Signs your child is on the verge of being "Counseled Out" top private

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realize this is an old thread, but there are so many interesting comments about this, I thought I'd add my experience:
Six weeks into starting at a highly, highly regarded private school, my first grader began the process of being counseled out. She has SPD but is in no way disruptive or mean. She has been bullied all year. (Called "Slowy," told by another student that if she didn't do he asked, the teacher would spank her--one day she told me the boys used her face as a target to kick a ball into).
Funny, the kids that bullied my daughter are all being asked back.
I disagree with the notion that you give up 100% of your rights when you write a tuition check. Kids do have rights, even in private school. Title III of the ADA protects disabled kids in all but parochial schools. The disabilities include ADHD, SPD, learning differences, etc. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! Most parents just move on, but how will that change anything? These people are getting paid enough money, they should be a little more invested in their students. Can my daughter be replaced with an easier kid without a disability? Of course! In a heart beat. But it's wrong. I'd think a school administration, which serves as a role model for kids, should know this!
Of course I don't want my daughter to continue at the school, and I don't want to sue, because I'm not after money, but I am thinking of...reporting them to the Office of Civil Rights at the Department of Justice (they enforce the ADA).

With all due respect to you and your child, I would guess that the Civil Rights Division has more pressing matters on its docket than getting involved in an intramural dispute based on an ADHD diagnosis at a selective private -- excuse me, "highly, highly regarded private" -- school.

[Anonymous]

NP here, only read the first few pages, but...
Why is it so controversial to say that if a child's behavior consistently does not meet minimum standards at a private institution then the child will not be permitted to return?

Every child, even those struggling with behavior challenges, has a right to an education, but not everyone has a right to an education at a specific private school.

I don't care whether the family is full-pay or full-scholarship, whether the child's skin is one color or another, who daddy/mom/grandparent/etc is, or any other factor mentioned on this thread -- if a child consistently cannot meet age and grade appropriate behavior standards as defined by the school, then the child should not be permitted to continue to attend.

If my child's behavior is inappropriate in a public place and correcting the behavior hasn't worked, we leave and go home because she has lost the privilege to be wherever we were since I won't allow her to infringe on others' rights. This is what most people say responsible parents should do, so why is the standard different for a school parents are paying to provide the best possible education for their children?

Clearly my view is not in line with the consensus on DCUM, so could someone please help me understand what I'm missing in thinking this way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I realize this is an old thread, but there are so many interesting comments about this, I thought I'd add my experience:
Six weeks into starting at a highly, highly regarded private school, my first grader began the process of being counseled out. She has SPD but is in no way disruptive or mean. She has been bullied all year. (Called "Slowy," told by another student that if she didn't do he asked, the teacher would spank her--one day she told me the boys used her face as a target to kick a ball into).
Funny, the kids that bullied my daughter are all being asked back.
I disagree with the notion that you give up 100% of your rights when you write a tuition check. Kids do have rights, even in private school. Title III of the ADA protects disabled kids in all but parochial schools. The disabilities include ADHD, SPD, learning differences, etc. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! Most parents just move on, but how will that change anything? These people are getting paid enough money, they should be a little more invested in their students. Can my daughter be replaced with an easier kid without a disability? Of course! In a heart beat. But it's wrong. I'd think a school administration, which serves as a role model for kids, should know this!
Of course I don't want my daughter to continue at the school, and I don't want to sue, because I'm not after money, but I am thinking of...reporting them to the Office of Civil Rights at the Department of Justice (they enforce the ADA).

With all due respect to you and your child, I would guess that the Civil Rights Division has more pressing matters on its docket than getting involved in an intramural dispute based on an ADHD diagnosis at a selective private -- excuse me, "highly, highly regarded private" -- school.

PP's DD doesn't have ADHD she has SPD. The former is a real, medical diagnosis. The latter is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I realize this is an old thread, but there are so many interesting comments about this, I thought I'd add my experience:
Six weeks into starting at a highly, highly regarded private school, my first grader began the process of being counseled out. She has SPD but is in no way disruptive or mean. She has been bullied all year. (Called "Slowy," told by another student that if she didn't do he asked, the teacher would spank her--one day she told me the boys used her face as a target to kick a ball into).
Funny, the kids that bullied my daughter are all being asked back.
I disagree with the notion that you give up 100% of your rights when you write a tuition check. Kids do have rights, even in private school. Title III of the ADA protects disabled kids in all but parochial schools. The disabilities include ADHD, SPD, learning differences, etc. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! Most parents just move on, but how will that change anything? These people are getting paid enough money, they should be a little more invested in their students. Can my daughter be replaced with an easier kid without a disability? Of course! In a heart beat. But it's wrong. I'd think a school administration, which serves as a role model for kids, should know this!
Of course I don't want my daughter to continue at the school, and I don't want to sue, because I'm not after money, but I am thinking of...reporting them to the Office of Civil Rights at the Department of Justice (they enforce the ADA).

With all due respect to you and your child, I would guess that the Civil Rights Division has more pressing matters on its docket than getting involved in an intramural dispute based on an ADHD diagnosis at a selective private -- excuse me, "highly, highly regarded private" -- school.

PP's DD doesn't have ADHD she has SPD. The former is a real, medical diagnosis. The latter is not.

SPD is an indicator for ADHD or autism. It's not a diagnosis on its own.

[Anonymous]

I'm 6:54 and agree that SPD is often a sign of an ASD or ADHD. Its a symptom. Sensory issues can exist in isolation and sometimes those kids don't have a diagnosis. But more often than not its a major distraction given by an OT (or a "specialized" OT like Lynn Balzer-Martin) and accepted by parents as a soft landing. Then later they find out that their child has an ASD or ADHD and they've lost year's of possible interventions. The worst part is that they go to school and feel stupid or become social outcasts and they haven't had the right supports and they don't have knowledge about themselves. I have seen this over and over again. Any parent who is told their child has SPD should get a global evaluation from a developmental pediatrician. Parents like PP who refuse to question the SPD "diagnosis" are simply afraid of the real medical diagnoses.

[Anonymous]

I don't know much about being counseled out but I can say that I don't think teachers at our big 3 let the parents of kids that are bullying know. Parents complain about social bullying of a few boys but the teachers and school never tell the parents of the bully so the behavior seems to continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I realize this is an old thread, but there are so many interesting comments about this, I thought I'd add my experience:
Six weeks into starting at a highly, highly regarded private school, my first grader began the process of being counseled out. She has SPD but is in no way disruptive or mean. She has been bullied all year. (Called "Slowy," told by another student that if she didn't do he asked, the teacher would spank her--one day she told me the boys used her face as a target to kick a ball into).
Funny, the kids that bullied my daughter are all being asked back.
I disagree with the notion that you give up 100% of your rights when you write a tuition check. Kids do have rights, even in private school. Title III of the ADA protects disabled kids in all but parochial schools. The disabilities include ADHD, SPD, learning differences, etc. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! Most parents just move on, but how will that change anything? These people are getting paid enough money, they should be a little more invested in their students. Can my daughter be replaced with an easier kid without a disability? Of course! In a heart beat. But it's wrong. I'd think a school administration, which serves as a role model for kids, should know this!
Of course I don't want my daughter to continue at the school, and I don't want to sue, because I'm not after money, but I am thinking of...reporting them to the Office of Civil Rights at the Department of Justice (they enforce the ADA).

With all due respect to you and your child, I would guess that the Civil Rights Division has more pressing matters on its docket than getting involved in an intramural dispute based on an ADHD diagnosis at a selective private -- excuse me, "highly, highly regarded private" -- school.

PP's DD doesn't have ADHD she has SPD. The former is a real, medical diagnosis. The latter is not.

That's still not the point. Please look outside the bubble and ask yourself how this matter -- involving high-priced, exclusive private schools largely used by the upper 2 or 3 percent -- has a broad public policy impact among competing enforcement matters.

[Anonymous]

My SPD daughter has had an audiological evaluation, a full psycho-educational evaluation, and has met with a psychiatrist and a speech language pathologist. She does not meet the diagnostic criteria for autism, a learning difference, ADHD, or a language disorder.
She's meeting now with yet another psychologist.
She does have hypotonia and is sensitive to clothing and loud sounds.
A lot of negative assumptions are being made out me (that I'm in denial and not committed to understanding my daughter's needs) and about my daughter (that she must have a whole host of problems I'm not mentioning) based on the fact that she's being counseled out, which, as I said before, makes the experience of being counseled out that much more damaging.
And again, we are looking for other schools. She may very well have to go to public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My SPD daughter has had an audiological evaluation, a full psycho-educational evaluation, and has met with a psychiatrist and a speech language pathologist. She does not meet the diagnostic criteria for autism, a learning difference, ADHD, or a language disorder.
She's meeting now with yet another psychologist.
She does have hypotonia and is sensitive to clothing and loud sounds.
A lot of negative assumptions are being made out me (that I'm in denial and not committed to understanding my daughter's needs) and about my daughter (that she must have a whole host of problems I'm not mentioning) based on the fact that she's being counseled out, which, as I said before, makes the experience of being counseled out that much more damaging.
And again, we are looking for other schools. She may very well have to go to public.

Good luck trying to get a 504 accommodations or an IEP at a public school with a SPD diagnosis. You're going to find private schools and insurance companies aren't the only ones who think SPD is bunk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, my daughter was in a progressive school. I thought they'd be more tolerant, not less. Go figure.
As you can see from the comments above, once your child has been counseled out, people make a lot of assumptions: that your child must be seriously disabled, that he or she had serious, unmanageable behavioral issues and disrupted the entire class, that you were an obnoxious, aggressive, helicopter parent, all of which just makes the experience of being counseled out all the more damaging. And if it happens at a progressive school...well, if such a warm, wonderful, welcoming place would do that to your child, then you all must be super f***ed up. If you try to explain how it all happened, it sounds so preposterous, that people think you're a liar in addition to all of the above.
Again, wouldn't it be nice if the schools had to make their "counseling out" rates public?

I think to understand this fully you have to keep in mind that schools council out for two reasons:

1) the pressure from teachers who have to use 10X as much energy to try to reach the kid and keep them on track at the expense of the rest of the class

2) the pressure from other parents in the class/ school who really resent the kid that may be acting badly toars their child or dissrupting the class so much that it is affecting their child's learning . You know , the " we're paying $30K attitude"

So, to get kicked out you pretty much have had to alienate your child's teacher, the other kids in the class , and most of the other parents before the Head gives you the talk…In other words, its pretty bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Title III of the ADA applies to public accommodations, which includes private schools. The only schools that are ADA exempt are, ironically, parochial schools. If you scroll down on the links I posted you'll see there are three laws that protect kids with disabilities (mental or physical): IDEA applies to public schools, Section 504 applies to public and private schools that receive federal aid, and Title III of the ADA, applies to public accommodations, including non-religious private schools.
So, if a kid is otherwise qualified to be at the school (passed admissions requirements, is ok academically) and can be reasonably accommodated, a non-religious private school cannot remove a child for a disability.
Funny, we paid full tuition and got counseled out anyway. A friend in a similar situation just made a $25k donation to the school and suddenly everything's right again. How is that any different than extorting extra money out of families with disabled kids? And no, it is not legal to charge disabled kids extra.

good lord, what's next ? As a society we have taken this " special learning needs" flavor of the decade to the self -indulgent extreme. The schools should simply put a waiver in every contract " X school reserves the right not to renew soley at its own discretion." Your child has a right to an education, they dont have a right to a "private school" education. Insanity.

[Anonymous]

I have a friend whose kid was ADHD and was given the talk about maybe the school not being a good fit for her daughter. I'm pretty sure she gets financial aid too as she would be considered FARMS in public but has wealthy grandparents. I'm 100 percent sure she was given a harder time than a full pay family who donates to the auction etc. She was allowed to stay but got the threat at least twice. The girl is now in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

As a parent spending 35k a year on private school I would be pissed if my kid's classroom was being continually disrupted by one particular kid, even if their special needs explained their behavior.

[Anonymous]

And what about the kid who's quiet, who's doing fine academically with minimal supports, but is physically slower than the rest and gets picked on?
What about the parents who spend $35K on their child's education to have him or her counseled out because they just don't fit a mould? I knew a kid who was counseled out because he didn't like sports.
As evidenced by the comments here, everyone will assume a child that's been counseled out has been all of the above--disruptive to a class, a major drain on resources, etc. Clearly there is a stigma associated with being asked to leave.
Most parents of kids who have been counseled out wouldn't have cared at all if their child hadn't been accepted in the first place. But advocating for your child in private school--yeah, what kind of sick, selfish, deluded person would do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And what about the kid who's quiet, who's doing fine academically with minimal supports, but is physically slower than the rest and gets picked on?
What about the parents who spend $35K on their child's education to have him or her counseled out because they just don't fit a mould? I knew a kid who was counseled out because he didn't like sports.
As evidenced by the comments here, everyone will assume a child that's been counseled out has been all of the above--disruptive to a class, a major drain on resources, etc. Clearly there is a stigma associated with being asked to leave.
Most parents of kids who have been counseled out wouldn't have cared at all if their child hadn't been accepted in the first place. But advocating for your child in private school--yeah, what kind of sick, selfish, deluded person would do that?

You want to send your kid to a selective school, then you can't start whining about the selection. Sometimes your child is not right for the school - whether they are too stupid, too disruptive, too lethargic, whatever.

People want to send their kids to a school for the elite? Fine, but quit bitching if your kid turns out not to be in the elite. That is the world you have chosen for them.