Signs your child is on the verge of being "Counseled Out" top private

[Anonymous]

My DS is being counseled out of a top private school now. Reading this thread has somewhat helped me to understand. He is the first ouf our family to go to private school so I did not have alot of experience with this environment. He has gone to this school since kindergarten and he is in 8th grade now. He scores very high, 99th percentile, on standardized tests, and the Middle school VP told me he is brilliant. But he has ADHD, and he has difficulty remembering the homework. He does it and forgets to bring it or forgets to click post on google classroom. Or he forgets it has to be done. He does well on the tests but the late and missing homework drag his grades down. His grades are As and Bs with a B- here and there. The teachers don't like that he doodles and fidgets. He is a nerdy, skinny unathletic sweet kid who is not aggressive at all. When he was younger the teachers were annoyed because he would sometimes get up out of his chair and stand behind his desk and would wiggle and jiggle in his chair. He also called out (the correct) answers out of turn. Alternatively he would read a book in class when they were going over material he had already mastered. His hyperactivity is far less pronounced now in middle school. His math is off the charts good but he has organizational issues and his essay writing and grammar needs work. I cannot afford tutors because all of my money goes to pay the school although he needs a writing tutor and an organizational coach. The counseling out started in 6th grade, when he got a C in Mandarin. I was amazed at how they could say he wasn't academically fit for the school because he got a C in Chinese. Granted he only got As in math and the rest of the grades were B+ to B-. I medicated him in 7th grade and his grades did improve to As and Bs. I thought we were out of the woods but then in the first week of 8th grade he was late on 2 homework assignments and the VP of Middle school called me to say he wasn't academically able to manage High School. Again, I was amazed, at how they could say that in the first week of class. I was outraged because i thought, he cannot be the only kid in this entire school that has some B's. I asked specifically if it was a behavioral issue and I was told no. However they did want me to start the medication again, which i have done. The school is 45k a year and I have been paying since K, so I could avoid the hardship of the HS search. I should also say that he turned 5 a week before the school cutoff and so is an actual year younger than many of the other boys who turned 6 in the weeks after K started. Being a year younger as a boy makes a big difference as it makes it harder to compete in sports if you are 6 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than the rest of the boys every year. I sometimes wonder if he really has ADHD or if he is just a really smart 7th grader rather than an immature 8th grader. Anyway, i can see the other side from reading these comments. Not like he ever was physically aggressive but i am sure his inattention and wigglyness was distracting to other kids and annoying to teachers. I just didn't want to give him a stimulant when he was young and in the 5th percentile for weight. My feeling when they told me he answered out of turn or stood behind his desk was, "so - he's not perfect. He is smart and nice, so just teach him, that is what i am paying you 45k to do". In 6th grade when they wanted us to leave they said they would suggest some schools for him that would be better but then they never did. Maybe i would have sent him to one - a school for very smart kids with ADHD. What would that look like? Balls to sit on and standing desks and time to stretch after class and every assignment posted online as well as being mentioned in passing during class. When he is frequently bored in class now because the work moves slowly, I wouldnt want to send him to a school where he is with profoundly LD children, yet he does need extra support in certain areas. Apparently the private schools dont want to provide any sort of support at all. Also I cannot afford to contribute more than the annual fee on my salary and i am a single mother so i am not able to come and devote alot of time to support the school. I can see how they would want to squeeze my DS out and replace him with a big donor family with a kid that doesnt need any extra support at all. But i do feel a little bitter. I spent so much over the years, and hoped they might make a commitment to educating my entirely educable child. At least that is the promise they made in K when we enrolled. But it is not the reality.

[Anonymous]

PP, sorry to hear this but it is not the end of the world. The school is not a good fit for your son but there are lots of others that would be great for your son and at which he will get the support he needs and can flourish. He will be fine. One thing about schools, public or private, as parents we have to reassess the environment throughout to ensure it is a good place for our kids. You are trying to make your son fit into a school that you want for him but it may not be the school for him any longer. He is in 8th grade now so you should start looking into HS now while the application and open house season is in full swing. You will find the right HS for him but you must first come to terms with the fact that the current school he is in is no longer a good fit. It is imperative that you be realistic and move forward for your child's sake and best interest. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You joke. But if there's one thing I expect my 30K per year to buy, it is a classroom free of constant disruptions from uncontrollable others.

whose parents are also paying $30,000 per year.

But, they're outnumbered 16 to 1

You are mistaken. There are plenty of dopey kids who exhibit mild to severe antisocial behaviors. What it really comes down to is popularity. What it comes down to is the behaviors of a popular child might be considered mischievous, but endearly, while for another child those same behaviors which may even be a mimic of those of a popular child, will be considered antisocial and intolerable.

I'm the 16 to 1 PP.

I think we are both correct. The relative desirability of the kid in question is a factor, I have no doubt. Can this kid be easily replaced in the next admission cycle with someone just like him -- but without the challenges? If his parents give the school $25,000 every few years ... probably not. Other considerations include URM status and unusual athletic prowess.

All that said ... IF there are enough parents in the Group of 16 cited above who themselves represent something rare-ish and desirable to the school, then I firmly believe their opinion carries more weight. In particular, their opinion as to whether they must "begin to look at options" because their kid's experience is being so negatively affected by the desirable-yet-problematic kid.

It's good that your child is part of the 16 and is not the 1 being singled out. The only problem with your "private schools are selective logic" is that once you've removed the child who is not wanted, you will be left with a 15 to 1 situation. Selecting children for elimination is a morally dubious practice. Selecting children for elimination is a little bit like Sophie's Choice. It's good that your child is currently in the majority; hopefully that will never change. Hopefully, your child will never be chosen to be the 1.

Life is long, perhaps a bit of grace today will be returned to you one day in the form of kindness and understanding when you and yours find yourselves vulnerable and in need of a helping hand.

Can you point out to me where I said my child is in the group of 16 and not the one who may be counseled out?

No. You can't. And, don't shoot the messenger for reporting out accurate, real-life observations of the cesspool that is private school politics in Washington.

NP. A kid who can't or won't behave in school is either making his own problems or is not in a fitting environment. This isn't a situation where someone needs or deserves grace/tolerance because something bad is happening to them or they're going through a hard time. This is a situation where either behavior has consequences or another placement is more appropriate for the student and thus better for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS is being counseled out of a top private school now. Reading this thread has somewhat helped me to understand. He is the first ouf our family to go to private school so I did not have alot of experience with this environment. He has gone to this school since kindergarten and he is in 8th grade now. He scores very high, 99th percentile, on standardized tests, and the Middle school VP told me he is brilliant. But he has ADHD, and he has difficulty remembering the homework. He does it and forgets to bring it or forgets to click post on google classroom. Or he forgets it has to be done. He does well on the tests but the late and missing homework drag his grades down. His grades are As and Bs with a B- here and there. The teachers don't like that he doodles and fidgets. He is a nerdy, skinny unathletic sweet kid who is not aggressive at all. When he was younger the teachers were annoyed because he would sometimes get up out of his chair and stand behind his desk and would wiggle and jiggle in his chair. He also called out (the correct) answers out of turn. Alternatively he would read a book in class when they were going over material he had already mastered. His hyperactivity is far less pronounced now in middle school. His math is off the charts good but he has organizational issues and his essay writing and grammar needs work. I cannot afford tutors because all of my money goes to pay the school although he needs a writing tutor and an organizational coach. The counseling out started in 6th grade, when he got a C in Mandarin. I was amazed at how they could say he wasn't academically fit for the school because he got a C in Chinese. Granted he only got As in math and the rest of the grades were B+ to B-. I medicated him in 7th grade and his grades did improve to As and Bs. I thought we were out of the woods but then in the first week of 8th grade he was late on 2 homework assignments and the VP of Middle school called me to say he wasn't academically able to manage High School. Again, I was amazed, at how they could say that in the first week of class. I was outraged because i thought, he cannot be the only kid in this entire school that has some B's. I asked specifically if it was a behavioral issue and I was told no. However they did want me to start the medication again, which i have done. The school is 45k a year and I have been paying since K, so I could avoid the hardship of the HS search. I should also say that he turned 5 a week before the school cutoff and so is an actual year younger than many of the other boys who turned 6 in the weeks after K started. Being a year younger as a boy makes a big difference as it makes it harder to compete in sports if you are 6 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than the rest of the boys every year. I sometimes wonder if he really has ADHD or if he is just a really smart 7th grader rather than an immature 8th grader. Anyway, i can see the other side from reading these comments. Not like he ever was physically aggressive but i am sure his inattention and wigglyness was distracting to other kids and annoying to teachers. I just didn't want to give him a stimulant when he was young and in the 5th percentile for weight. My feeling when they told me he answered out of turn or stood behind his desk was, "so - he's not perfect. He is smart and nice, so just teach him, that is what i am paying you 45k to do". In 6th grade when they wanted us to leave they said they would suggest some schools for him that would be better but then they never did. Maybe i would have sent him to one - a school for very smart kids with ADHD. What would that look like? Balls to sit on and standing desks and time to stretch after class and every assignment posted online as well as being mentioned in passing during class. When he is frequently bored in class now because the work moves slowly, I wouldnt want to send him to a school where he is with profoundly LD children, yet he does need extra support in certain areas. Apparently the private schools dont want to provide any sort of support at all. Also I cannot afford to contribute more than the annual fee on my salary and i am a single mother so i am not able to come and devote alot of time to support the school. I can see how they would want to squeeze my DS out and replace him with a big donor family with a kid that doesnt need any extra support at all. But i do feel a little bitter. I spent so much over the years, and hoped they might make a commitment to educating my entirely educable child. At least that is the promise they made in K when we enrolled. But it is not the reality.

There is a lot here to address but as a former skinny, smaller, immature, younger-than-the-rest boy, who probably also had issues that required medicine, I suggest you hold him back. Find some other outlet for the fact that he will get bored for a bit and then watch as mastery feeds into confidence and success helps with maturity. Being youngest and maybe smartest is nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is being counseled out of a top private school now. Reading this thread has somewhat helped me to understand. He is the first ouf our family to go to private school so I did not have alot of experience with this environment. He has gone to this school since kindergarten and he is in 8th grade now. He scores very high, 99th percentile, on standardized tests, and the Middle school VP told me he is brilliant. But he has ADHD, and he has difficulty remembering the homework. He does it and forgets to bring it or forgets to click post on google classroom. Or he forgets it has to be done. He does well on the tests but the late and missing homework drag his grades down. His grades are As and Bs with a B- here and there. The teachers don't like that he doodles and fidgets. He is a nerdy, skinny unathletic sweet kid who is not aggressive at all. When he was younger the teachers were annoyed because he would sometimes get up out of his chair and stand behind his desk and would wiggle and jiggle in his chair. He also called out (the correct) answers out of turn. Alternatively he would read a book in class when they were going over material he had already mastered. His hyperactivity is far less pronounced now in middle school. His math is off the charts good but he has organizational issues and his essay writing and grammar needs work. I cannot afford tutors because all of my money goes to pay the school although he needs a writing tutor and an organizational coach. The counseling out started in 6th grade, when he got a C in Mandarin. I was amazed at how they could say he wasn't academically fit for the school because he got a C in Chinese. Granted he only got As in math and the rest of the grades were B+ to B-. I medicated him in 7th grade and his grades did improve to As and Bs. I thought we were out of the woods but then in the first week of 8th grade he was late on 2 homework assignments and the VP of Middle school called me to say he wasn't academically able to manage High School. Again, I was amazed, at how they could say that in the first week of class. I was outraged because i thought, he cannot be the only kid in this entire school that has some B's. I asked specifically if it was a behavioral issue and I was told no. However they did want me to start the medication again, which i have done. The school is 45k a year and I have been paying since K, so I could avoid the hardship of the HS search. I should also say that he turned 5 a week before the school cutoff and so is an actual year younger than many of the other boys who turned 6 in the weeks after K started. Being a year younger as a boy makes a big difference as it makes it harder to compete in sports if you are 6 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than the rest of the boys every year. I sometimes wonder if he really has ADHD or if he is just a really smart 7th grader rather than an immature 8th grader. Anyway, i can see the other side from reading these comments. Not like he ever was physically aggressive but i am sure his inattention and wigglyness was distracting to other kids and annoying to teachers. I just didn't want to give him a stimulant when he was young and in the 5th percentile for weight. My feeling when they told me he answered out of turn or stood behind his desk was, "so - he's not perfect. He is smart and nice, so just teach him, that is what i am paying you 45k to do". In 6th grade when they wanted us to leave they said they would suggest some schools for him that would be better but then they never did. Maybe i would have sent him to one - a school for very smart kids with ADHD. What would that look like? Balls to sit on and standing desks and time to stretch after class and every assignment posted online as well as being mentioned in passing during class. When he is frequently bored in class now because the work moves slowly, I wouldnt want to send him to a school where he is with profoundly LD children, yet he does need extra support in certain areas. Apparently the private schools dont want to provide any sort of support at all. Also I cannot afford to contribute more than the annual fee on my salary and i am a single mother so i am not able to come and devote alot of time to support the school. I can see how they would want to squeeze my DS out and replace him with a big donor family with a kid that doesnt need any extra support at all. But i do feel a little bitter. I spent so much over the years, and hoped they might make a commitment to educating my entirely educable child. At least that is the promise they made in K when we enrolled. But it is not the reality.

There is a lot here to address but as a former skinny, smaller, immature, younger-than-the-rest boy, who probably also had issues that required medicine, I suggest you hold him back. Find some other outlet for the fact that he will get bored for a bit and then watch as mastery feeds into confidence and success helps with maturity. Being youngest and maybe smartest is nightmare.

I would switch him to a public school and hold him back. take some of the $45K you are spending on tuition and use it to pay for a house in a great school district (if you don't already live in one). it's sad that you are going through this. Sounds like your kid will turn out just fine but public schools (where there are more supports, you will have some $$ left for add'l support, and where sports are less of a prime focus) will be a better fit anyway.

[Anonymous]

So sorry you and your child are going through this. I really hope you find a good place for your son. Looking at this from another point of few, if this private is super academic, the school may genuinely be concerned that their high school will be tramatic for your child. The pressure in high school at these places is really tough and can take a toll on kids without a very strong self image. It's survival of the fitest.. not the most intelligent. Your son sounds brilliant, but high school at Sidwell, for example, is a lot about organization, time management, writing and ability to discuss complex issues in a small class. It's extremely stressful and exhausting. The kids literally don't have time to sleep 8 hours! Maybe Burke, Blythe Templeton or Field would be a better fit. I know you are upset, but please ask your current school for help with an outplacement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the ones who pay 30k feel that their kid should get away with murder.

This is eerily reminiscent.

You two have been weened on too many teen movies and horror movies and fictionalized history movies. And you are ASSUMING that the children not asked to come back are not full pay. Guess again. And stop trying to make everything about you- know- what and just take the post at face value for once. You embarass yourselves suggesting that anyone feels their kid should getvaway with murder. On the contrary, the posters are obiviously attentive to and concerned with behaviour all around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This subject reminded me of a frightening trend I have now seen at the schools discussed regularly on this site: African-American boys being counseled out. Boys seem to struggle with sitting with their hands in their lap as it is, add sports and competition and a natural tendency to need to move and they are set-up for little room to grow. This matched with overly effected parents and, in some cases, teachers who don't have a handle on how to work with boys. I don't know why, but the first to be moved out are the AA boys. I have seen six in early grades over three schools in the past four years. That's an alarming rate.

Unless you are in the business, how could you possibly know if AA are tsrgeted first? As the mother of a minority student, what an unbelievable conspiracy theorist you are. Wake up. The folks here complaining are of all colors, sizes, shapes. It has had universal effect. Why must you jump in to say it has affected anyone more than anyone else? If you believe that is true, whether or not you have proof, what do you want to do about it?

[Anonymous]

Lots of good advice in this thread. I find it hard to believe that it's just academic though when your DC is getting good to OK grades. My DC's class had one kid supposedly counseled out -- I don't know what his grades were like but he was disruptive in class, such that my DC complained all the time how hard it was having that kid in the class. I'd guess the kid was ADHD but unfortunately not on meds. I may have missed it but schools really want kids who will be part of the community -- participate in sports, clubs, theater, student gov't, etc. I'd expect it would be much less likely for a kid to be asked to leave if the kid was active.

[Anonymous]

Most private gen ed schools want kids they don't have to accommodate because they don't want to spend the money to do it. Of course, legally, they don't have to but they will use other reasons to counsel out or not admit these kids in the first place. But they also could easily do it if these kids were important to them. But they're not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of good advice in this thread. I find it hard to believe that it's just academic though when your DC is getting good to OK grades. My DC's class had one kid supposedly counseled out -- I don't know what his grades were like but he was disruptive in class, such that my DC complained all the time how hard it was having that kid in the class. I'd guess the kid was ADHD but unfortunately not on meds. I may have missed it but schools really want kids who will be part of the community -- participate in sports, clubs, theater, student gov't, etc. I'd expect it would be much less likely for a kid to be asked to leave if the kid was active.

You just disprove your conclusion. You conclude that they want kids part of the activities but you prsent a case of a disruptive child affecting other's ability to learn. What don't you get? If they cannot leatn or are keeping others from learning....... nothing about not participating in activities.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Yes, my daughter was in a progressive school. I thought they'd be more tolerant, not less. Go figure.
As you can see from the comments above, once your child has been counseled out, people make a lot of assumptions: that your child must be seriously disabled, that he or she had serious, unmanageable behavioral issues and disrupted the entire class, that you were an obnoxious, aggressive, helicopter parent, all of which just makes the experience of being counseled out all the more damaging. And if it happens at a progressive school...well, if such a warm, wonderful, welcoming place would do that to your child, then you all must be super f***ed up. If you try to explain how it all happened, it sounds so preposterous, that people think you're a liar in addition to all of the above.
Again, wouldn't it be nice if the schools had to make their "counseling out" rates public?[/quote]


Thank you for your posts! My husband and I felt like we were going crazy and couldn't find anything online about, "how things are done at independent schools," until we came across this thread. It's a subject that can't be discussed with other parents, and certainly not brought to the attention of teachers and administrators. We live in close proximity to quite a few independent schools, some better than others, but it's a small world. We started looking into other schools, and are learning the hard way that ,"you'll never work in this town again" applies to elementary-aged children as well! Although it would be unethical to talk amongst themselves, the schools most certainly do. Thanks again and hope you had some luck. Btw, I can tell the person giving you a hard time is most likely a head of school or other administrator with a vested interest. Best of luck!

[Anonymous]

I am sorry about this! The most important thing is that your son be at a school where he feels like he can be himself and that he is accepted and loved for who he is - wiggles and all! If he’s wiggling and he needs to get up and about there are schools that handle that I have heard such as Landon or another boys’ School where sports is required as part of the daily schedule. Best of luck to you and your son!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is being counseled out of a top private school now. Reading this thread has somewhat helped me to understand. He is the first ouf our family to go to private school so I did not have alot of experience with this environment. He has gone to this school since kindergarten and he is in 8th grade now. He scores very high, 99th percentile, on standardized tests, and the Middle school VP told me he is brilliant. But he has ADHD, and he has difficulty remembering the homework. He does it and forgets to bring it or forgets to click post on google classroom. Or he forgets it has to be done. He does well on the tests but the late and missing homework drag his grades down. His grades are As and Bs with a B- here and there. The teachers don't like that he doodles and fidgets. He is a nerdy, skinny unathletic sweet kid who is not aggressive at all. When he was younger the teachers were annoyed because he would sometimes get up out of his chair and stand behind his desk and would wiggle and jiggle in his chair. He also called out (the correct) answers out of turn. Alternatively he would read a book in class when they were going over material he had already mastered. His hyperactivity is far less pronounced now in middle school. His math is off the charts good but he has organizational issues and his essay writing and grammar needs work. I cannot afford tutors because all of my money goes to pay the school although he needs a writing tutor and an organizational coach. The counseling out started in 6th grade, when he got a C in Mandarin. I was amazed at how they could say he wasn't academically fit for the school because he got a C in Chinese. Granted he only got As in math and the rest of the grades were B+ to B-. I medicated him in 7th grade and his grades did improve to As and Bs. I thought we were out of the woods but then in the first week of 8th grade he was late on 2 homework assignments and the VP of Middle school called me to say he wasn't academically able to manage High School. Again, I was amazed, at how they could say that in the first week of class. I was outraged because i thought, he cannot be the only kid in this entire school that has some B's. I asked specifically if it was a behavioral issue and I was told no. However they did want me to start the medication again, which i have done. The school is 45k a year and I have been paying since K, so I could avoid the hardship of the HS search. I should also say that he turned 5 a week before the school cutoff and so is an actual year younger than many of the other boys who turned 6 in the weeks after K started. Being a year younger as a boy makes a big difference as it makes it harder to compete in sports if you are 6 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than the rest of the boys every year. I sometimes wonder if he really has ADHD or if he is just a really smart 7th grader rather than an immature 8th grader. Anyway, i can see the other side from reading these comments. Not like he ever was physically aggressive but i am sure his inattention and wigglyness was distracting to other kids and annoying to teachers. I just didn't want to give him a stimulant when he was young and in the 5th percentile for weight. My feeling when they told me he answered out of turn or stood behind his desk was, "so - he's not perfect. He is smart and nice, so just teach him, that is what i am paying you 45k to do". In 6th grade when they wanted us to leave they said they would suggest some schools for him that would be better but then they never did. Maybe i would have sent him to one - a school for very smart kids with ADHD. What would that look like? Balls to sit on and standing desks and time to stretch after class and every assignment posted online as well as being mentioned in passing during class. When he is frequently bored in class now because the work moves slowly, I wouldnt want to send him to a school where he is with profoundly LD children, yet he does need extra support in certain areas. Apparently the private schools dont want to provide any sort of support at all. Also I cannot afford to contribute more than the annual fee on my salary and i am a single mother so i am not able to come and devote alot of time to support the school. I can see how they would want to squeeze my DS out and replace him with a big donor family with a kid that doesnt need any extra support at all. But i do feel a little bitter. I spent so much over the years, and hoped they might make a commitment to educating my entirely educable child. At least that is the promise they made in K when we enrolled. But it is not the reality.

There is a lot here to address but as a former skinny, smaller, immature, younger-than-the-rest boy, who probably also had issues that required medicine, I suggest you hold him back. Find some other outlet for the fact that he will get bored for a bit and then watch as mastery feeds into confidence and success helps with maturity. Being youngest and maybe smartest is nightmare.

I would switch him to a public school and hold him back. take some of the $45K you are spending on tuition and use it to pay for a house in a great school district (if you don't already live in one). it's sad that you are going through this. Sounds like your kid will turn out just fine but public schools (where there are more supports, you will have some $$ left for add'l support, and where sports are less of a prime focus) will be a better fit anyway.

Or try St. Andrews.

[Anonymous]

Consider St Anselms Abbey and Flint Hill also.

PP-I could have written your post. The world is just not kind to kids with ADHD, esp the private school world. Most privates just won’t embrace the fact that with true brilliance comes issues (at least most of the time).

We have had a lot of success in public school with accommodations, so that is not a bad idea either.