Med student allegedly inappropriate with female patient and commits suicide after disciplinary action

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:wtf the school has nothing to do with their son being a pervert and predator.

They're Brahmins. They think their son can do no wrong. On top of it, they're from a culture that treats women like dogs. Unsurprising.

Bingo. As if some hot nurse just set out to ruin their son after a routine STD examination.

How do you know what she looks like?

I mean, we don't know if she was hot, but the framing here is gonna be that she was some western whore tempting their son with her instagram pics of spring break and sorority rush.

That's really neither here nor there. The parents are suing TT for handling this all badly. from the very late night email letting him know this was an issue, at time when the crisis center was closed. The long delay for the "apology" and earnest promise to never to this again, the lack of due process, presumption of guilt, etc. Whether or not the patient was a 6 or a 10 is irrelevant.

This falls flat. It appears the campus crisis center has a 24/7 hotline he could have called (a resource he would have known about as a volunteer). It also appears the crisis center opened Tuesday at 8 a.m., hours before be purchased the firearm.

Monday, July 28: 10 p.m., in bed with girlfriend, restless and couldn’t fall asleep.
Monday, July 28: 11:36 p.m, admin email received.
Tuesday, July 29: 10:27 a.m., purchased a gun.
Tuesday, July 29, 2 p.m., crossed state lines, put on his white coat, and taken his own life.

Is there such a thing as a campus crisis center being open 24/7 fully staffed with psychologists and therapists? I highly doubt it.

He says he went and they told him to come back the next day. He killed himself. Do you think he wasn’t in some kind of distress?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I found it odd that she said he DMd her but provided no screenshots and said she couldn't because he blocked her? Hm.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah- I don’t believe her version. He said he blocked her on Instagram. Why would she give him her Instagram info anyway if he was making her uncomfortable?

So you believe she made up the whole instagram thing from thin air? That is preposterous.

Unfortunately for him, he apparently didn't know the nurse patient didn't have screenshots or proof, because he confessed there was instagram engagement. It's just that he spun it as initiated by her.

Do you also believe he realized merely following her was wrong or did the pending follow request (and note?) linger (i.e. ignored by her) and he regretted what he wrote?

You do also realize if you have someone's name - like say they were your patient an hour ago! - you can find them in two seconds by searching said name on instagram? She didn't have to give him any instagram "info." That is his version.

All in all his story doesn't quite add up. And if and when you're busted serially lying from the outset of such an academic investigation, that's when they can throw the book at you.

Her account on page two of that file in the article makes zero mention she gave him her instagram handle. She claims he tried to follow her "very soon" after she left the clinic. And reading between the lines, during her examination, her "nervousness" and looking back and forth at him and the female NP was sounds like a meek girl using non-verbal communication to get the NP to tell the creep to leave the room. You ask for a female to perform your pap, yet the creepy male stays in the room to watch. How mortifying.

The NP gave him an "exceeds expectations" rating for the day.

NP wasn't privy to the allegedly creepy dialogue before she entered the room. Nor him following the patient on instagram right after she left.

And at the end of the day, NPs are box checking and are never going to rock the boat and get tied up in some disciplinary hearing drama.

I also find it really unprofessional that a girl patient can request a female professional and the default isn't for the male to leave the room. The NP let him lurk in there, then asked the girl in front of him if he could stay. That's an unbelievably awkward position to be in. The default should be the guy has to leave the room first, then the female NP could ask if the patient minds if he re-enters to observe.

Pp claims the patient was using non verbal communication to signal to the nurse. Which is some kind of fabrication.

[Anonymous]

He had a girlfriend but was flirting with the NP? I assume the gf didn't know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He had a girlfriend but was flirting with the NP? I assume the gf didn't know?

Allegedly. This was a doctor in training. But the training doesn’t seem to allow room for any mistakes and demands perfection.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The psychotic bloodlust in this thread is horrific.

Believe all women sure didn't last last long.

You can believe her without upending his career before an investigation.

His career wasn't upended, they hadn't even had the hearing yet.

Doctors are treated with kid gloves throughout their careers, especially when facing disciplinary actions. His career was not ending and his response shows he was mentally unstable.

His career was ending. If he can't finish then he can't graduate. They told him to stop going. Then he reached out for help and there was none. This was all handled very badly.

His career was not ending. All he needed to do, according to the university, was to attend the meeting, apologize, and present a plan for how this would never happen again. The bar couldn’t be much lower.

That's not what it says. He needed to attend his clinical rotation every day, they told him to stop going, during this time.

That’s exactly what it says. He couldn’t agent clinical rotations until the meeting, which was in 18 days. At the meeting he was expected to demonstrate remorse and present a plan to keep this from happening again.

This is what it says.
"Duggal was to present to the Committee of Student Grading and Promotion (GPC) in 18 days and couldn’t attend clinical rotations until then. As a third-year student, almost every day required clinical rotations."

How do you propose he "make this up" after the fact? Perhaps he could have just had monitored rotations so that he wasn't alone with a patient. If a student kills themselves over this perhaps there might be a better way? Do they really want blood on their hands?

He can make them up in whatever way exists for any other student who is forced to miss clinical rotations due to illness, incapacitation, or familial obligations. Surely you understand that there is a system in place to deal with situations where students miss rotations, right?

Explain it in full detail. How one can miss that much and graduate on time or not have to repeat it.

https://www.elpaso.ttuhsc.edu/som/ome/CEPC/_documents/Common_clerkship_policies_AY_2022-2023_Clean_for_Website-April_2022.pdf

See pages 2-3. There's literally a written policy for dealing with extended absences from clinical rotations.

The consequences are severe for missing that much time. He would be effed.

If a student is absent more than 6 days per block or 12 days during third year (including excused
absences), it will be reviewed by the associate dean for student affairs. Excessive absences could be a
violation of the Student Code of Conduct and may be forwarded to the Grading and Promotions
Committee.

Your contention was that his career was over and that he would be unable to graduate. I showed you a policy from his university that explains exactly how students who are forced to miss time during clinical rotations can still graduate and have a career.

You keep moving the goal posts because you're wrong and you know it.

You have no idea what you're talking about. It will delay the residency application and just a cascade of problems.

Not the same as his career being over.

It basically is though. This was career ending and he knew it and killed himself.

He was just starting his third year. Residency applications are more than a year away.

When do you think he will be making up this rotation?

READ THE POLICY LINKED ABOVE IT ANSWERS THIS QUESTION

I did. We will have to agree to disagree that this was no big thang.

No one ever said that. I said it wasn’t career ending.

You said that, but that doesn't make it true.

Why even have a makeup policy? If missing 18 days at the beginning of the third year makes it impossible for a student to graduate or get a job, why not just immediately expel any student who misses that much time?

Maybe they would. Or maybe they could have just expedited the case and reviewed it in 2 days instead of dragging it out unnecessarily.

You have no idea why the meeting was scheduled for 18 days later. You’re in no position to say it was unnecessary.

Sounds like bureaucratic BS. They can and should be able to move quickly.

I assume everyone involved is on extremely tight schedules and that meeting date is scheduled long in advance.

That’s unacceptable! I demand that every busy professional on that panel needs to drop everything immediately to attend to the pressing matter of this one guy and his inappropriate behavior.
- this guy’s parents, probably

I bet the school settles with them and gives them a payout.

I hope not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found it odd that she said he DMd her but provided no screenshots and said she couldn't because he blocked her? Hm.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah- I don’t believe her version. He said he blocked her on Instagram. Why would she give him her Instagram info anyway if he was making her uncomfortable?

So you believe she made up the whole instagram thing from thin air? That is preposterous.

Unfortunately for him, he apparently didn't know the nurse patient didn't have screenshots or proof, because he confessed there was instagram engagement. It's just that he spun it as initiated by her.

Do you also believe he realized merely following her was wrong or did the pending follow request (and note?) linger (i.e. ignored by her) and he regretted what he wrote?

You do also realize if you have someone's name - like say they were your patient an hour ago! - you can find them in two seconds by searching said name on instagram? She didn't have to give him any instagram "info." That is his version.

All in all his story doesn't quite add up. And if and when you're busted serially lying from the outset of such an academic investigation, that's when they can throw the book at you.

Her account on page two of that file in the article makes zero mention she gave him her instagram handle. She claims he tried to follow her "very soon" after she left the clinic. And reading between the lines, during her examination, her "nervousness" and looking back and forth at him and the female NP was sounds like a meek girl using non-verbal communication to get the NP to tell the creep to leave the room. You ask for a female to perform your pap, yet the creepy male stays in the room to watch. How mortifying.

The NP gave him an "exceeds expectations" rating for the day.

NP wasn't privy to the allegedly creepy dialogue before she entered the room. Nor him following the patient on instagram right after she left.

And at the end of the day, NPs are box checking and are never going to rock the boat and get tied up in some disciplinary hearing drama.

I also find it really unprofessional that a girl patient can request a female professional and the default isn't for the male to leave the room. The NP let him lurk in there, then asked the girl in front of him if he could stay. That's an unbelievably awkward position to be in. The default should be the guy has to leave the room first, then the female NP could ask if the patient minds if he re-enters to observe.

Pp claims the patient was using non verbal communication to signal to the nurse. Which is some kind of fabrication.

On page 1 of the embedded file at this link, he allegedly asked her if her boyfriend would take issue if he performed pelvic exam, she requested female NP for exam. From his POV, right before procedure/exam, patient was very "nervous" looking back and forth at him and female NP. To me, that sounds like a non-verbal ummmm..... why is he still in here for this? Then the NP asks patient he can leave if you want or do you mind if he stays for training? That should be asked 1 on 1, not while he's standing there in the room still.

https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/texas-tech-medical-student-dies-after-seeking-mental-health-help/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wtf the school has nothing to do with their son being a pervert and predator.

They're Brahmins. They think their son can do no wrong. On top of it, they're from a culture that treats women like dogs. Unsurprising.

Bingo. As if some hot nurse just set out to ruin their son after a routine STD examination.

How do you know what she looks like?

I mean, we don't know if she was hot, but the framing here is gonna be that she was some western whore tempting their son with her instagram pics of spring break and sorority rush.

That's really neither here nor there. The parents are suing TT for handling this all badly. from the very late night email letting him know this was an issue, at time when the crisis center was closed. The long delay for the "apology" and earnest promise to never to this again, the lack of due process, presumption of guilt, etc. Whether or not the patient was a 6 or a 10 is irrelevant.

This falls flat. It appears the campus crisis center has a 24/7 hotline he could have called (a resource he would have known about as a volunteer). It also appears the crisis center opened Tuesday at 8 a.m., hours before be purchased the firearm.

Monday, July 28: 10 p.m., in bed with girlfriend, restless and couldn’t fall asleep.
Monday, July 28: 11:36 p.m, admin email received.
Tuesday, July 29: 10:27 a.m., purchased a gun.
Tuesday, July 29, 2 p.m., crossed state lines, put on his white coat, and taken his own life.

Is there such a thing as a campus crisis center being open 24/7 fully staffed with psychologists and therapists? I highly doubt it.

He says he went and they told him to come back the next day. He killed himself. Do you think he wasn’t in some kind of distress?

The email from the therapist is sent at 6:01 p.m., which is after the clinic had closed (at 5pm?). Sounds like a therapist going above and beyond outside of work hours. Therapist also asks if he needs help in the meantime (i.e. from now until the clinic re-opens in the morning?), "please let me know so I can assist."

I'd bet anything that therapist will take the trauma from this to their grave.

Expecting 24/7 on-call therapists for any student who wants to see one is not economically possible. Public university therapists are spread sooooooo thin, it's really not a substitute for private health care provider.

[Anonymous]

She had a screenshot of the follow request, just not the alleged messages, right? And he confessed to trying to follow her. The follow request of an OGBYN patient in itself is a professional violation. End of story.

His version of events doesn't make a lot of sense and likely downplayed the creepiness. Did he block her or deactivate his account? Why not just merely tap cancel on the follow request? Based on the rest of their encounter, I think it’s very unlikely that she would’ve spontaneously given him her instagram handle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I reading this right, the victim is herself a young RN?!

You all think a licensed nurse made all of this up? It shows how next-level creepy and unprofessional he was for her to immediately make a complaint. Other patients wouldn't know how to complain and would probably just want to put it behind them.

Yup. In my early 20s I volunteered at a free clinic as a translator. A medical student asked inappropriate invasive questions to a patient. I never volunteered there again. Even for a "bystander" it was an unpleasant situation.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the parents' lawsuit. The son was not a minor child, he was a 24 year old grown ass man.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't be surprised if he was going to be expelled. A university can't risk losing their rotation site and a hospital system doesn't want to be sued or have their reputation destroyed by some pervert physician after a credible young nurse victim goes to local media. He should have lawyered up immediately because it reads like he put a lot of damning evidence against himself into the record. Anything you say can and will be used against you...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She had a screenshot of the follow request, just not the alleged messages, right? And he confessed to trying to follow her. The follow request of an OGBYN patient in itself is a professional violation. End of story.

His version of events doesn't make a lot of sense and likely downplayed the creepiness. Did he block her or deactivate his account? Why not just merely tap cancel on the follow request? Based on the rest of their encounter, I think it’s very unlikely that she would’ve spontaneously given him her instagram handle.

He deleted the follow after rethinking it. It’s not like they told him not to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the parents' lawsuit. The son was not a minor child, he was a 24 year old grown ass man.

It’s a wrongful death. Who else would file it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wtf the school has nothing to do with their son being a pervert and predator.

They're Brahmins. They think their son can do no wrong. On top of it, they're from a culture that treats women like dogs. Unsurprising.

Bingo. As if some hot nurse just set out to ruin their son after a routine STD examination.

How do you know what she looks like?

I mean, we don't know if she was hot, but the framing here is gonna be that she was some western whore tempting their son with her instagram pics of spring break and sorority rush.

That's really neither here nor there. The parents are suing TT for handling this all badly. from the very late night email letting him know this was an issue, at time when the crisis center was closed. The long delay for the "apology" and earnest promise to never to this again, the lack of due process, presumption of guilt, etc. Whether or not the patient was a 6 or a 10 is irrelevant.

This falls flat. It appears the campus crisis center has a 24/7 hotline he could have called (a resource he would have known about as a volunteer). It also appears the crisis center opened Tuesday at 8 a.m., hours before be purchased the firearm.

Monday, July 28: 10 p.m., in bed with girlfriend, restless and couldn’t fall asleep.
Monday, July 28: 11:36 p.m, admin email received.
Tuesday, July 29: 10:27 a.m., purchased a gun.
Tuesday, July 29, 2 p.m., crossed state lines, put on his white coat, and taken his own life.

Is there such a thing as a campus crisis center being open 24/7 fully staffed with psychologists and therapists? I highly doubt it.

He says he went and they told him to come back the next day. He killed himself. Do you think he wasn’t in some kind of distress?

The email from the therapist is sent at 6:01 p.m., which is after the clinic had closed (at 5pm?). Sounds like a therapist going above and beyond outside of work hours. Therapist also asks if he needs help in the meantime (i.e. from now until the clinic re-opens in the morning?), "please let me know so I can assist."

I'd bet anything that therapist will take the trauma from this to their grave.

Expecting 24/7 on-call therapists for any student who wants to see one is not economically possible. Public university therapists are spread sooooooo thin, it's really not a substitute for private health care provider.

So it was closed, as they said. I guess if you’re going to have a breakdown better be during regular business hours or you’re SOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if he was going to be expelled. A university can't risk losing their rotation site and a hospital system doesn't want to be sued or have their reputation destroyed by some pervert physician after a credible young nurse victim goes to local media. He should have lawyered up immediately because it reads like he put a lot of damning evidence against himself into the record. Anything you say can and will be used against you...

Because he asked some questions? This seems a little ridiculous.