What rule changes should NVSL do for next year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: we’re a team who had an 8&u DQed because the swimmer wore a sun shirt for the race during an A meet. I was surprised no one caught it before the child swam. I’m sure the child and family didn’t know that the shirts weren’t allowed. I’d support the rule change to address this type of issue. Don’t see how the shirt could be used for any type of advantages.

What situation in your example are you correcting with a change to the rules for 102 clubs and 17,000 swimmers? An 8&U wore a sunshirt (for a 25!) and the coaches, reps, clerk of course, and myriad timers all missed it before the kid swam? How is this any different than a kid showing up with the wrong cap, or prior to this year, the wrong suit?

What do you mean by this? You can wear can wear any suit in NVSL as long as it doesn’t have tie backs.

Until last year you couldn’t wear a suit with a logo of another team. For example you couldn’t wear a Potomac marlins suit in an Nvsl meet

Incorrect. You could always wear another team logo suit (long time rep here) but last year a few officials took it upon themselves to say you could not or misunderstood the rule. So a clairification was added.

DP
Yes, this is true. Thanks. I was going to post the same thing.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule actually applied to caps. And then some eager clerks of clerks took it upon themselves to enforce it for suits too. So they had to clarify the suit policy.

Is monitoring swim attire part of the clerk of course duties? Shouldn’t they be impartial and just seed/checkin the kids and walk them to their lanes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: we’re a team who had an 8&u DQed because the swimmer wore a sun shirt for the race during an A meet. I was surprised no one caught it before the child swam. I’m sure the child and family didn’t know that the shirts weren’t allowed. I’d support the rule change to address this type of issue. Don’t see how the shirt could be used for any type of advantages.

What situation in your example are you correcting with a change to the rules for 102 clubs and 17,000 swimmers? An 8&U wore a sunshirt (for a 25!) and the coaches, reps, clerk of course, and myriad timers all missed it before the kid swam? How is this any different than a kid showing up with the wrong cap, or prior to this year, the wrong suit?

What do you mean by this? You can wear can wear any suit in NVSL as long as it doesn’t have tie backs.

Until last year you couldn’t wear a suit with a logo of another team. For example you couldn’t wear a Potomac marlins suit in an Nvsl meet

Incorrect. You could always wear another team logo suit (long time rep here) but last year a few officials took it upon themselves to say you could not or misunderstood the rule. So a clairification was added.

DP
Yes, this is true. Thanks. I was going to post the same thing.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule actually applied to caps. And then some eager clerks of clerks took it upon themselves to enforce it for suits too. So they had to clarify the suit policy.

Is monitoring swim attire part of the clerk of course duties? Shouldn’t they be impartial and just seed/checkin the kids and walk them to their lanes?

There is no coaching in Clerk, so they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs. We ask our Clerk to check our swimmers for watches, PVS caps, etc. that the coaches or parents may have missed in the chaos. I’m not talking about getting involved in tech suit legality or official judging matters. It has nothing to do with being impartial or reporting to the ref, more just making sure someone didn’t forget to take off their watch or accidentally wore a club swim cap. In doing this, I think some clerks misunderstood the rule and also told kids they couldn’t wear a PVS-branded suit. Hence, the clarifying rule change.

[Anonymous]

“they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs.”

On behalf of a greatful nation, thank u for ur service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs.”

On behalf of a greatful nation, thank u for ur service.

Why go out of your way to be rude to someone. This board is too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: we’re a team who had an 8&u DQed because the swimmer wore a sun shirt for the race during an A meet. I was surprised no one caught it before the child swam. I’m sure the child and family didn’t know that the shirts weren’t allowed. I’d support the rule change to address this type of issue. Don’t see how the shirt could be used for any type of advantages.

What situation in your example are you correcting with a change to the rules for 102 clubs and 17,000 swimmers? An 8&U wore a sunshirt (for a 25!) and the coaches, reps, clerk of course, and myriad timers all missed it before the kid swam? How is this any different than a kid showing up with the wrong cap, or prior to this year, the wrong suit?

What do you mean by this? You can wear can wear any suit in NVSL as long as it doesn’t have tie backs.

Until last year you couldn’t wear a suit with a logo of another team. For example you couldn’t wear a Potomac marlins suit in an Nvsl meet

Incorrect. You could always wear another team logo suit (long time rep here) but last year a few officials took it upon themselves to say you could not or misunderstood the rule. So a clairification was added.

DP
Yes, this is true. Thanks. I was going to post the same thing.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule actually applied to caps. And then some eager clerks of clerks took it upon themselves to enforce it for suits too. So they had to clarify the suit policy.

Is monitoring swim attire part of the clerk of course duties? Shouldn’t they be impartial and just seed/checkin the kids and walk them to their lanes?

There is no coaching in Clerk, so they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs. We ask our Clerk to check our swimmers for watches, PVS caps, etc. that the coaches or parents may have missed in the chaos. I’m not talking about getting involved in tech suit legality or official judging matters. It has nothing to do with being impartial or reporting to the ref, more just making sure someone didn’t forget to take off their watch or accidentally wore a club swim cap. In doing this, I think some clerks misunderstood the rule and also told kids they couldn’t wear a PVS-branded suit. Hence, the clarifying rule change.

Seems like there is disparity across NVSL on this. Our clerk of course did not do this, nor did visiting teams. We’re the team that had a DQ because a 8&u wore the sunshirt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: we’re a team who had an 8&u DQed because the swimmer wore a sun shirt for the race during an A meet. I was surprised no one caught it before the child swam. I’m sure the child and family didn’t know that the shirts weren’t allowed. I’d support the rule change to address this type of issue. Don’t see how the shirt could be used for any type of advantages.

What situation in your example are you correcting with a change to the rules for 102 clubs and 17,000 swimmers? An 8&U wore a sunshirt (for a 25!) and the coaches, reps, clerk of course, and myriad timers all missed it before the kid swam? How is this any different than a kid showing up with the wrong cap, or prior to this year, the wrong suit?

What do you mean by this? You can wear can wear any suit in NVSL as long as it doesn’t have tie backs.

Until last year you couldn’t wear a suit with a logo of another team. For example you couldn’t wear a Potomac marlins suit in an Nvsl meet

Incorrect. You could always wear another team logo suit (long time rep here) but last year a few officials took it upon themselves to say you could not or misunderstood the rule. So a clairification was added.

DP
Yes, this is true. Thanks. I was going to post the same thing.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule actually applied to caps. And then some eager clerks of clerks took it upon themselves to enforce it for suits too. So they had to clarify the suit policy.

Is monitoring swim attire part of the clerk of course duties? Shouldn’t they be impartial and just seed/checkin the kids and walk them to their lanes?

There is no coaching in Clerk, so they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs. We ask our Clerk to check our swimmers for watches, PVS caps, etc. that the coaches or parents may have missed in the chaos. I’m not talking about getting involved in tech suit legality or official judging matters. It has nothing to do with being impartial or reporting to the ref, more just making sure someone didn’t forget to take off their watch or accidentally wore a club swim cap. In doing this, I think some clerks misunderstood the rule and also told kids they couldn’t wear a PVS-branded suit. Hence, the clarifying rule change.

Seems like there is disparity across NVSL on this. Our clerk of course did not do this, nor did visiting teams. We’re the team that had a DQ because a 8&u wore the sunshirt.

I didn’t mean to imply that it’s part of their official duties. Some teams ask their A Meet CoC to look out for watches, wrong caps, etc. and remind swimmers to remove them. That’s all. It’s like a parent yelling “goggles!” to a seven year old whose goggles are still perched on top of his head right before the start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: we’re a team who had an 8&u DQed because the swimmer wore a sun shirt for the race during an A meet. I was surprised no one caught it before the child swam. I’m sure the child and family didn’t know that the shirts weren’t allowed. I’d support the rule change to address this type of issue. Don’t see how the shirt could be used for any type of advantages.

What situation in your example are you correcting with a change to the rules for 102 clubs and 17,000 swimmers? An 8&U wore a sunshirt (for a 25!) and the coaches, reps, clerk of course, and myriad timers all missed it before the kid swam? How is this any different than a kid showing up with the wrong cap, or prior to this year, the wrong suit?

What do you mean by this? You can wear can wear any suit in NVSL as long as it doesn’t have tie backs.

Until last year you couldn’t wear a suit with a logo of another team. For example you couldn’t wear a Potomac marlins suit in an Nvsl meet

Incorrect. You could always wear another team logo suit (long time rep here) but last year a few officials took it upon themselves to say you could not or misunderstood the rule. So a clairification was added.

DP
Yes, this is true. Thanks. I was going to post the same thing.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule actually applied to caps. And then some eager clerks of clerks took it upon themselves to enforce it for suits too. So they had to clarify the suit policy.

Is monitoring swim attire part of the clerk of course duties? Shouldn’t they be impartial and just seed/checkin the kids and walk them to their lanes?

There is no coaching in Clerk, so they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs. We ask our Clerk to check our swimmers for watches, PVS caps, etc. that the coaches or parents may have missed in the chaos. I’m not talking about getting involved in tech suit legality or official judging matters. It has nothing to do with being impartial or reporting to the ref, more just making sure someone didn’t forget to take off their watch or accidentally wore a club swim cap. In doing this, I think some clerks misunderstood the rule and also told kids they couldn’t wear a PVS-branded suit. Hence, the clarifying rule change.

Seems like there is disparity across NVSL on this. Our clerk of course did not do this, nor did visiting teams. We’re the team that had a DQ because a 8&u wore the sunshirt.

I didn’t mean to imply that it’s part of their official duties. Some teams ask their A Meet CoC to look out for watches, wrong caps, etc. and remind swimmers to remove them. That’s all. It’s like a parent yelling “goggles!” to a seven year old whose goggles are still perched on top of his head right before the start.

Our CoC does this for all in CoC regardless of team which is where the impartiality comes from. They also keep a stock of extra caps/goggles for the unexpected break or forgetful kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: we’re a team who had an 8&u DQed because the swimmer wore a sun shirt for the race during an A meet. I was surprised no one caught it before the child swam. I’m sure the child and family didn’t know that the shirts weren’t allowed. I’d support the rule change to address this type of issue. Don’t see how the shirt could be used for any type of advantages.

What situation in your example are you correcting with a change to the rules for 102 clubs and 17,000 swimmers? An 8&U wore a sunshirt (for a 25!) and the coaches, reps, clerk of course, and myriad timers all missed it before the kid swam? How is this any different than a kid showing up with the wrong cap, or prior to this year, the wrong suit?

What do you mean by this? You can wear can wear any suit in NVSL as long as it doesn’t have tie backs.

Until last year you couldn’t wear a suit with a logo of another team. For example you couldn’t wear a Potomac marlins suit in an Nvsl meet

Incorrect. You could always wear another team logo suit (long time rep here) but last year a few officials took it upon themselves to say you could not or misunderstood the rule. So a clairification was added.

DP
Yes, this is true. Thanks. I was going to post the same thing.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule actually applied to caps. And then some eager clerks of clerks took it upon themselves to enforce it for suits too. So they had to clarify the suit policy.

Is monitoring swim attire part of the clerk of course duties? Shouldn’t they be impartial and just seed/checkin the kids and walk them to their lanes?

There is no coaching in Clerk, so they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs. We ask our Clerk to check our swimmers for watches, PVS caps, etc. that the coaches or parents may have missed in the chaos. I’m not talking about getting involved in tech suit legality or official judging matters. It has nothing to do with being impartial or reporting to the ref, more just making sure someone didn’t forget to take off their watch or accidentally wore a club swim cap. In doing this, I think some clerks misunderstood the rule and also told kids they couldn’t wear a PVS-branded suit. Hence, the clarifying rule change.

Watches are legal in Nvsl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: we’re a team who had an 8&u DQed because the swimmer wore a sun shirt for the race during an A meet. I was surprised no one caught it before the child swam. I’m sure the child and family didn’t know that the shirts weren’t allowed. I’d support the rule change to address this type of issue. Don’t see how the shirt could be used for any type of advantages.

What situation in your example are you correcting with a change to the rules for 102 clubs and 17,000 swimmers? An 8&U wore a sunshirt (for a 25!) and the coaches, reps, clerk of course, and myriad timers all missed it before the kid swam? How is this any different than a kid showing up with the wrong cap, or prior to this year, the wrong suit?

What do you mean by this? You can wear can wear any suit in NVSL as long as it doesn’t have tie backs.

Until last year you couldn’t wear a suit with a logo of another team. For example you couldn’t wear a Potomac marlins suit in an Nvsl meet

Incorrect. You could always wear another team logo suit (long time rep here) but last year a few officials took it upon themselves to say you could not or misunderstood the rule. So a clairification was added.

DP
Yes, this is true. Thanks. I was going to post the same thing.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule actually applied to caps. And then some eager clerks of clerks took it upon themselves to enforce it for suits too. So they had to clarify the suit policy.

Is monitoring swim attire part of the clerk of course duties? Shouldn’t they be impartial and just seed/checkin the kids and walk them to their lanes?

There is no coaching in Clerk, so they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs. We ask our Clerk to check our swimmers for watches, PVS caps, etc. that the coaches or parents may have missed in the chaos. I’m not talking about getting involved in tech suit legality or official judging matters. It has nothing to do with being impartial or reporting to the ref, more just making sure someone didn’t forget to take off their watch or accidentally wore a club swim cap. In doing this, I think some clerks misunderstood the rule and also told kids they couldn’t wear a PVS-branded suit. Hence, the clarifying rule change.

Watches are legal in Nvsl.

They aren't legal in US swimming (timing devices that can be used for pacing) and there is no wording allowing them in NVSL, so for this purpose, yes, they are illegal. That being said, NVSL had clarified that they don't really care as there's no point in pacing a 50. This is only word of mouth at the moment, and I would anticipate the NVSL introducing a clarification rule this coming year as they did with the logo suits this past year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: we’re a team who had an 8&u DQed because the swimmer wore a sun shirt for the race during an A meet. I was surprised no one caught it before the child swam. I’m sure the child and family didn’t know that the shirts weren’t allowed. I’d support the rule change to address this type of issue. Don’t see how the shirt could be used for any type of advantages.

What situation in your example are you correcting with a change to the rules for 102 clubs and 17,000 swimmers? An 8&U wore a sunshirt (for a 25!) and the coaches, reps, clerk of course, and myriad timers all missed it before the kid swam? How is this any different than a kid showing up with the wrong cap, or prior to this year, the wrong suit?

What do you mean by this? You can wear can wear any suit in NVSL as long as it doesn’t have tie backs.

Until last year you couldn’t wear a suit with a logo of another team. For example you couldn’t wear a Potomac marlins suit in an Nvsl meet

Incorrect. You could always wear another team logo suit (long time rep here) but last year a few officials took it upon themselves to say you could not or misunderstood the rule. So a clairification was added.

DP
Yes, this is true. Thanks. I was going to post the same thing.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule actually applied to caps. And then some eager clerks of clerks took it upon themselves to enforce it for suits too. So they had to clarify the suit policy.

Is monitoring swim attire part of the clerk of course duties? Shouldn’t they be impartial and just seed/checkin the kids and walk them to their lanes?

There is no coaching in Clerk, so they’re the last line of defense to prevent avoidable DQs. We ask our Clerk to check our swimmers for watches, PVS caps, etc. that the coaches or parents may have missed in the chaos. I’m not talking about getting involved in tech suit legality or official judging matters. It has nothing to do with being impartial or reporting to the ref, more just making sure someone didn’t forget to take off their watch or accidentally wore a club swim cap. In doing this, I think some clerks misunderstood the rule and also told kids they couldn’t wear a PVS-branded suit. Hence, the clarifying rule change.

Watches are legal in Nvsl.

They aren't legal in US swimming (timing devices that can be used for pacing) and there is no wording allowing them in NVSL, so for this purpose, yes, they are illegal. That being said, NVSL had clarified that they don't really care as there's no point in pacing a 50. This is only word of mouth at the moment, and I would anticipate the NVSL introducing a clarification rule this coming year as they did with the logo suits this past year.

I would love to have them add it as a clarification rule, but NVSL did make a formal rule determination in 2019 about watches that they are allowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Because then every league will have different rules and there will be long email chains about what is ok and what swimmers should wear, and officials briefings will go on for 30 minutes with pointless what if questions.

A lot of what has been suggested here and in the MCSL thread ignores the fact that parent volunteers actually run these meets, they do not just happen. And we are at our limit of what we can do in June and July.

Exactly the point, a total tech suit ban at dual meets would make it easier on officials, team reps, and the league in general as there would be fewer distinctions on what is legal and what is not based on age.

Although I agree with a tech suit ban, this is not true. You're now making volunteers have to research which suit is and is not a tech suit. We had a team this summer complain that an under 13 year old was wearing a 'tech suit,' which wasted a bunch of volunteer time (he wasn't). Unless you mean ban all kneeskins and performance suits-- I don't hate that either but it's entirely different.

Sounds like a weak coach, rep, and ref. This is a 2 second question: 1) suit should have the FINA mark; 2) if it doesn't, then look at the seams to see if they are stitched or bonded.

Please do not do this.

If there is uncertainty ask the swimmer’s coach what the suit make is, and look it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Because then every league will have different rules and there will be long email chains about what is ok and what swimmers should wear, and officials briefings will go on for 30 minutes with pointless what if questions.

A lot of what has been suggested here and in the MCSL thread ignores the fact that parent volunteers actually run these meets, they do not just happen. And we are at our limit of what we can do in June and July.

Exactly the point, a total tech suit ban at dual meets would make it easier on officials, team reps, and the league in general as there would be fewer distinctions on what is legal and what is not based on age.

Although I agree with a tech suit ban, this is not true. You're now making volunteers have to research which suit is and is not a tech suit. We had a team this summer complain that an under 13 year old was wearing a 'tech suit,' which wasted a bunch of volunteer time (he wasn't). Unless you mean ban all kneeskins and performance suits-- I don't hate that either but it's entirely different.

Sounds like a weak coach, rep, and ref. This is a 2 second question: 1) suit should have the FINA mark; 2) if it doesn't, then look at the seams to see if they are stitched or bonded.

Please do not do this.

If there is uncertainty ask the swimmer’s coach what the suit make is, and look it up.

Why? It is incredibly easy to look at the seams and not in appropriate at all. Everyone is so ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Because then every league will have different rules and there will be long email chains about what is ok and what swimmers should wear, and officials briefings will go on for 30 minutes with pointless what if questions.

A lot of what has been suggested here and in the MCSL thread ignores the fact that parent volunteers actually run these meets, they do not just happen. And we are at our limit of what we can do in June and July.

Exactly the point, a total tech suit ban at dual meets would make it easier on officials, team reps, and the league in general as there would be fewer distinctions on what is legal and what is not based on age.

Although I agree with a tech suit ban, this is not true. You're now making volunteers have to research which suit is and is not a tech suit. We had a team this summer complain that an under 13 year old was wearing a 'tech suit,' which wasted a bunch of volunteer time (he wasn't). Unless you mean ban all kneeskins and performance suits-- I don't hate that either but it's entirely different.

Sounds like a weak coach, rep, and ref. This is a 2 second question: 1) suit should have the FINA mark; 2) if it doesn't, then look at the seams to see if they are stitched or bonded.

Please do not do this.

If there is uncertainty ask the swimmer’s coach what the suit make is, and look it up.

Why? It is incredibly easy to look at the seams and not in appropriate at all. Everyone is so ridiculous.

NP, and appropriate or not it isn't completely accurate because seam type is not definitive. Bonded v. sewn seems is only one (albeit the most common) factor in determining whether a tech suit is 12 and under legal or not. The other is fabric; 12 and under suits cannot have woven fabric that extends below the hips regardless of seam type. My DCs first tech suit was a Speedo LZR Racer Pro...sewn seams, but not 12u compliant because it's made of woven fabric. Yes, the vast majority of 12u compliant suits will have sewn seams visible at a glance but if you want to be consistent in enforcing the rule, a simple look isn't actually enough to differentiate woven from knit fabrics.

That said, I don't care much if NVSL imposes a tech suit ban in regular season meets or not. I think wearing them outside of relays/Divisionals/All Stars is ridiculous and our team culture strongly discourages it (we've even had past coaches who would absolutely have made a swimmer change) but I focus on my own kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Because then every league will have different rules and there will be long email chains about what is ok and what swimmers should wear, and officials briefings will go on for 30 minutes with pointless what if questions.

A lot of what has been suggested here and in the MCSL thread ignores the fact that parent volunteers actually run these meets, they do not just happen. And we are at our limit of what we can do in June and July.

Exactly the point, a total tech suit ban at dual meets would make it easier on officials, team reps, and the league in general as there would be fewer distinctions on what is legal and what is not based on age.

Although I agree with a tech suit ban, this is not true. You're now making volunteers have to research which suit is and is not a tech suit. We had a team this summer complain that an under 13 year old was wearing a 'tech suit,' which wasted a bunch of volunteer time (he wasn't). Unless you mean ban all kneeskins and performance suits-- I don't hate that either but it's entirely different.

Sounds like a weak coach, rep, and ref. This is a 2 second question: 1) suit should have the FINA mark; 2) if it doesn't, then look at the seams to see if they are stitched or bonded.

Please do not do this.

If there is uncertainty ask the swimmer’s coach what the suit make is, and look it up.

Why? It is incredibly easy to look at the seams and not in appropriate at all. Everyone is so ridiculous.

PP here.

This is not because of the intentions of the adult officials or reps.

Ask yourself how having a bunch of feels from the perspective of the swimmer and whether it makes them more or less likely to want to continue in the sport.

And all this for a hypothetical in a rec league meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Because then every league will have different rules and there will be long email chains about what is ok and what swimmers should wear, and officials briefings will go on for 30 minutes with pointless what if questions.

A lot of what has been suggested here and in the MCSL thread ignores the fact that parent volunteers actually run these meets, they do not just happen. And we are at our limit of what we can do in June and July.

Exactly the point, a total tech suit ban at dual meets would make it easier on officials, team reps, and the league in general as there would be fewer distinctions on what is legal and what is not based on age.

Although I agree with a tech suit ban, this is not true. You're now making volunteers have to research which suit is and is not a tech suit. We had a team this summer complain that an under 13 year old was wearing a 'tech suit,' which wasted a bunch of volunteer time (he wasn't). Unless you mean ban all kneeskins and performance suits-- I don't hate that either but it's entirely different.

Sounds like a weak coach, rep, and ref. This is a 2 second question: 1) suit should have the FINA mark; 2) if it doesn't, then look at the seams to see if they are stitched or bonded.

Please do not do this.

If there is uncertainty ask the swimmer’s coach what the suit make is, and look it up.

Why? It is incredibly easy to look at the seams and not in appropriate at all. Everyone is so ridiculous.

PP here.

This is not because of the intentions of the adult officials or reps.

Ask yourself how having a bunch of feels from the perspective of the swimmer and whether it makes them more or less likely to want to continue in the sport.

And all this for a hypothetical in a rec league meet.

Oops. “Bunch of adults inspecting the suit you are wearing”