An interesting article about MCPS student population

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

No one is talking about minorities, we are talking about the influx of Hispanics, most of which are illegal and how our county is paying a huge amount of their budget towards these illegal immigrants, whether it is thru FARMS, ESOL, etc... You don't increase a population over 125% in less than 15 years no matter how many babies they are popping out. Unless you think all of these families from El Salvador, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc... applied for citizenship and entered here legally. Do you believe that?

But out of curiosity, please post these countries that you are talking about.

The ones I know about are Norway, Hungary, Slovakia, but I think most European countries make some provisions. In some countries, the goal is to get non-native speakers up to speed with the dominant language by a certain grade. So school starts in their native language, but then the dominant language is introduced more and more. Anyway, I am not claiming this is a perfect system, just illustrating that other countries make an effort to help non-native speakers too.

They do this for illegal immigrants?

[Anonymous]

People are complaining about portable classrooms and overcrowding BECAUSE of white flight to the W schools. If you insist that only a handful of schools in the richest areas could possibly be apprpriate for your children, then don't be surprised when they get overcrowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

No one is talking about minorities, we are talking about the influx of Hispanics, most of which are illegal and how our county is paying a huge amount of their budget towards these illegal immigrants, whether it is thru FARMS, ESOL, etc... You don't increase a population over 125% in less than 15 years no matter how many babies they are popping out. Unless you think all of these families from El Salvador, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc... applied for citizenship and entered here legally. Do you believe that?

But out of curiosity, please post these countries that you are talking about.

The ones I know about are Norway, Hungary, Slovakia, but I think most European countries make some provisions. In some countries, the goal is to get non-native speakers up to speed with the dominant language by a certain grade. So school starts in their native language, but then the dominant language is introduced more and more. Anyway, I am not claiming this is a perfect system, just illustrating that other countries make an effort to help non-native speakers too.

They do this for illegal immigrants?

Yes.

The difference there is that most education dollars come from the federal government, which is in fact happy to see a growing number of immigrants (it's a net positive for the country).

The problem here is that the benefits (increased income tax base, SS & payroll taxes) accrue at the federal level, but the costs are suffered at the local level)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

No one is talking about minorities, we are talking about the influx of Hispanics, most of which are illegal and how our county is paying a huge amount of their budget towards these illegal immigrants, whether it is thru FARMS, ESOL, etc... You don't increase a population over 125% in less than 15 years no matter how many babies they are popping out. Unless you think all of these families from El Salvador, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc... applied for citizenship and entered here legally. Do you believe that?

But out of curiosity, please post these countries that you are talking about.

The ones I know about are Norway, Hungary, Slovakia, but I think most European countries make some provisions. In some countries, the goal is to get non-native speakers up to speed with the dominant language by a certain grade. So school starts in their native language, but then the dominant language is introduced more and more. Anyway, I am not claiming this is a perfect system, just illustrating that other countries make an effort to help non-native speakers too.

They do this for illegal immigrants?

I don't know nor do I claim to be an expert. But it seems that if the situation is untenable as some here claim, energy might be better spent by looking into more creative solutions, such as the bilingual school in Kemp Mill -- why can't that be a model, with benefits to both native Spanish and English speakers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm one that started the major comment people have been jumping off of

Let me break it down for you

By the way Fairfax County has a similar situation

In both counties there are three types of areas

1. Rich mostly white and asian areas where people have no idea what is going on

2. Crappy areas with low HHI terrible test scores and large black/hispanic populations

3. The most important transitional areas aka ground zero. These are areas that have seen hispanic populations explode over the last 15 years (remember hispanic population has DOUBLED the last 15 years and is now #1 in both Fairfax County and Montgomery County. These are the areas where white flight is occuring. People in #1 have no clue this is going on
Whites are fleeing to Howard and Loudoun and/or going private in droves

Something has to give here folks

Standard of Living in Fairfax and Montgomery has gone down the last 15 years. The richest counties are now Loudoun and Howard counties. You do the math

Again for those of you in category 1 you need to wake the heck up before Fairfax and Montgomery reach a death spiral of more and more government services required = higher and highers taxes.... I mean personally I think we are already there.

Wake the heck up

Hispanics are the plurality in MCPS; whites are the plurality in Fairfax.

The Hispanic enrollment is the only enrollment really increasing in MCPS; the Hispanic and Asian populations in Fairfax have both been growing.

Fairfax has a much larger not super-affluent, but still upper-middle, class than Montgomery: think Chantilly, Burke, Fairfax, Fairfax Station, Reston, West Springfield, Centreville, Herndon and Lorton vs. North Potomac, Damascus, Olney and Rockville.

Sorry, your ship is yours alone. You can thank your high-tax, anti-growth, pro-handouts politicians for that.

[Anonymous]

To all the PPs who keep crying 'RACISM!!' at this thread, I'd like to hear more from you.

Do you think that the problems of overcrowding/large class sizes/portable classrooms are not actually an issue? What schools are you kids at that they do not face these problems?

Do you think the county is developing in a responsible manner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

No one is talking about minorities, we are talking about the influx of Hispanics, most of which are illegal and how our county is paying a huge amount of their budget towards these illegal immigrants, whether it is thru FARMS, ESOL, etc... You don't increase a population over 125% in less than 15 years no matter how many babies they are popping out. Unless you think all of these families from El Salvador, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc... applied for citizenship and entered here legally. Do you believe that?

But out of curiosity, please post these countries that you are talking about.

The ones I know about are Norway, Hungary, Slovakia, but I think most European countries make some provisions. In some countries, the goal is to get non-native speakers up to speed with the dominant language by a certain grade. So school starts in their native language, but then the dominant language is introduced more and more. Anyway, I am not claiming this is a perfect system, just illustrating that other countries make an effort to help non-native speakers too.

They do this for illegal immigrants?

Canada has a right to education law for "illegal immigrants" -'d has ESOL programs for such children. Vancouver, for example, has thousands of children of undocumented parents who attend ESOL programs paid for by taxpayer money. They figure an educated population is better for everyone than children who have to hide at home all day and eventually grow into troubled teens and preteens with negative societial impact.

[Anonymous]

I'm not getting the "white flight to Howard County" poster.

Howard County has a growing number of immigrants and housing prices in at least some of the county (Columbia) are not rising as fast as the closer in parts of Silver Spring(Forest Glen area through near downtown SS).

It is a whole different lifestyle and people take account more factors than just schools - including commute (a huge one), and walkability (which Howard County is low on).

[Anonymous]

I just saw this on FB and thought of this thread! Apparently people in Columbia aren't thrilled with the development occurring up there either. Not sure if the link will work, but it's not about race. It's about traffic and overcrowded schools and covering up all the green space with cement and glass.

https://www.facebook.com/Columbia2.0/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

No one is talking about minorities, we are talking about the influx of Hispanics, most of which are illegal and how our county is paying a huge amount of their budget towards these illegal immigrants, whether it is thru FARMS, ESOL, etc... You don't increase a population over 125% in less than 15 years no matter how many babies they are popping out. Unless you think all of these families from El Salvador, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc... applied for citizenship and entered here legally. Do you believe that?

But out of curiosity, please post these countries that you are talking about.

The ones I know about are Norway, Hungary, Slovakia, but I think most European countries make some provisions. In some countries, the goal is to get non-native speakers up to speed with the dominant language by a certain grade. So school starts in their native language, but then the dominant language is introduced more and more. Anyway, I am not claiming this is a perfect system, just illustrating that other countries make an effort to help non-native speakers too.

They do this for illegal immigrants?

Canada has a right to education law for "illegal immigrants" -'d has ESOL programs for such children. Vancouver, for example, has thousands of children of undocumented parents who attend ESOL programs paid for by taxpayer money. They figure an educated population is better for everyone than children who have to hide at home all day and eventually grow into troubled teens and preteens with negative societial impact.

I wonder how many illegal immigrants these countries have vs. the US. It's the sheer numbers here that are overwhelming the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To all the PPs who keep crying 'RACISM!!' at this thread, I'd like to hear more from you.

Do you think that the problems of overcrowding/large class sizes/portable classrooms are not actually an issue? What schools are you kids at that they do not face these problems?

Do you think the county is developing in a responsible manner?

1. They certainly aren't an issue at our school. We are actually a touch under capacity, although using all of our available classrooms.

2. No, actually. I think the county is developing too much too quickly, and severely underestimating how many apartment dwellers will have school-aged kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

No one is talking about minorities, we are talking about the influx of Hispanics, most of which are illegal and how our county is paying a huge amount of their budget towards these illegal immigrants, whether it is thru FARMS, ESOL, etc... You don't increase a population over 125% in less than 15 years no matter how many babies they are popping out. Unless you think all of these families from El Salvador, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc... applied for citizenship and entered here legally. Do you believe that?

But out of curiosity, please post these countries that you are talking about.

The ones I know about are Norway, Hungary, Slovakia, but I think most European countries make some provisions. In some countries, the goal is to get non-native speakers up to speed with the dominant language by a certain grade. So school starts in their native language, but then the dominant language is introduced more and more. Anyway, I am not claiming this is a perfect system, just illustrating that other countries make an effort to help non-native speakers too.

They do this for illegal immigrants?

Canada has a right to education law for "illegal immigrants" -'d has ESOL programs for such children. Vancouver, for example, has thousands of children of undocumented parents who attend ESOL programs paid for by taxpayer money. They figure an educated population is better for everyone than children who have to hide at home all day and eventually grow into troubled teens and preteens with negative societial impact.

I wonder how many illegal immigrants these countries have vs. the US. It's the sheer numbers here that are overwhelming the system.

Canada is in desperate need of just people. Their population is plummeting. They are bringing in immigrants with temporary visas to work, live, and even go to school. They WANT this. They fly them to their country. There is a reciprocal agreement.

This is so much different than truckloads of poor illegal immigrants sneaking across the order, shacking up in low income housing, making money and sending it home to their families at their home country. Meanwhile they send their kids to school here as basic daycare, do little to assimilate, ship their money instead of spending here, and complain about being treated poorly and unfairly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are complaining about portable classrooms and overcrowding BECAUSE of white flight to the W schools. If you insist that only a handful of schools in the richest areas could possibly be apprpriate for your children, then don't be surprised when they get overcrowded.

We have overcrowding in our non-W, 30% white school. Five classes on portables.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who is this person who keeps claiming white flight is going to Howard County. I've lived in DC on and off for 15 years, in the city and in the suburbs, and have never even met anyone who lives in Howard County let alone someone willing to do that commute. A handful of colleagues live in Anne Arundel County for specific school options, but this idea that a large number of Montgomery County residents will flee that far is unlikely.

Search the real estate thread for Howard County - many posts from people inquiring about Howard County as they consider it vs Mo Co for where to move to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is this person who keeps claiming white flight is going to Howard County. I've lived in DC on and off for 15 years, in the city and in the suburbs, and have never even met anyone who lives in Howard County let alone someone willing to do that commute. A handful of colleagues live in Anne Arundel County for specific school options, but this idea that a large number of Montgomery County residents will flee that far is unlikely.

Search the real estate thread for Howard County - many posts from people inquiring about Howard County as they consider it vs Mo Co for where to move to.

I don't doubt there are people who want to live in Howard County. What I doubt is that people who have actively chosen an urban, walkable, diverse, neighborhood like Takoma Park or Silver Spring are going to up and move 45 minutes away because they fear the coming Brown menace.