Don't Let a Guy Waste Your Most Eligible Years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ladies: if you are interested in getting married, you need to be well aware of the fact that you are probably most attractive sometime in your mid- to late-twenties. This means that your mid- to late-twenties are the years in which you are most likely to attract the highest quality man you can get. And while maximizing your attractiveness is key, it all counts for nothing if you aren't single when the right guy comes along, or if you aren't putting yourself out there because you are involved with someone who is only half-committed to you. So in addition to looking your best, you need to make sure you aren't spending time in dead-end relationships.

Time and time again I see or hear about girls who allow a guy to date them for three or four years in their twenties without proposing. This blows my mind. I understand that these girls are holding out in the hope of eventually getting a proposal, but they don't give enough consideration to the possibility that they'll be strung along for another two or three years, only to have him decide that he wants someone else - or worse yet, someone younger. Combine this with a girl's reduced odds of finding someone (let alone someone better) once she begins to age and things begin to fall into perspective; it seems crazy to consider dating someone for more than a year without a very strong confidence about the direction in which the relationship is heading.

Ladies: don't give a guy your most eligible years with nothing to show for it. This is bullshit. If you ultimately want to get married and your current relationship isn't constantly growing stronger (i.e. approaching something permanent), then you need to start asking questions. And if you aren't getting satisfactory answers, it is time to look elsewhere. The clock is ticking.

Furthermore, your time is your responsibility - not his. For better or worse, men will not make commitments that aren't required of them. If he isn't taking things to the next level when you think it is appropriate, break up with him. You can do this nicely, and you should explain your reasoning clearly, but you should still break up with him. More easily said than done? Probably. But it is the best move nonetheless. If he really wants you, he will try to get you back; but if he doesn't, remember: during your most eligible years, you are better off being back on the market than tied up in a dead-end relationship.

This is amongst the most chauvinist, sexist, arrogant, and ignorant post I have ever come across on this forum. OP clearly has no authoritative experience understanding love, relationships, and seem to assume that marriage-however defined- is appropriate for everyone and all relationships. This is amateurish and monolithic at best.

I have highlighted the most appalling aspects of this that jump out at me, but for the most part I can only advise OP to continue learning, travel more, embrace other cultures and ethnicities, and perhaps that can help with a more robust view of life. Consider the following:

1. There is no direct positive relationship between AGE and ATTRACTIVENESS. Attraction is firstly a scientific event http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/The_Science_of_Sex_Appeal/70128594

2. The sense of sight is culturally-dependent http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl7cgh_horizon-do-you-see-what-i-see-part-1-4_shortfilms Worth watching the part with the Himba Tribe, which has been an eye opener (pun intended) to the Western world as seen here http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/its-not-easy-seeing-green/.

3. In the Western world (I assume the perspective from which you are writing), women don't "...give their years to men..." Women date freely and make MUTUAL commitments based on what a relationship provides.

4. There are different definitions of marriage, and 'legal marriage' is not necessarily the happy ending for all relationships, or appropriate for everyone, as stated before.

5. Finally, it is perspectives like these which the OP expresses which are responsible for many break-ups and divorces and child support drama. NEVER get involved with someone on the condition that it MUST lead to 'legal marriage'. sizing up people and relationships for marriage potential is the sure road to perdition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly did not realize women waited for men to propose. This is so odd to me.

How old are you and what is your gender?

45yo female

When I met my H at 23 I told him I was not looking to be serious, we dated on and off, not monogamous.
3 years later when I realized he might be the guy and I was 26 I told him that I wanted to get married evnetually and I was going to look for a monogamous relationship, I asked if he was interested. He said, I am not ready for a commitment. So I said, "Awesome, love you, hope you have a great life". No big awful break-up, I was sad, he was sad.... but life goes on.
8 months later he asked me on a a date and I told him I was not interested unless he was thinking of a monogamous relationship. He said he was.
We were monogamous for 2 years and moved in together, ate mac and cheese and jug wine for the next 2 years and bought a house... got married somewhere in between.

I was never just waiting to be proposed to, I had an idea of what I wanted out of life, I communicated that consistently for years and he had the same goals. When he didn't we were not together.

So neither of you proposed? And you moved in before you got married? Huh. I'm a 48 year old female and wouldn't have done it your way. By chance, do you have children?

neither proposed but my H wanted to get me a ring because he though people would think he was a cheapskate.
Yes. We moved in before we got married, actually bought a house before too.
We have 2 children. 12 and 15

I can not tell you how many people assumed that I was the one waiting on him. It was a little pathetic. He actually wanted to get married before we bought the house but I really wanted to make sure we could get into a house first, our apartment was pathetic and we did go away to get married, so I could not commit the funds to a vacation over the house. I know... you wouldn't have done it that way.

Great. You're not traditional or conformist. But you seriously don't have any girlfriends who expected proposals, to the extent you didn't realize men actually proposed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do you do if you're 28 and your bf of 2 years promises to get married but hadn't done anything to prove its going to be a reality?

Why don't you *gasp* TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF and propose to him?

Because most men aren't wired that way. They want to be the pursuer. Marriage works better if the man is more in love with the woman than vice versa. He's got to really want you.

Pursue lots of men, see how many enjoy themselves, report back. Because I think the notion that "men want to be the pursuer" is mostly projection by some women who rather enjoy having men do all the work and take all the risk. And, "marriage works better if the man is more in love with the woman than vice versa"? That's all kinds of fucked up.

The relationships in which I was more into the guy than he was into me - both of them - ended badly.

[Anonymous]

DW and I were together 10 years before we got married.

[Anonymous]

If you are over the age of 28 and you want to get married/have kids, then you should not ever waste more than ONE year without at least having the talk about where it going and should be engaged in 2 years. If you need way more time than you lack self awareness and thats a major issues. Hitting 30 you should have a pretty good idea of your own core values, how to spot core values in others and how to value your own time and gracefully get out of a relationship. And to the poster who said there is not correlation between looks and age. What bubble do you live in? or are DC women that unattractive? FWIW, I did waste a ton of time in a lot of 2 year relationship and a 3 year one in my early 30s. HUGE mistake. I did get married at 38 but have had fertility issues and we will only be able to have one kid. and never ever more in with someone unless you are engaged or have a date set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's an interesting scenario. I've actually been in a relationship with a woman who was 37 when I was 32. Clearly I had the time advantage on my side (no biological clock, etc.). However, at one point in the relationship she did some really unfair stuff to me (including us going sexless for 1 year). Rather than break up with her, I stuck around for 2 extra years just to make sure she lost something (time) too. Seemed fair to me. I was in no rush to move on and we got along as friends, just our sex life had gone to crap. So I basically waited her out. She realized I wouldn't propose when the sex life didn't come back. And she also realized she was about to turn 39. I feel like it was fair.

Wow. You are a horrible person. I desperately hope that karma is real so that it will come to bite you in the ass in a huge way.

[Anonymous]

This is a case of giving advice that will never be taken. At the age of 48, having been married since I was 34, with two kids, I can see the OP's perspective, and actually agree with it. That being said, when I was in my 20s, I would not have changed what I did, even if I had heard her advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a case of giving advice that will never be taken. At the age of 48, having been married since I was 34, with two kids, I can see the OP's perspective, and actually agree with it. That being said, when I was in my 20s, I would not have changed what I did, even if I had heard her advice.

I am 30 and I followed OP's approach. Most of my girlfriends around my age are completely deaf to such advice, however, and will probably learn the hard way. At my age, my girlfriends in their late 30s regret having wasted time on relationships that did not lead to marriage, but my girlfriends in their late 20s won't listen to anyone about ending their time-wasting relationship. It is really interesting to see how people just don't learn from others' mistakes. The feminist mantra that phenomena such as diminishing attractiveness, fertility, and prospects are misogynist lies doesn't help.

[Anonymous]

Most girls I know want to have "adventures" in their twenties, early thirties (by that I mean travel, partying, changing careers, dating lots of different guys, etc.). They don't even want to *think* about marriage until 32-33. Seems valid to me (a man).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post reflects some fucked up notions about a woman's value. As if physical beauty is the beginning and end of what she has to offer. As if it's a good idea for her to "lock in" a life time with a guy who wouldn't want to be with her if she met him in her 30s. As if it's illegal for her to propose.

Date someone who is kind to you. If you love them, marry them. If they don't want to get married & you do, move on to someone else who is kind to you. Repeat as necessary.

x 1000

A lot of women don't even want to get married anymore (Google the millennials take on it). You don't need a husband to have a baby anymore either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most girls I know want to have "adventures" in their twenties, early thirties (by that I mean travel, partying, changing careers, dating lots of different guys, etc.). They don't even want to *think* about marriage until 32-33. Seems valid to me (a man).

This. The 'ideal life' is changing. Well, there never really was one ideal, but now people are feeling less pressure to act like there is and I love it.

[Anonymous]

To the women who are upset at the assertion that attractiveness diminishes with age, what's your take on it exactly? The first thing that attracts a man is a woman's physical appearance. An attractive woman literally melts a man's brains. Now this doesn't last but USA strong reason for a man to attach himself to a woman. Once women lose their looks, how do they hook men?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-interacting-with-woman-leave-man-cognitively-impaired/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most girls I know want to have "adventures" in their twenties, early thirties (by that I mean travel, partying, changing careers, dating lots of different guys, etc.). They don't even want to *think* about marriage until 32-33. Seems valid to me (a man).

The problem with the thinking of these "girls" (and I know, because I was exactly like this 20 or so years ago), is that -- while they are doing all of the aforementioned travel, partying, changing careers, dating lots of different guys and much etc throughout their twenties and early thirties -- they are also squandering away the truly best, last years of their lives to be husband-hunting.

And -- of this I am certain -- they will wake up one day at about 34/35 and wonder WTH happened. All of a sudden, great men (read: husband prospects) are not appearing out of no where to be summarily dated and then tossed aside for the next great guy that comes along. All of a sudden, many or most of their friends are settled down with families. They will notice all the hot young things snipping at their heels on the career climb. The men they do meet who have not been married have "issues;" the ones who are divorced have children and baggage ex-wives.

It's no longer "fun."

This is what OP is stating. You don't control the timetable as much as you want to think you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post reflects some fucked up notions about a woman's value. As if physical beauty is the beginning and end of what she has to offer. As if it's a good idea for her to "lock in" a life time with a guy who wouldn't want to be with her if she met him in her 30s. As if it's illegal for her to propose.

Date someone who is kind to you. If you love them, marry them. If they don't want to get married & you do, move on to someone else who is kind to you. Repeat as necessary.

x 1000

A lot of women don't even want to get married anymore (Google the millennials take on it). You don't need a husband to have a baby anymore either.

Anyone who thinks it would be fine for a woman to have a baby on her own, and not try hard to be able to do it with a partner instead, cannot possibly be a parent. Do you have any idea of the sleepless nights, the trying to hang on for a few minutes more for your partner to get home so you can hand off the baby because you are at your wit's end? Do you know how many diapers need to be changed (around 8 per day), the teeth that will need to brushed twice a day, the meals prepared, drop offs, pickups, paperwork, doctor visits. Do you know that day care usually costs around $1,500 per month, and that two-parent families struggle with the schedule, and one may go into work at 5:00 a.m. and leave work at 3:00 p.m., so the other parent can drop off at 9:00, and work until 7:30 p.m., so the child isn't warehoused in day care 12 hours per day and develop behavioral problems? Do you know you will not be able to make one move without bringing the baby or child along or making advance arrangements for a sitter at probably $15 per hour? Even what would have been a quick stop at the grocery store will involve getting the child in and out of a car seat, wrestling him or her into the shopping cart (if cooperative), saying no to a dozen pleadings and possibly dealing with a melt-down while everyone stares and you and is probably thinking what a terrible parent you are, leaving the grocery cart in the aisle while you make an unexpected terrifying dash for the restroom with a child who stubbornly insisted that he or she did not have to go (or you are unexpectedly changing a poopy diaper at Safeway or your preferred grocery store). Nothing will be quick, easy, or simple again for YEARS. Don't do this on your own unless you have absolutely no other option. I think it may be better not to do it at all than to do it alone.

[Anonymous]

isn't it sort of funny that there's still this societal pressure to find a guy so you can have kids when these days, due to medical advances, you don't actually NEED a guy? but a guy actually CANNOT have a kid without a woman. most guys aren't freaking out about not finding "the one" to start a family. and while you can argue there's a time component for women, it's not like guys want to be chasing after a toddler in their fifties.