An interesting article about MCPS student population

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what white flight looks like in real time, the real question is what will happen to the area if it continues and if the historical effects such as depressed property values, school results and crime follow. Looking at the metrics the schools are starting to decline in those areas in the east.

I'm on the east side of the county and all the schools in our area went UP one or two GS points this year.

They changed the formula but still most went down over there. Rationalize it how you want but the proformace gap is as prevelant as it always is and the eastern part and county as a whole is getting browner and poorer so either we are solving the under performance of the poor and minorities or you are looking at the wrong gauges. Of course willfully ignorant is a possibility

If they changed their formula, why did Whitman's score do down?

Ha. Good one.

[Anonymous]

I would say it is difficult to believe that the concern is actually growth since the total number of students grew 18% in 16 years for an average growth rate of 1% a year (it compounds). We started with 133,901 in 2000 and ended with 158,873 in 2016 based on that graph originally posted. That would appear to be quite normal. In fact, the US population grew 14% over that same timeframe. So, in terms of population growth, we (MCPS) are behind. I just checked.

So it can't be overall growth or disproportionate crowding - we are actually slower than the average. It would appear that the crowding out is of the previous majority. And that is just life. It seems as though the 'too many students' is actually 'too many students of a certain type'.

Facts are tough to deal with. Great graph, though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

I have zero empathy for illegal immigrants whether they are 40yr old Canadians, 20yr old Iranians, or 7yr old El Salvadorians. I do however have extreme empathy for the immigrants who struggle and wait to enter American legally and how long they have to wait because so many cut in line and eat up the resources the honest immigrants deserve.

I do have empathy for my kids who are only being taught their native language in school when all other countries teach their kids 1-2 more languages in elementary school. The ESOL kids of course are getting the advantage here again. They are the only kids being taught 2 languages for free. Legal citizens? Nope.

As far as I know MCPS doesn't distinguish between illegal and "honest" Hispanic/ESOL kids. Why are you then angry with the whole group? I agree that it would be nice if all kids could learn a foreign language in ES. But I suspect not having this is more due to the low value placed on foreign languages in the US
in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

It's pretty simplistic to see all of the PPs as racist. There are some prettt valid concerns about overpopulation and school overcrowding.

Honestly it is an issue for people of ALL races when the schools are overcrowded and the teachers are overworked.

This. Thank you voice of reason. Everyone loses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say it is difficult to believe that the concern is actually growth since the total number of students grew 18% in 16 years for an average growth rate of 1% a year (it compounds). We started with 133,901 in 2000 and ended with 158,873 in 2016 based on that graph originally posted. That would appear to be quite normal. In fact, the US population grew 14% over that same timeframe. So, in terms of population growth, we (MCPS) are behind. I just checked.

So it can't be overall growth or disproportionate crowding - we are actually slower than the average. It would appear that the crowding out is of the previous majority. And that is just life. It seems as though the 'too many students' is actually 'too many students of a certain type'.

Facts are tough to deal with. Great graph, though!

I don't think kids with 10 portables at their school and eating lunch at 10am, and have music/art come to their class because there are no classrooms really give shits about who is making the school so crowded. I think they are wondering why a county making so much money on their building can not fork any over to build new schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

[Anonymous]

Look at the flood of people going to the W's, that is white flight. Look at everywhere in silver spring except the very closest parts of the downtown, complete downward trends. Lee middle school is rapidly on the path to being a title 1 middle school, that used to be a quaint Jewish area, University Blvd and Piney Branch might as well be Langley Park now. The apt building that blew up which was basically on the edge of Takoma Park was almost 100% illegal immigrants, they had a hard time finding English speaking residents for the news. The funny part is the few enclaves that are still mainly white that allows the few residents to be oblivious but deep down they know they need to fight for the sibling link for the immersion programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the flood of people going to the W's, that is white flight. Look at everywhere in silver spring except the very closest parts of the downtown, complete downward trends. Lee middle school is rapidly on the path to being a title 1 middle school, that used to be a quaint Jewish area, University Blvd and Piney Branch might as well be Langley Park now. The apt building that blew up which was basically on the edge of Takoma Park was almost 100% illegal immigrants, they had a hard time finding English speaking residents for the news. The funny part is the few enclaves that are still mainly white that allows the few residents to be oblivious but deep down they know they need to fight for the sibling link for the immersion programs.

It is definitely a 100% true statement that anyone who doesn't speak English fluently is an illegal immigrant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say it is difficult to believe that the concern is actually growth since the total number of students grew 18% in 16 years for an average growth rate of 1% a year (it compounds). We started with 133,901 in 2000 and ended with 158,873 in 2016 based on that graph originally posted. That would appear to be quite normal. In fact, the US population grew 14% over that same timeframe. So, in terms of population growth, we (MCPS) are behind. I just checked.

So it can't be overall growth or disproportionate crowding - we are actually slower than the average. It would appear that the crowding out is of the previous majority. And that is just life. It seems as though the 'too many students' is actually 'too many students of a certain type'.

Facts are tough to deal with. Great graph, though!

I don't think kids with 10 portables at their school and eating lunch at 10am, and have music/art come to their class because there are no classrooms really give shits about who is making the school so crowded. I think they are wondering why a county making so much money on their building can not fork any over to build new schools.

Yes, this exactly is my issue. I commented upthread. I haven't even mentioned race so not everyone is focused on that. Overcrowding sucks for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the flood of people going to the W's, that is white flight. Look at everywhere in silver spring except the very closest parts of the downtown, complete downward trends. Lee middle school is rapidly on the path to being a title 1 middle school, that used to be a quaint Jewish area, University Blvd and Piney Branch might as well be Langley Park now. The apt building that blew up which was basically on the edge of Takoma Park was almost 100% illegal immigrants, they had a hard time finding English speaking residents for the news. The funny part is the few enclaves that are still mainly white that allows the few residents to be oblivious but deep down they know they need to fight for the sibling link for the immersion programs.

It is definitely a 100% true statement that anyone who doesn't speak English fluently is an illegal immigrant.

So the following are descriptions of your dream country: a country without a common language and each group is tightly controlled by power brokers due to language barriers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say it is difficult to believe that the concern is actually growth since the total number of students grew 18% in 16 years for an average growth rate of 1% a year (it compounds). We started with 133,901 in 2000 and ended with 158,873 in 2016 based on that graph originally posted. That would appear to be quite normal. In fact, the US population grew 14% over that same timeframe. So, in terms of population growth, we (MCPS) are behind. I just checked.

So it can't be overall growth or disproportionate crowding - we are actually slower than the average. It would appear that the crowding out is of the previous majority. And that is just life. It seems as though the 'too many students' is actually 'too many students of a certain type'.

Facts are tough to deal with. Great graph, though!

I don't think kids with 10 portables at their school and eating lunch at 10am, and have music/art come to their class because there are no classrooms really give shits about who is making the school so crowded. I think they are wondering why a county making so much money on their building can not fork any over to build new schools.

Agreed. At our school the whole third grade (5 classes) are in portables. If there is enough space in other MCPS schools - then MCPS needs to do some redistricting and SOON.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say it is difficult to believe that the concern is actually growth since the total number of students grew 18% in 16 years for an average growth rate of 1% a year (it compounds). We started with 133,901 in 2000 and ended with 158,873 in 2016 based on that graph originally posted. That would appear to be quite normal. In fact, the US population grew 14% over that same timeframe. So, in terms of population growth, we (MCPS) are behind. I just checked.

So it can't be overall growth or disproportionate crowding - we are actually slower than the average. It would appear that the crowding out is of the previous majority. And that is just life. It seems as though the 'too many students' is actually 'too many students of a certain type'.

Facts are tough to deal with. Great graph, though!

I don't think kids with 10 portables at their school and eating lunch at 10am, and have music/art come to their class because there are no classrooms really give shits about who is making the school so crowded. I think they are wondering why a county making so much money on their building can not fork any over to build new schools.

Agreed. At our school the whole third grade (5 classes) are in portables. If there is enough space in other MCPS schools - then MCPS needs to do some redistricting and SOON.

Not to mention with all the building I see going on around us - numbers are just going to go up. I feel like there is no plan to deal with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

No one is talking about minorities, we are talking about the influx of Hispanics, most of which are illegal and how our county is paying a huge amount of their budget towards these illegal immigrants, whether it is thru FARMS, ESOL, etc... You don't increase a population over 125% in less than 15 years no matter how many babies they are popping out. Unless you think all of these families from El Salvador, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc... applied for citizenship and entered here legally. Do you believe that?

But out of curiosity, please post these countries that you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness, you guys DO realize how racist you sound, right? "Hispanics are coming, there goes the neighborhood!" I hate to break it to you, but in the youngest generation, white people are a minority of the population. This means that most urban areas will become mostly non-white. But don't worry! White people don't have the market cornered on moral values or ambition. Also, FARMs kids are not all losers and dregs. In fact, I am a former white FARMs kid and I grew up and now have a HHI that is more than 20x what I grew up with. Things will change, and your white skin won't save you from hard work and adaptation.

These kids are illegal. They can't grow up and work here legally. Anchor babies, unfortunatly yes but not illegal kids.

And you realize that all these illegal aliens cost not only in FARMS but ESOL now too. We have to pay teachers to teach kids English on our dime in school. Can you list any other countries in the world that not only allow illegal aliens to go to school in their country for free but take their citizen's taxes and pay for an entire department to teach the kids the language spoken in their country? Do you realize how insane that is. Do you see our test scores going down, our ratios going up, our schools doing poorly? I guess you are oblivious to what the change is. Where the millions going to help illegal immigrants could contain over-crowding, help ratios, help the LEGAL children living in poverty, get legal parents better jobs, etc....

Well one solution is to make Spanish the official language of instruction in MoCo schools (why not, if Spanish speakers are the majority). Since apparently you're incapable of empathy, I look forward to your kids' struggle with SSOL.

So instead of posting other countries that do this like the PP asked, you go on the defense and say the entire county should teach in Spanish instead? Brilliant.

Since you're mentioning other countries, this is exactly what many do -- provide education for their minorities in their native language. The suggestion that the whole of MoCo go Spanish was clearly tounge in cheek, and if you can't tell I can't help you.

But yet you aren't listing the countries. Please list those countries that have public schools that accept illegal immigrants and teach them the country's native language outside of the classroom with separate teachers, paid for by legal citizen's taxes. I would love to see this list.

I meant provide the education of (sizable) minorities in the respective minority language.

No one is talking about minorities, we are talking about the influx of Hispanics, most of which are illegal and how our county is paying a huge amount of their budget towards these illegal immigrants, whether it is thru FARMS, ESOL, etc... You don't increase a population over 125% in less than 15 years no matter how many babies they are popping out. Unless you think all of these families from El Salvador, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc... applied for citizenship and entered here legally. Do you believe that?

But out of curiosity, please post these countries that you are talking about.

The ones I know about are Norway, Hungary, Slovakia, but I think most European countries make some provisions. In some countries, the goal is to get non-native speakers up to speed with the dominant language by a certain grade. So school starts in their native language, but then the dominant language is introduced more and more. Anyway, I am not claiming this is a perfect system, just illustrating that other countries make an effort to help non-native speakers too.