The short version is that you want students who have achieved a certain maturity level.

DP: I think it's a good list and the level of specificity is helpful since 'maturity' is an amorphous concept that means a lot of things to different people. I have a slight quibble with the word 'give' in "Give your DC all of these..." since many are not things one could give to another person. But as a parent, it's a useful checklist for dimensions of maturity that might matter.