Signs your child is on the verge of being "Counseled Out" top private

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for that advice about not mentioning the school. I don't want to settle anything, or any amount of money, but it's still good to keep in mind.
The only thing I want is for my daughter's teacher and the school's administrators to write essays on why they are sorry they violated the ADA.

You are living in fantasy land. You have the grand fantasy about the teacher writing an essay? That will never, ever happen. Ever. Its just not healthy to fixate on a fantasy like that.

This is what will happen: DOJ will reject the whole thing. In the process of rejecting the whole thing, they will notify the school which will ensure that no child of yours is ever accepted into another private school again. Because you will get a rep. I suspect PP is right that you;ve already worn out your welcome, which just greased their decision to counsel out your DC.

It does a huge disservice to your child to keep her in an educational setting that doesn't work for her. Maybe you want to prove your point. But you are sacrificing your DC in the process.

The school did not violate the ADA. You can google all you want and parse out tidbits of information that you want while ignoring the rest, but it won't change the outcome.

You also do your DD a huge disservice by not getting a global evaluation. It sure sounds like she has something going on, and that something isn't SPD. You just seem like someone who digs in. I will NOT change my DD's diagnosis no matter what people say. I WILL go ahead with the DOJ complaint no matter what anybody says. This is why the school doesn't like you.

[Anonymous]

No not at all! My daughter's had lots of evaluations, I've spent close to $5k on them over the past few months, and although they all say she can be easily accommodated at her current school or a Montessori or Waldorf school, we're still being counseled out. We are of course moving on and I'm waiting to hear back from two great schools.
I'm sorry to have elicited such vitriol. If the DOJ decides not to investigate, the school will never know.
I thought my experience might help some other families whose kids are being discriminated against for learning disabilities. As for kids in private school not having any rights, I have to respectfully disagree. I've cited both case law and the ADA website, among others.
It's all good dude!
Wow. You have a real passion and this isn't even your issue. Well, passion is a great thing and I wish you all the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP, if you are still reading this thread, why do you think your DS was singled out or targeted for "counseling out" as opposed to the other kids whose behavior seemed worse? If you stated it earlier, I must have missed it so please forgive.

I think it was for a few reasons. One, we were a financial aid family. I volunteered a lot for the school, but our family could contribute little in the way of money and power. Two, ds was still in elementary when this happened-- elementary grade kids are easier to replace (and pay less tuition) than upper schoolers. It seemed like the school tried very hard to gain and retain older kids, even if they were badly behaved, academically deficient, or both.

Thirdly, I think it was because of the kinds of behaviors ds was exhibiting. He has since been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism, and the kinds of things he got in trouble for reflect that-- inattentiveness, noises (like humming) in class, touching others but not wanting to be touched in return, getting emotional.... The behaviors weren't usually "bad," (and his grades were great), but they were chronic. I think they didn't know how to "handle" him, and decided that he was a "bad kid." I heard a lot of "He's manipulative," and "He needs a firmer hand" from the staff. That's exactly the wrong advice for a HFA kid, but they (and we) didn't know that at the time.

His current school is much better at valuing his strengths and dealing with his weaknesses, thank goodness!

Others may not agree but if you are a financial aid family I think your kid shouldn't have any behavior problems. There are plenty of kids who don't have behavior problems who could benefit from financial aid. I am amazed why schools let poorly behaved kids whose families Ned financial aid stay.

Wow. You are an idiot. Read the post. Her child wasn't poorly behaved he had HFA. So, perhaps the school wasn't the right fit after all. But they clearly handled it poorly. And sadly, while the fact that they were on FA should not matter at all, I'm sure it did factor into the school's unwillingness to help. And shame on you PP for being an ignorant idiot. Let's hope your little snowflakes never get into any kind of trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No not at all! My daughter's had lots of evaluations, I've spent close to $5k on them over the past few months, and although they all say she can be easily accommodated at her current school or a Montessori or Waldorf school, we're still being counseled out. We are of course moving on and I'm waiting to hear back from two great schools.
I'm sorry to have elicited such vitriol. If the DOJ decides not to investigate, the school will never know.
I thought my experience might help some other families whose kids are being discriminated against for learning disabilities. As for kids in private school not having any rights, I have to respectfully disagree. I've cited both case law and the ADA website, among others.
It's all good dude!
Wow. You have a real passion and this isn't even your issue. Well, passion is a great thing and I wish you all the best.

You should make sure. For many investigative agencies a letter of complaint automatically means notification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

[/quote=Anonymous]

I think your child was counseled out appropriately. It wasn't done because your family receives aid it was because the school can't meet his needs.

Other kids might behave badly but if it's just crappy behavior of a NT kid that is something different than a child with autism.

We are a financial aid family at a private school and we sacrifice a lot to pay our portion of the tuition. We do it because our public options are bad and quite frankly I expect the school to maintain a student body that they can reasonably serve academically and behavior wise without taking away from my child.

[/quote=Anonymous]



I agree that it was appropriate for my child to be counseled out. The WAY that they counseled him out was reprehensible. Some of the things that the staff said about him and TO him were demeaning and cruel. They let other children tease and humiliate him. This was at the same time they were singing their own praises about the caring, family-like feel of the school, and how they could turn children around by believing in them, and individualizing to meet their needs.

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with financial aid? You have no idea what school it even was; I was deeply involved for years.

To answer another PP's question, we moved to a better school district, and ds is happy in public school.

I think we were counseled out of a parochial because we were not Catholic. We were paying the Prot. rate (more money) but the school was undergoing management problems and kids were falling through cracks. But we were shabbily treated and and I think a lot of it - and the nastiness of the teachers and administrators - was due to the fact that they were Catholic and were were not. Which is why I will never become a Catholic nor will be children. So you parochials did a really super job of being inclusive and encouraging other Christians to take that step to become CAtholic.

I am very sorry. My kids attend a Catholic parochial/are Catholic and we would never treat you like that.

Thanks 11:35. I'm sure you wouldn't. I was surprised too. I was especially surprised by the bullying - by one teacher sucking up to the new principal, and another administrator also sucking up to him. To the point of outright lying. I described it all after to the former head and she said "They're clearing house". So the Prots had to go. Will NEVER ever subject my children to a Catholic school again. Ever. And not one of us will ever become Catholic. There's just something too twisted in the way they (and my in-laws) work. Manipulative? Or just unsophisticated and gossipy. Whatever. Never. Ever. Catholic. Again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No not at all! My daughter's had lots of evaluations, I've spent close to $5k on them over the past few months, and although they all say she can be easily accommodated at her current school or a Montessori or Waldorf school, we're still being counseled out. We are of course moving on and I'm waiting to hear back from two great schools.
I'm sorry to have elicited such vitriol. If the DOJ decides not to investigate, the school will never know.
I thought my experience might help some other families whose kids are being discriminated against for learning disabilities. As for kids in private school not having any rights, I have to respectfully disagree. I've cited both case law and the ADA website, among others.
It's all good dude!
Wow. You have a real passion and this isn't even your issue. Well, passion is a great thing and I wish you all the best.

I am curious, was your child in a progressive school?

[Anonymous]

We had a child in my daughters grade where I never understood how she even got in. She was crass, disruptive, had problems with other kids, lacked discipline. Interrupted teachers and even the Head. Her mom was trash and came in and threatened another student not to laugh when her daughter did something ( can't remember). Anyway, she got a one way ticket home and was not offered a contract the following year. Very happy they did not tolerate that crap.

[Anonymous]

Yes, my daughter was in a progressive school. I thought they'd be more tolerant, not less. Go figure.
As you can see from the comments above, once your child has been counseled out, people make a lot of assumptions: that your child must be seriously disabled, that he or she had serious, unmanageable behavioral issues and disrupted the entire class, that you were an obnoxious, aggressive, helicopter parent, all of which just makes the experience of being counseled out all the more damaging. And if it happens at a progressive school...well, if such a warm, wonderful, welcoming place would do that to your child, then you all must be super f***ed up. If you try to explain how it all happened, it sounds so preposterous, that people think you're a liar in addition to all of the above.
Again, wouldn't it be nice if the schools had to make their "counseling out" rates public?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, my daughter was in a progressive school. I thought they'd be more tolerant, not less. Go figure.
As you can see from the comments above, once your child has been counseled out, people make a lot of assumptions: that your child must be seriously disabled, that he or she had serious, unmanageable behavioral issues and disrupted the entire class, that you were an obnoxious, aggressive, helicopter parent, all of which just makes the experience of being counseled out all the more damaging. And if it happens at a progressive school...well, if such a warm, wonderful, welcoming place would do that to your child, then you all must be super f***ed up. If you try to explain how it all happened, it sounds so preposterous, that people think you're a liar in addition to all of the above.
Again, wouldn't it be nice if the schools had to make their "counseling out" rates public?

I'm not making any of those assumptions, I've just reacted to the idea of making a complain with DOJ.

I have a child with SN. I understand your anger but everything you are doing will make it more difficult for our kids to be accepted at independent schools. Publish rates for counseled out kids? That will just guarantee that schools won't accept any child who might have any potential problems. File a complaint with DOJ? Again, if it succeeded -- which it won't -- it would just create a disincentive for schools to accept your child and mine.

It really would be better for your child if you took all this energy and directed it instead toward getting a real diagnosis and therefor appropriate interventions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for that advice about not mentioning the school. I don't want to settle anything, or any amount of money, but it's still good to keep in mind.
The only thing I want is for my daughter's teacher and the school's administrators to write essays on why they are sorry they violated the ADA.

You are living in fantasy land. You have the grand fantasy about the teacher writing an essay? That will never, ever happen. Ever. Its just not healthy to fixate on a fantasy like that.

This is what will happen: DOJ will reject the whole thing. In the process of rejecting the whole thing, they will notify the school which will ensure that no child of yours is ever accepted into another private school again. Because you will get a rep. I suspect PP is right that you;ve already worn out your welcome, which just greased their decision to counsel out your DC.

It does a huge disservice to your child to keep her in an educational setting that doesn't work for her. Maybe you want to prove your point. But you are sacrificing your DC in the process.

The school did not violate the ADA. You can google all you want and parse out tidbits of information that you want while ignoring the rest, but it won't change the outcome.

You also do your DD a huge disservice by not getting a global evaluation. It sure sounds like she has something going on, and that something isn't SPD. You just seem like someone who digs in. I will NOT change my DD's diagnosis no matter what people say. I WILL go ahead with the DOJ complaint no matter what anybody says. This is why the school doesn't like you.

It's the U.S. Department of Education to whom the complaint should be sent, not DOJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, my daughter was in a progressive school. I thought they'd be more tolerant, not less. Go figure.
As you can see from the comments above, once your child has been counseled out, people make a lot of assumptions: that your child must be seriously disabled, that he or she had serious, unmanageable behavioral issues and disrupted the entire class, that you were an obnoxious, aggressive, helicopter parent, all of which just makes the experience of being counseled out all the more damaging. And if it happens at a progressive school...well, if such a warm, wonderful, welcoming place would do that to your child, then you all must be super f***ed up. If you try to explain how it all happened, it sounds so preposterous, that people think you're a liar in addition to all of the above.
Again, wouldn't it be nice if the schools had to make their "counseling out" rates public?

OP, we ourselves have had extremely negative experiences with a progressive school. Please be careful. Private schools that are members of AISGW actively share information about their students, their applicants, their former students, and families. From what we've seen, the progressive schools demand the greatest orthodoxy and affirmatively punish parents for complaining. You must not assume that complaints to a government agency will not reach your current school at once. It will.

[Anonymous]

The Office of Civil Rights at the US Department of Education oversees disability discrimination cases at public schools and private schools that receive federal funding:
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/index.html

The Office of Civil Rights handles disability discrimination cases at public accommodations (including independent private schools that are not affiliated with a religious organization and do not receive federal funding):
http://www.ada.gov/enforce_current.htm

I see your point how advocating for a child with a disability could have the unintended consequence of hurting admissions for all kids with disabilities. On the other hand, what's the point of having these laws on the books if parents are afraid to assert their child's rights? It is illegal for schools to deny admission solely on disability, but do they have sneaky ways of doing it? Of course. Should we just accept that reality? How would anything ever improve if we all did that?

I'm not the hostile, spiteful, aggressive person you seem to have cast me as. Prone to quixotic crusades? Yes. Stubbornly pursuing a narrow-minded agenda just for the sake of being right, at the expense of my own daughter's (as well any child with a disabilty's) well-being? No.

I in no way dispute my daughter's diagnosis. I just think schools have a legal and moral obligation to work with mildly disabled kids before showing them the door. They shouldn't assume they can't be successful. Inclusivity ultimately benefits everyone.

I very well may be in a fantasy land. But we'll see. There are laws on the books to protect kids with disabilities in almost all educational settings, and there have been court cases where the parents/kids have prevailed.

BTW I was joking about the school's administration having to write essays about violating the ADA. But wouldn't that be hilarious if they did? That's just the kind of idiotic thing they would force their students to do.

Stop me before I post again! This site is not healthy for me, so I have to stop myself from visiting it again. Maybe some of this information will help someone else out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, my daughter was in a progressive school. I thought they'd be more tolerant, not less. Go figure.
As you can see from the comments above, once your child has been counseled out, people make a lot of assumptions: that your child must be seriously disabled, that he or she had serious, unmanageable behavioral issues and disrupted the entire class, that you were an obnoxious, aggressive, helicopter parent, all of which just makes the experience of being counseled out all the more damaging. And if it happens at a progressive school...well, if such a warm, wonderful, welcoming place would do that to your child, then you all must be super f***ed up. If you try to explain how it all happened, it sounds so preposterous, that people think you're a liar in addition to all of the above.
Again, wouldn't it be nice if the schools had to make their "counseling out" rates public?

I'm not making any of those assumptions, I've just reacted to the idea of making a complain with DOJ.

I have a child with SN. I understand your anger but everything you are doing will make it more difficult for our kids to be accepted at independent schools. Publish rates for counseled out kids? That will just guarantee that schools won't accept any child who might have any potential problems. File a complaint with DOJ? Again, if it succeeded -- which it won't -- it would just create a disincentive for schools to accept your child and mine.

It really would be better for your child if you took all this energy and directed it instead toward getting a real diagnosis and therefor appropriate interventions.[/quote]

+1 Getting a real diagnosis with be more helpful for your daughter in the long run. Stop spinning your wheels by turning all of your anger and energy at a school that obviously could not (or would not) meet your daughter's needs. You are wasting your time.

[Anonymous]

The best thing for your child is to be in a school where the teachers are trained to help her in any way possible (socially, emotionally, and academically). You should be glad that she is no longer at that school because they couldn't give her the support that she needs and deserves. Very few privates have that kinds of support (teachers with that kind of training). Many of us have had to leave a school that wasn't the right fit. I wouldn't exhaust any more energy on this -- you need to move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Office of Civil Rights at the US Department of Education oversees disability discrimination cases at public schools and private schools that receive federal funding:
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/index.html

The Office of Civil Rights handles disability discrimination cases at public accommodations (including independent private schools that are not affiliated with a religious organization and do not receive federal funding):
http://www.ada.gov/enforce_current.htm

I see your point how advocating for a child with a disability could have the unintended consequence of hurting admissions for all kids with disabilities. On the other hand, what's the point of having these laws on the books if parents are afraid to assert their child's rights? It is illegal for schools to deny admission solely on disability, but do they have sneaky ways of doing it? Of course. Should we just accept that reality? How would anything ever improve if we all did that?

I'm not the hostile, spiteful, aggressive person you seem to have cast me as. Prone to quixotic crusades? Yes. Stubbornly pursuing a narrow-minded agenda just for the sake of being right, at the expense of my own daughter's (as well any child with a disabilty's) well-being? No.

I in no way dispute my daughter's diagnosis. I just think schools have a legal and moral obligation to work with mildly disabled kids before showing them the door. They shouldn't assume they can't be successful. Inclusivity ultimately benefits everyone.

I very well may be in a fantasy land. But we'll see. There are laws on the books to protect kids with disabilities in almost all educational settings, and there have been court cases where the parents/kids have prevailed.

BTW I was joking about the school's administration having to write essays about violating the ADA. But wouldn't that be hilarious if they did? That's just the kind of idiotic thing they would force their students to do.

Stop me before I post again! This site is not healthy for me, so I have to stop myself from visiting it again. Maybe some of this information will help someone else out there.

But its not a diagnosis. At least not a real one. And it sounds like she has a range of challenges that aren't being met. Not sure why you are so dug in there but you are doing her a real disservice.