So have we talked about this SAHM in Arlington Profile?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ultimate hypocrisy. “The future is female” - so I’ll stay home while a man pays.

I had a lengthy conversation with a sahd yesterday. Feel better?

Was he at home with a son, a woman supporting them both, and crowing “the future is male!?”

I’d say no different were that the case.

If you don’t see the irony in that quote from the article, I can’t help you.

When one person takes care of the children and homefront, that allows the partner to work, including travel, unfettered by childcare and other home-based concerns. There is huge value in that, and it’s the partnership that allows it. They are both supporting the entire family unit. No irony.

Maybe in some SAHM situations. In my case, I see my child as my daytime occupation. If I throw in laundry or dishes, fine, but I’m not home slaving away at the house while DH sits back. He gets home and helps with dishes and laundry and takes the trash out we hire cleaners to come once every 2-3 weeks so neither of us has to scrub toilets. Once DH isn’t home for the night, child duties are split between us, most of the time more heavily in DH’s direction as he often does both bath and bed.

Meant to say once DH *is home* for the night, childcare is split... I wouldn’t say DH is unfettered by child and home concerns.

What I meant by that is that the partner earning an income can travel for work, stay late for meetings, head to the office when a kid is sick, not have to come home to meet a contractor, etc. Unfettered in that sense.

This attitude is ridiculous. The kid is not a lump of clay. A child should not be a "datime occupation". This mindset is an issue. Staying home is not. Moms like this are honestly creating monsters and a real PITA themselves. Its not rocket science and hell yeah, you should be doing the laundry. How TF would you not have the time? I have WOHM, SAHM and worked partime and so has my spouse and the one home with the kid does this stuff. That is how it is done. No, it is not fair to refuse to do household chores when you are not earning any income because your child is an "occupation". GTFO yourself.

I don't see my time with my kids as an "occupation" but I also don't see that I'm automatically responsible for more of the general household chores. I'll do them if I can, but they certainly aren't my "job" either.

I don't know what I think about that. I think as a general rule that stuff should be done by the person who has the time, or cares more. I don't see how the former would not usually be the SAHM. If I am really busy at work and my husband is off for any reason, I certainly expect him to do the household chores. I don't see why that would not be the general assumption. Your "job" is not staring at your kid all day, and anyone should be able to handle having a small child and doing the laundry. Sorry if that isn't popular, but come on.

To that end, everyone I know that employs a caretaker for young kids expects that they will do the dishes and do the laundry for the kid. Why would you not expect the same from a SAHM? Seriously, that's just a crappy deal if not. I would not take it. Sorry.

"A crappy deal"? You are negotiating your family's approach to childcare?

Every single family that has ever discussed this has negotiated their approach to child care. If you are not talking about it, you are...what, exactly? Yes, when my husband took a job that paid much more and required more hours, I said I would need to cut back to drive the kids around and I would do the dishes and laundry so he could work more and we could save more. I fail entirely to see how coming up with an arrangement that seems fair and workable is bad?

We decide together the best childcare for our kids. Household chores do not enter the conversation. It's not "a deal".

This makes no sense. How do you decide who does what chores? Having a conversation about it isn't some kind of bad thing. You sound defensive and ridiculous, sorry.

Household chores are a separate conversation and much more fluid. Not related to kids.

Yeah, I don't get this. The spouse AT HOME where the freakin laundry and yard and dishes ARE LOCATED who has young kids who presumably nap and lets see, no other "job" presumably has more time and access to said chore locations. Why would they not do the chores? Why would you not think you should do most of the chores?

Why do you assume the spouse at home has no other "jobs"?

Childcare (kid meals, dishes, laundry, activities) takes up a lot of the day. All capable family members can contribute to general household responsibilities. AKA older kids can do their own laundry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today my cleaning lady came for the weekly cleaning. She and her associate, worked along side me for 3 hours, to change sheets, clean the fridge, sweep the garage, water plants and bring them inside, clean the pantry, clean the kitchen and bathrooms and mop the floors. Obviously this meant that I dusted all rooms. removed and shook all the rugs, did the laundry, arranged the dressers and closets, swept the floors and vacuumed. I pay them by the hour and I am a SAHM.

I suddenly realized that I have never really not worked when they have come to clean my house. It is a 9 man-hour marathon, where they stand-in and do the work that ordinarily my DH and kids would have done. When I see how hard my DH and my kids work and how much they achieve, I know that I am their logistical support person.

I do not have any existential crisis, because some days goes in helping my children with their studies, some days go in looking after our finances and paperwork (tax, immigration, investments, credentials), some days go in social obligations and some days in school, church, or just relaxing.

We all have 24 hours. No one is doing more work than the next person. I obviously am not looking at a computer for as long as a working woman in an office job is, but I am able to do enough work on the computer that works for my family. The working woman is not doing the amount of domestic work that a household requires, but she is able to do enough to get every one fed, clothed and keep the house running.

Many working mom' I know do everything you just listed. It never needs to be this stupid pissing contest, but posts like this make it so. Look, you stay at home because it was best and easiest for your family. So, like, it should be easier. Rest assured that you have it easier than the working moms that have spouses that work crazy shifts who also do all the household work, the homework, the coordinating of it all, and all the paperwork. And that is most of the working moms I know.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ultimate hypocrisy. “The future is female” - so I’ll stay home while a man pays.

I had a lengthy conversation with a sahd yesterday. Feel better?

Was he at home with a son, a woman supporting them both, and crowing “the future is male!?”

I’d say no different were that the case.

If you don’t see the irony in that quote from the article, I can’t help you.

When one person takes care of the children and homefront, that allows the partner to work, including travel, unfettered by childcare and other home-based concerns. There is huge value in that, and it’s the partnership that allows it. They are both supporting the entire family unit. No irony.

Maybe in some SAHM situations. In my case, I see my child as my daytime occupation. If I throw in laundry or dishes, fine, but I’m not home slaving away at the house while DH sits back. He gets home and helps with dishes and laundry and takes the trash out we hire cleaners to come once every 2-3 weeks so neither of us has to scrub toilets. Once DH isn’t home for the night, child duties are split between us, most of the time more heavily in DH’s direction as he often does both bath and bed.

Meant to say once DH *is home* for the night, childcare is split... I wouldn’t say DH is unfettered by child and home concerns.

What I meant by that is that the partner earning an income can travel for work, stay late for meetings, head to the office when a kid is sick, not have to come home to meet a contractor, etc. Unfettered in that sense.

This attitude is ridiculous. The kid is not a lump of clay. A child should not be a "datime occupation". This mindset is an issue. Staying home is not. Moms like this are honestly creating monsters and a real PITA themselves. Its not rocket science and hell yeah, you should be doing the laundry. How TF would you not have the time? I have WOHM, SAHM and worked partime and so has my spouse and the one home with the kid does this stuff. That is how it is done. No, it is not fair to refuse to do household chores when you are not earning any income because your child is an "occupation". GTFO yourself.

I don't see my time with my kids as an "occupation" but I also don't see that I'm automatically responsible for more of the general household chores. I'll do them if I can, but they certainly aren't my "job" either.

I don't know what I think about that. I think as a general rule that stuff should be done by the person who has the time, or cares more. I don't see how the former would not usually be the SAHM. If I am really busy at work and my husband is off for any reason, I certainly expect him to do the household chores. I don't see why that would not be the general assumption. Your "job" is not staring at your kid all day, and anyone should be able to handle having a small child and doing the laundry. Sorry if that isn't popular, but come on.

To that end, everyone I know that employs a caretaker for young kids expects that they will do the dishes and do the laundry for the kid. Why would you not expect the same from a SAHM? Seriously, that's just a crappy deal if not. I would not take it. Sorry.

"A crappy deal"? You are negotiating your family's approach to childcare?

Every single family that has ever discussed this has negotiated their approach to child care. If you are not talking about it, you are...what, exactly? Yes, when my husband took a job that paid much more and required more hours, I said I would need to cut back to drive the kids around and I would do the dishes and laundry so he could work more and we could save more. I fail entirely to see how coming up with an arrangement that seems fair and workable is bad?

We decide together the best childcare for our kids. Household chores do not enter the conversation. It's not "a deal".

This makes no sense. How do you decide who does what chores? Having a conversation about it isn't some kind of bad thing. You sound defensive and ridiculous, sorry.

Household chores are a separate conversation and much more fluid. Not related to kids.

Yeah, I don't get this. The spouse AT HOME where the freakin laundry and yard and dishes ARE LOCATED who has young kids who presumably nap and lets see, no other "job" presumably has more time and access to said chore locations. Why would they not do the chores? Why would you not think you should do most of the chores?

Why do you assume the spouse at home has no other "jobs"?

Childcare (kid meals, dishes, laundry, activities) takes up a lot of the day. All capable family members can contribute to general household responsibilities. AKA older kids can do their own laundry.

I was raised by an old school immigrant, it is true, but this level of laziness just shocks me. I cannot imagine being unable to take care of a couple of kids and run a household. It is not, as they say, rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she made it up to write her blog/article to make money. Never once has someone at a store asked me what I do. Bizarre.

People ask me all the time. You're not working today ? I just smile.

+1000

[Anonymous]

I SAH with an almost 3 year old. I’d say that the difference in housework from when I was working is that we no longer have to spend our weekends cleaning or doing laundry. I’m able to throw in a load or two in the afternoon when I am home and we are no longer doing marathon sessions every Saturday. We also no longer need to spend every weekend vacuuming because I can do it during the day. But evening chores still happen. Sure, it’s lighter because maybe I’ve already washed and folded a load of towels that day, but we still have the kitchen clean up and there are more items to clean and put away and organize because we have a child. There’s more dishes to put away after I run the dishwasher and there’s of course more laundry. I do all the kid related shopping, household grocery shopping and kid related cleaning and some communal laundry like towels or a shared load of DH and my clothes, but there’s no way I see scrubbing toilets or ironing DH’s shirt as only my job simply because I SAH. If DH stayed at home, I’d feel the same. I wouldn’t expect him to be scrubbing toilets or ironing my shirts.

I think many people have mistaken ideas of what staying at home looks like with a child who is not an infant. It’s not like my 3 year old is taking naps all day and I can’t just stick him in my carrier and clean the whole house. He is running around and making messes (and helping to clean them up too) and we need to play outside and leave the house to burn off energy and see other people and run errands. We are not sitting around all day staring at each other while I put on some household chores strike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I SAH with an almost 3 year old. I’d say that the difference in housework from when I was working is that we no longer have to spend our weekends cleaning or doing laundry. I’m able to throw in a load or two in the afternoon when I am home and we are no longer doing marathon sessions every Saturday. We also no longer need to spend every weekend vacuuming because I can do it during the day. But evening chores still happen. Sure, it’s lighter because maybe I’ve already washed and folded a load of towels that day, but we still have the kitchen clean up and there are more items to clean and put away and organize because we have a child. There’s more dishes to put away after I run the dishwasher and there’s of course more laundry. I do all the kid related shopping, household grocery shopping and kid related cleaning and some communal laundry like towels or a shared load of DH and my clothes, but there’s no way I see scrubbing toilets or ironing DH’s shirt as only my job simply because I SAH. If DH stayed at home, I’d feel the same. I wouldn’t expect him to be scrubbing toilets or ironing my shirts.

I think many people have mistaken ideas of what staying at home looks like with a child who is not an infant. It’s not like my 3 year old is taking naps all day and I can’t just stick him in my carrier and clean the whole house. He is running around and making messes (and helping to clean them up too) and we need to play outside and leave the house to burn off energy and see other people and run errands. We are not sitting around all day staring at each other while I put on some household chores strike.

No, I don't have any misconceptions. I have stayed home with children of all ages. I agree re the ironing of the shirts, but I also think the SAHM bandwith increases after the kids go to school -if you are still SAHM, I would expect you to do the vast bulk of the chores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I SAH with an almost 3 year old. I’d say that the difference in housework from when I was working is that we no longer have to spend our weekends cleaning or doing laundry. I’m able to throw in a load or two in the afternoon when I am home and we are no longer doing marathon sessions every Saturday. We also no longer need to spend every weekend vacuuming because I can do it during the day. But evening chores still happen. Sure, it’s lighter because maybe I’ve already washed and folded a load of towels that day, but we still have the kitchen clean up and there are more items to clean and put away and organize because we have a child. There’s more dishes to put away after I run the dishwasher and there’s of course more laundry. I do all the kid related shopping, household grocery shopping and kid related cleaning and some communal laundry like towels or a shared load of DH and my clothes, but there’s no way I see scrubbing toilets or ironing DH’s shirt as only my job simply because I SAH. If DH stayed at home, I’d feel the same. I wouldn’t expect him to be scrubbing toilets or ironing my shirts.

I think many people have mistaken ideas of what staying at home looks like with a child who is not an infant. It’s not like my 3 year old is taking naps all day and I can’t just stick him in my carrier and clean the whole house. He is running around and making messes (and helping to clean them up too) and we need to play outside and leave the house to burn off energy and see other people and run errands. We are not sitting around all day staring at each other while I put on some household chores strike.

No, I don't have any misconceptions. I have stayed home with children of all ages. I agree re the ironing of the shirts, but I also think the SAHM bandwith increases after the kids go to school -if you are still SAHM, I would expect you to do the vast bulk of the chores.

Oh I completely agree with that. If the kids are in school, nothing is keeping you from cleaning the house or doing household things unless you have some special situation specific to you/DH.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ultimate hypocrisy. “The future is female” - so I’ll stay home while a man pays.

I had a lengthy conversation with a sahd yesterday. Feel better?

Was he at home with a son, a woman supporting them both, and crowing “the future is male!?”

I’d say no different were that the case.

If you don’t see the irony in that quote from the article, I can’t help you.

When one person takes care of the children and homefront, that allows the partner to work, including travel, unfettered by childcare and other home-based concerns. There is huge value in that, and it’s the partnership that allows it. They are both supporting the entire family unit. No irony.

Maybe in some SAHM situations. In my case, I see my child as my daytime occupation. If I throw in laundry or dishes, fine, but I’m not home slaving away at the house while DH sits back. He gets home and helps with dishes and laundry and takes the trash out we hire cleaners to come once every 2-3 weeks so neither of us has to scrub toilets. Once DH isn’t home for the night, child duties are split between us, most of the time more heavily in DH’s direction as he often does both bath and bed.

Meant to say once DH *is home* for the night, childcare is split... I wouldn’t say DH is unfettered by child and home concerns.

What I meant by that is that the partner earning an income can travel for work, stay late for meetings, head to the office when a kid is sick, not have to come home to meet a contractor, etc. Unfettered in that sense.

This attitude is ridiculous. The kid is not a lump of clay. A child should not be a "datime occupation". This mindset is an issue. Staying home is not. Moms like this are honestly creating monsters and a real PITA themselves. Its not rocket science and hell yeah, you should be doing the laundry. How TF would you not have the time? I have WOHM, SAHM and worked partime and so has my spouse and the one home with the kid does this stuff. That is how it is done. No, it is not fair to refuse to do household chores when you are not earning any income because your child is an "occupation". GTFO yourself.

I don't see my time with my kids as an "occupation" but I also don't see that I'm automatically responsible for more of the general household chores. I'll do them if I can, but they certainly aren't my "job" either.

I don't know what I think about that. I think as a general rule that stuff should be done by the person who has the time, or cares more. I don't see how the former would not usually be the SAHM. If I am really busy at work and my husband is off for any reason, I certainly expect him to do the household chores. I don't see why that would not be the general assumption. Your "job" is not staring at your kid all day, and anyone should be able to handle having a small child and doing the laundry. Sorry if that isn't popular, but come on.

To that end, everyone I know that employs a caretaker for young kids expects that they will do the dishes and do the laundry for the kid. Why would you not expect the same from a SAHM? Seriously, that's just a crappy deal if not. I would not take it. Sorry.

"A crappy deal"? You are negotiating your family's approach to childcare?

Every single family that has ever discussed this has negotiated their approach to child care. If you are not talking about it, you are...what, exactly? Yes, when my husband took a job that paid much more and required more hours, I said I would need to cut back to drive the kids around and I would do the dishes and laundry so he could work more and we could save more. I fail entirely to see how coming up with an arrangement that seems fair and workable is bad?

We decide together the best childcare for our kids. Household chores do not enter the conversation. It's not "a deal".

This makes no sense. How do you decide who does what chores? Having a conversation about it isn't some kind of bad thing. You sound defensive and ridiculous, sorry.

Household chores are a separate conversation and much more fluid. Not related to kids.

Yeah, I don't get this. The spouse AT HOME where the freakin laundry and yard and dishes ARE LOCATED who has young kids who presumably nap and lets see, no other "job" presumably has more time and access to said chore locations. Why would they not do the chores? Why would you not think you should do most of the chores?

Why do you assume the spouse at home has no other "jobs"?

Childcare (kid meals, dishes, laundry, activities) takes up a lot of the day. All capable family members can contribute to general household responsibilities. AKA older kids can do their own laundry.

I was raised by an old school immigrant, it is true, but this level of laziness just shocks me. I cannot imagine being unable to take care of a couple of kids and run a household. It is not, as they say, rocket science.

In our family no single person “runs the household”. Everyone carries their own weight.

The only people “unable” to take of anything are the very youngest kids.

[Anonymous]

"What do you do?"

"I'm rich AF bitches, I do what I want!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"What do you do?"

"I'm rich AF bitches, I do what I want!"

I want to use this. Instead I just say “I’m an unemployable mooch” if people are prying too much. So I’ve maybe said it twice. Ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Ultimate hypocrisy. “The future is female” - so I’ll stay home while a man pays.

I had a lengthy conversation with a sahd yesterday. Feel better?

Was he at home with a son, a woman supporting them both, and crowing “the future is male!?”

I’d say no different were that the case.

If you don’t see the irony in that quote from the article, I can’t help you.

When one person takes care of the children and homefront, that allows the partner to work, including travel, unfettered by childcare and other home-based concerns. There is huge value in that, and it’s the partnership that allows it. They are both supporting the entire family unit. No irony.

Except they are both being terrible members of society by promoting the traditional “workaholic Dad with SAHW/personal assistant” setup. Just the other day, a senior person in my company (who has a SAHW) made a snarky comment about another guy taking his full paternity leave. At the end of the day, these assholes adhere to the traditional facetime/60 hours working week lifestyle instead of getting onboard with flexible work policies.

Or not. My husband took his entire paternity leave with both our kids, even though I SAH with them.
He also takes them to practices/lessons/games, actively helps with HW if they want, comes home early enough to not only eat dinner with us but makes it sometimes too. Works from home when he can, travels only a few times a year for work, takes vacations where he doesn’t check work emails the entire week.

What he doesn’t do is drop them at before care or pickup from after care, freak out /fight with me over who can’t miss work because someone has to stay home again with a sick kid (did I mention that between my two they’ve missed two full weeks of school already with illnesses this year-five weeks into it!)

But I also don’t care and don’t freak out when the cashier or other random person asks if I have the day off.

But part of that is you are describing a scenario where neither parent aimed for a family friendly job — we both work full time, but have no problem calling in sick if a kid is sick, and with older elementary kids you just stay home in case they get worse, you can still work b/c they don’t need active care. Most places have contingency planning, and very few roles REQUIRE a particular person on a PARTICULAR day until you get to thinks like CEOs etc — Doctors have shifts and trade off care, emergency personnel have coverage plans, etc.

Kinda curious, I’m sure I’m going to jinx myself but do most kids even get sick that often? I think my kids have been home for like 5 days over 8 years of elementary school. Is that because of the trial by fire of daycare (though those are almost always endless colds, so never really stayed home) or because we get the flu shot? I guess part of it is we genetically not susceptible to strep (none of us, parents included, have ever had it) — that seems to be the Bain of many families.

About how many days my kids have missed-no, this is not necessarily normal. This is the most days in the least amount of time my kids have missed. They are 8 and 12 and usually healthy. This has been a non overlapping virus plus strep and never ending fevers.
We have definitely had streaks of a week long illness before.

[Anonymous]

OMG, I know this person .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today my cleaning lady came for the weekly cleaning. She and her associate, worked along side me for 3 hours, to change sheets, clean the fridge, sweep the garage, water plants and bring them inside, clean the pantry, clean the kitchen and bathrooms and mop the floors. Obviously this meant that I dusted all rooms. removed and shook all the rugs, did the laundry, arranged the dressers and closets, swept the floors and vacuumed. I pay them by the hour and I am a SAHM.

I suddenly realized that I have never really not worked when they have come to clean my house. It is a 9 man-hour marathon, where they stand-in and do the work that ordinarily my DH and kids would have done. When I see how hard my DH and my kids work and how much they achieve, I know that I am their logistical support person.

I do not have any existential crisis, because some days goes in helping my children with their studies, some days go in looking after our finances and paperwork (tax, immigration, investments, credentials), some days go in social obligations and some days in school, church, or just relaxing.

We all have 24 hours. No one is doing more work than the next person. I obviously am not looking at a computer for as long as a working woman in an office job is, but I am able to do enough work on the computer that works for my family. The working woman is not doing the amount of domestic work that a household requires, but she is able to do enough to get every one fed, clothed and keep the house running.

Many working mom' I know do everything you just listed. It never needs to be this stupid pissing contest, but posts like this make it so. Look, you stay at home because it was best and easiest for your family. So, like, it should be easier. Rest assured that you have it easier than the working moms that have spouses that work crazy shifts who also do all the household work, the homework, the coordinating of it all, and all the paperwork. And that is most of the working moms I know.

NP. I agree!
The working moms need this cleaning lady and associate lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I SAH with an almost 3 year old. I’d say that the difference in housework from when I was working is that we no longer have to spend our weekends cleaning or doing laundry. I’m able to throw in a load or two in the afternoon when I am home and we are no longer doing marathon sessions every Saturday. We also no longer need to spend every weekend vacuuming because I can do it during the day. But evening chores still happen. Sure, it’s lighter because maybe I’ve already washed and folded a load of towels that day, but we still have the kitchen clean up and there are more items to clean and put away and organize because we have a child. There’s more dishes to put away after I run the dishwasher and there’s of course more laundry. I do all the kid related shopping, household grocery shopping and kid related cleaning and some communal laundry like towels or a shared load of DH and my clothes, but there’s no way I see scrubbing toilets or ironing DH’s shirt as only my job simply because I SAH. If DH stayed at home, I’d feel the same. I wouldn’t expect him to be scrubbing toilets or ironing my shirts.

I think many people have mistaken ideas of what staying at home looks like with a child who is not an infant. It’s not like my 3 year old is taking naps all day and I can’t just stick him in my carrier and clean the whole house. He is running around and making messes (and helping to clean them up too) and we need to play outside and leave the house to burn off energy and see other people and run errands. We are not sitting around all day staring at each other while I put on some household chores strike.

Weird post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ultimate hypocrisy. “The future is female” - so I’ll stay home while a man pays.

I had a lengthy conversation with a sahd yesterday. Feel better?

Was he at home with a son, a woman supporting them both, and crowing “the future is male!?”

I’d say no different were that the case.

If you don’t see the irony in that quote from the article, I can’t help you.

When one person takes care of the children and homefront, that allows the partner to work, including travel, unfettered by childcare and other home-based concerns. There is huge value in that, and it’s the partnership that allows it. They are both supporting the entire family unit. No irony.

Maybe in some SAHM situations. In my case, I see my child as my daytime occupation. If I throw in laundry or dishes, fine, but I’m not home slaving away at the house while DH sits back. He gets home and helps with dishes and laundry and takes the trash out we hire cleaners to come once every 2-3 weeks so neither of us has to scrub toilets. Once DH isn’t home for the night, child duties are split between us, most of the time more heavily in DH’s direction as he often does both bath and bed.

Meant to say once DH *is home* for the night, childcare is split... I wouldn’t say DH is unfettered by child and home concerns.

What I meant by that is that the partner earning an income can travel for work, stay late for meetings, head to the office when a kid is sick, not have to come home to meet a contractor, etc. Unfettered in that sense.

Yeah, but that kind of stuff is called being a parent. Also called being a house owner, if you want to talk about a contractor. I get that that stuff is inconvenient, but it sounds like these parents (dad in your scenario) want to have kids as long as they're not inconvenienced by them. To me, that's offputting. And I work full time, so I'm not one of those "why did you have kids if you're only going to abandon them to a nanny" hand wringers.